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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:31:38 GMT -6
Alright, it sounds like I've talked myself into it, doesn't it! Yes plus if they don't do something special for you you can move them without taking a loss! Yeah I figured that with new prices here at over $4000 AUD a pair I can't really lose if I land them at $2500 AUD. And I know they are a sought after item over here.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:21:37 GMT -6
Alright, it sounds like I've talked myself into it, doesn't it!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:06:00 GMT -6
I used to use 4038's on piano all the time. Then I compared a pair of Michael Joly's modded 205's at 1/3rd the price to the 4038's and I actually preferred them - I immediately switched over to those. They are bigger than the Coles, and a bit more open on top and less fatiguing sounding on piano. Much better for my tastes. I haven't used the 4038's on OH for a long time. The 4038's certainly have their "thing" and if that's what you want, I'd say go for it. There are other ribbons that "approximate" (as you described it) that sound - but if you want exact.....well, you know that answer don't you. As we have some brighter ribbon options already I think the Coles will bring a different flavour to the table. Also I have found the ribbons that employ mechanical EQ tricks such as perforated baffle plates and various other techniques to enhance the hi end, and sometime cut the low end, (ie AEA N22) don't really sound right to my ears. I tend to find I like the sound of more open ribbon motor assemblies than those that are too mechanically EQ'd. I'd rather just apply some gentle shelving EQ to darker ribbon to brighten it up. Also I think the extremely thin ribbon (0.6 microns) used in the 4038 is another reason for its unique sound. Although it may be initially dark it can take quite a lot of high EQ which can bring out detail without getting harsh.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -6
That was the initial attraction for getting the delta: 4 band eq while mixing I am a singer songwriter who mostly does 1-2 track recording but sometimes drums so 6-8 but given the costs of the different converter options, I asked the question about the radar, as I didn't know much about them and there are 6 for sale currently. I am grateful for everything everyone contributed because I have learned a lot. The alesis and radar units are older, the symphony module is 6 months old: it is the simplest solution: plug and play 24 converters: done. I have not heard back from the one radar unit I was interested in or the apogee guy; so its a waiting game. I don't have to buy anything and can just start using the delta with my 8x8 symphony, (plus the 8200) learn and then decide later too. "... I don't have to buy anything and can just start using the delta with my 8x8 symphony, (plus the 8200) learn and then decide later too." Exactly!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:16:12 GMT -6
I was afraid someone was going to say that! Local Australian prices for a matched pair of 4038's with adapters is just over $4000 AUD. However I can buy them from the UK landed here tax paid for $2500 AUD.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:04:42 GMT -6
I'm close to buying a new matched pair of Coles 4038's which I can purchase for around $1800 USD. In the ribbon department we currently have a pair of Beyer M160's, a pair of AEA N22's (modified essentially to N8's), an AEA R84, a pair of Cascade Fathead II's (Lundahl transformers), a Cascade X15 Stereo (Lundahl Transformers), a pair of Rode NTR's and a Cascade Vinjet. We also have an AEA RPQ preamp and several Cloudlifters. I know there are plenty of other ribbon options these days but can anything else approximate 4038's especially on drum overheads? ie. Silky smooth cymbals? Our 'Lo-Fi' kit with Beyer M160 O/H's
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:47:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 17:47:04 GMT -6
understood bu I am pretty used to mixing in logic and that was the point of getting the delta to insert to the delta eq but be mixing in logic, the extra A/D converters were to allow up to 24 channels to link, so don't I need 3 adat ins to pass 24 channels from alesis to daw ? OK. Obviously this thread kind of went off on a tangent somewhat with the various options a hybrid setup can offer. So you are basically just using the console as outboard hardware EQ inserts.
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Radar
Sept 9, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 17:32:37 GMT -6
If you are mainly just recording yourself rather than running a commercial studio and regularly tracking bands inc. drums etc. and are likely to be transferring files into a DAW for editing regardless, then I think the case for paying the premium for a RADAR system is less compelling.
However if you would like to experiment with a standalone multitrack recorder (no computer involved) with an analog console to get a feel for things, then I would still consider a stock Alesis HD24XR (non modified with no additional computer interface) and see how it works for you.
That way you are only out of pocket for the Alesis which you can resell and recoup your outlay if you decide to go in a different direction.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 15:43:01 GMT -6
The big deal with RADAR when it first appeared was that it managed to convert many hard core analog tape guys to digital who had been resistant to DAW based recording because of...
1. The sound... 2. The non intuitive appearance of computer based recording... 3. The workflow.
Although RADAR used mostly the same converter chips as other manufacturers they took more care in the surrounding analog circuitry.
Also RADAR was designed to operate more like a multitrack tape recorder with the traditional physical controls that used buttons. ie. "PLAY", "RECORD", "FAST FORWARD", "REWIND", etc. So it provided a more familiar tactile style of recording than a computer based DAW.
Recording without staring at a computer screen can also help some focus more on the actual performance during tracking as the visual complexity of processing information on a screen can be quite distracting at times for many.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 8, 2017 17:16:17 GMT -6
I demoed the C-725 in my studio on a number of things and I was actually surprised just how versatile this mic sounded, on a lot of different sources with the different modes and patterns. The compression quality in sun mode is breathtaking. We actually ended up using it in "Wide Cardioid", Sun Mode on a Ancient Middle eastern String instrument about 4-5 feet up. And it really did something amazing. It's somewhat unique, but has qualities of their other microphones, plus a larger wider sound than any c12 or 251 I have heard. Though not unlike that tone, its way more broad in the stereo image. Very Large and Full sounding with overtones on the bottom end and softening on the top end. Its bright but super natural sounding. Sun mode softens the attack and adds a really unique vibe. Moon mode has a more pushed back mid range and goes even wider. Its more linear but raises the compression point higher. I actually think this mic would give any C12 or U47 mic a run for the money. Please enlighten me - what are "sun" and "moon" modes? I haven't encountered those terms before. I was given a mic once that someone found in a dumpster. It had setting called "uranus". I tried it but it sounded like arse.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 7, 2017 19:03:09 GMT -6
With two power supplies you should be ok if you wanted to max out the channel count. My CPC connectors turned up but in hindsight I should have ordered those Neutrik Speakon 8 ways. I've just rung a local dealer and they have the Neutriks in stock so I'll pick up some tomorrow. Just wondering how did you wire up yours? With only 8 connections rather than 9 (to allow for separate grounds) it appears two of the grounds will need to be commoned together. Is this what you did? I believe I just tied together the pins that had continuity... I can probably dig up some pics somewhere, but I **think** the below is how is played out. And one power supply didn't have pins 11 and 12 (no meters for that side of the board). 1 and 2 3 and 4 5 and 6 9 10 11 and 12 13 and 14 No worries. There are six grounds all tied together inside the console so 8 pins per connector are plenty after all. I picked up the Neutrik Speakon NL8M & NLT8FX connectors yesterday. I got the metal STX versions. What a night and day difference from the utterly crappy plastic CPC connectors originally fitted! I dunno what they were thinking when those were specified but I'm sure countless numbers have developed bad contacts.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 6, 2017 18:44:36 GMT -6
What about an Alesis HD24XR? Sometimes referred to as the "poor man's Radar". Either use it as a stand-alone recorder with its internal hard drive or as an AD/DA via ADAT. The XR versions sound great and are cheap for 24 tracks. They can be easily adapted to use SSD's. is there an easy way to take the tracks out of the Alesis and into a DAW? cheers Wiz Alesis made an adaptor as mentioned called the Fireport. It was an IDE to Firewire 400 adaptor which enabled transfer of files (Alesis FST) from the HD24 drive to a computer. You removed the drive caddy from the Alesis, plugged it into the Fireport and then connected the Fireport to your computer. However Alesis eventually ceased software support. A developer has since created HD24 Tools which is available free. ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/hd24tools/The Alesis Fireport adaptors are somewhat hard to find and are limited to Firewire (no USB) but there are other hard drive adapters that should work with HD24 Tools. If contemplating recording to the internal HDD then it's definately worthwhile picking up some SATA to IDE caddies and fitting an SSD. The other option is to use an ADAT to USB or FW interface and record directly into your DAW using the Alesis as an AD/DA. The HD24(XR) can operate as an AD/DA without any hard drives fitted. For more info there's the Alesis HD24 Yahoo Group here... groups.yahoo.com/group/hd24/No doubt a RADAR would be super duper but if you don't have the budget and are keen to dip your feet in some more old school analog console style multitracking then something like an HD24XR will give you a taste without breaking the bank. We like ours... both of them!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 6, 2017 17:43:33 GMT -6
What about an Alesis HD24XR? Sometimes referred to as the "poor man's Radar". Either use it as a stand-alone recorder with its internal hard drive or as an AD/DA via ADAT. The XR versions sound great and are cheap for 24 tracks. They can be easily adapted to use SSD's.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 6, 2017 11:05:24 GMT -6
mdmitch2 I shifted all the channel modules to the right in order to open up the left hand patchbay section to 19". By removing some blanking panels I managed to also create a second 19" wide section (13 RU) on the right where the producer's desk was located. It's easy to widen or narrow these bays by removing the screws that fix the vertical mounting strips to the cross rails and then sliding them to wherever you want them. Now that is what I like.... a "balanced" mixing console! (as in, symetrical... get it??!!) Yeah but I'm not sure how balanced the operator is!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 5, 2017 21:20:16 GMT -6
I finally found that picture of the console with the centre space you posted a while back. I vaguely thought it was your Neotek but it's an API. realgearonline.com/post/81894The Elite frame sizes we have would seem to be able to accomodate up to maybe another 12 channels with some shuffling at the expense of the producer's desk. This would make 44 mono channels plus 8 stereo channels giving a total of 60 channels all up. Of course one would need to add the additional metering and patchbay points. Anyway I'm just thinking out loud and I'll just stick to what I've got but I kind of like being able to fit some additional outboard into the console frame itself. Ah yeah I forgot I posted that.... I also did the math on adding more channels. My producers desk is 24", plus I have 3 blank spaces, so I could actually fit an extra 16 channels. It's pretty tempting..... With two power supplies you should be ok if you wanted to max out the channel count. My CPC connectors turned up but in hindsight I should have ordered those Neutrik Speakon 8 ways. I've just rung a local dealer and they have the Neutriks in stock so I'll pick up some tomorrow. Just wondering how did you wire up yours? With only 8 connections rather than 9 (to allow for separate grounds) it appears two of the grounds will need to be commoned together. Is this what you did?
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Post by rowmat on Sept 5, 2017 18:01:35 GMT -6
Nice! I might end up doing that with mine... although I think I might rather create a space in the center for a monitor and keyboard. Of course that would likely be a ton of work, as I'm sure the wiring would need to be lengthened. I finally found that picture of the console with the centre space you posted a while back. I vaguely thought it was your Neotek but it's an API. realgearonline.com/post/81894The Elite frame sizes we have would seem to be able to accomodate up to maybe another 12 channels with some shuffling at the expense of the producer's desk. This would make 44 mono channels plus 8 stereo channels giving a total of 60 channels all up. Of course one would need to add the additional metering and patchbay points. Anyway I'm just thinking out loud and I'll just stick to what I've got but I kind of like being able to fit some additional outboard into the console frame itself.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 5, 2017 16:24:29 GMT -6
mdmitch2 I shifted all the channel modules to the right in order to open up the left hand patchbay section to 19". By removing some blanking panels I managed to also create a second 19" wide section (13 RU) on the right where the producer's desk was located. It's easy to widen or narrow these bays by removing the screws that fix the vertical mounting strips to the cross rails and then sliding them to wherever you want them.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 5, 2017 8:04:08 GMT -6
Back in the day SD began with the team of Fagen, Becker, Gary Katz and Roger Nichols. They were probably responsible for selling more Hi-Fi systems than the actual sales guys in the stores.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 3, 2017 13:48:06 GMT -6
I saw a recent video clip of a live SD concert. I must say Walter didn't look well and it crossed my mind whether this news maybe not far away. R.I.P. Walter.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 1, 2017 2:51:02 GMT -6
Just something to think about, johneppstein , I'm fairly certain DB25s aren't going to be discontinued anytime soon. So let's just use the most robust ones we can find, Yeah, I know. It's a bit depressing. It's lucky that Apple doesn't control the form. I guess... I dunno maybe they're thinking about it.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 31, 2017 21:44:26 GMT -6
I would still like to hear it from the horses mouth why they are listed by AT USA as discontinued when in fact AT has never stopped manufacturing them.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 31, 2017 11:51:24 GMT -6
Yeah great on toms.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 30, 2017 22:36:27 GMT -6
... and a friendly reminder that they are still available new from Japan for under $250 USD www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_productid=69807811&rt=nc&_sop=15&isRefine=true&LH_ItemCondition=1000&sl_ready=trueI'm about to buy a second one to go with the one I bought 18 months ago. I keep seeing forum references to the ATM25 with posters saying how much they like the ATM25 but it's sad it's discontinued! In the US maybe but NOT in Japan. Does anyone know why Audio Technica USA states the ATM25 as being discontinued? Kinda curious to know the answer to that.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 30, 2017 21:54:37 GMT -6
Maybe whoever designed their website was told there was no budget to hire an English speaking proof reader so they just used Google translator? So we'll blame Google!
Don't get me started on predictive text!!
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Post by rowmat on Aug 30, 2017 21:25:21 GMT -6
I hope their products are better than their "EHGLISH" It's definitely better than your Chinese. No doubt!
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