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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:04:42 GMT -6
I'm close to buying a new matched pair of Coles 4038's which I can purchase for around $1800 USD. In the ribbon department we currently have a pair of Beyer M160's, a pair of AEA N22's (modified essentially to N8's), an AEA R84, a pair of Cascade Fathead II's (Lundahl transformers), a Cascade X15 Stereo (Lundahl Transformers), a pair of Rode NTR's and a Cascade Vinjet. We also have an AEA RPQ preamp and several Cloudlifters. I know there are plenty of other ribbon options these days but can anything else approximate 4038's especially on drum overheads? ie. Silky smooth cymbals? Our 'Lo-Fi' kit with Beyer M160 O/H's
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 18:10:45 GMT -6
Just do it !
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Post by c0rtland on Sept 9, 2017 18:14:55 GMT -6
Just my opinion. Buy the 4038's.
From your list I have the 160's and the r84's. Coles are different enough from those. Completely different in every way from the 160's. And different enough from the r84 to justify having 4038's. Thicker creamier than the r84. r84 sounds more mid heavy in a retro way compared to the 4038. I would be able to pick out the 4038 blind from an r84 every time.
Never heard the other mics you listed.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 18:16:12 GMT -6
I was afraid someone was going to say that! Local Australian prices for a matched pair of 4038's with adapters is just over $4000 AUD. However I can buy them from the UK landed here tax paid for $2500 AUD.
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Post by drbill on Sept 9, 2017 18:34:22 GMT -6
I used to use 4038's on piano all the time. Then I compared a pair of Michael Joly's modded 205's at 1/3rd the price to the 4038's and I actually preferred them - I immediately switched over to those. They are bigger than the Coles, and a bit more open on top and less fatiguing sounding on piano. Much better for my tastes. I haven't used the 4038's on OH for a long time. The 4038's certainly have their "thing" and if that's what you want, I'd say go for it. There are other ribbons that "approximate" (as you described it) that sound - but if you want exact.....well, you know that answer don't you.
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Post by Bender on Sept 9, 2017 19:02:50 GMT -6
If you can swing it, then batter up!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:06:00 GMT -6
I used to use 4038's on piano all the time. Then I compared a pair of Michael Joly's modded 205's at 1/3rd the price to the 4038's and I actually preferred them - I immediately switched over to those. They are bigger than the Coles, and a bit more open on top and less fatiguing sounding on piano. Much better for my tastes. I haven't used the 4038's on OH for a long time. The 4038's certainly have their "thing" and if that's what you want, I'd say go for it. There are other ribbons that "approximate" (as you described it) that sound - but if you want exact.....well, you know that answer don't you. As we have some brighter ribbon options already I think the Coles will bring a different flavour to the table. Also I have found the ribbons that employ mechanical EQ tricks such as perforated baffle plates and various other techniques to enhance the hi end, and sometime cut the low end, (ie AEA N22) don't really sound right to my ears. I tend to find I like the sound of more open ribbon motor assemblies than those that are too mechanically EQ'd. I'd rather just apply some gentle shelving EQ to darker ribbon to brighten it up. Also I think the extremely thin ribbon (0.6 microns) used in the 4038 is another reason for its unique sound. Although it may be initially dark it can take quite a lot of high EQ which can bring out detail without getting harsh.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:21:37 GMT -6
Alright, it sounds like I've talked myself into it, doesn't it!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 19:28:33 GMT -6
Alright, it sounds like I've talked myself into it, doesn't it! Yes plus if they don't do something special for you you can move them without taking a loss!
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 19:31:38 GMT -6
Alright, it sounds like I've talked myself into it, doesn't it! Yes plus if they don't do something special for you you can move them without taking a loss! Yeah I figured that with new prices here at over $4000 AUD a pair I can't really lose if I land them at $2500 AUD. And I know they are a sought after item over here.
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 22:08:57 GMT -6
Yes, buy them but be careful with them. They are rather fragile and not cheap to re-ribbon (esp in Australia I suspect).
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Post by rowmat on Sept 9, 2017 22:14:55 GMT -6
Yes, buy them but be careful with them. They are rather fragile and not cheap to re-ribbon (esp in Australia I suspect). That was my initial concern but I found someone in Sydney who does Coles ribbon mic repairs. He charges around $150 AUD ($120 USD) to replace the ribbons in 4038's.
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 22:25:23 GMT -6
Yes, buy them but be careful with them. They are rather fragile and not cheap to re-ribbon (esp in Australia I suspect). That was my initial concern but I found someone in Sydney who does Coles ribbon mic repairs. He charges around $150 AUD ($120 USD) to replace the ribbons in 4038's. That is awesome. You're in the clear. I once had a session where I broke them both out and they were BOTH distorting and bad sounding on drum tracking. Talk about a bummer. I had way fewer mics at the time so I didn't have many options except to contact Wes Dooley and drive my mics to Portland to have his man re-ribbon them the next day. I think with gas and all I was out like $600 . I'm super careful with them now. I think it was Leslie tracking that may have done it to them. Still hurts to think about.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 22:26:25 GMT -6
That was my initial concern but I found someone in Sydney who does Coles ribbon mic repairs. He charges around $150 AUD ($120 USD) to replace the ribbons in 4038's. That is awesome. You're in the clear. I once had a session where I broke them both out and they were BOTH distorting and bad sounding on drum tracking. Talk about a bummer. I had way fewer mics at the time so I didn't have many options except to contact Wes Dooley and drive my mics to Portland to have his man re-ribbon them the next day. I think with gas and all I was out like $600 . I'm super careful with them now. I think it was Leslie tracking that may have done it to them. Still hurts to think about. Ouch !
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Post by rowmat on Sept 10, 2017 5:19:24 GMT -6
That was my initial concern but I found someone in Sydney who does Coles ribbon mic repairs. He charges around $150 AUD ($120 USD) to replace the ribbons in 4038's. That is awesome. You're in the clear. I once had a session where I broke them both out and they were BOTH distorting and bad sounding on drum tracking. Talk about a bummer. I had way fewer mics at the time so I didn't have many options except to contact Wes Dooley and drive my mics to Portland to have his man re-ribbon them the next day. I think with gas and all I was out like $600 . I'm super careful with them now. I think it was Leslie tracking that may have done it to them. Still hurts to think about. Sounds expensive but I think Wes Dooley charges a premium on top of the normal price for a fast turnaround.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 10, 2017 5:21:16 GMT -6
Coles 4038's through a Sebatron VMP4000e on O/H's.
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Post by drumrec on Sept 10, 2017 5:51:39 GMT -6
I've been happy with those from day 1. As spindrift says, treat them with caution. I have "pop filter" in front of them when I close micking amplifier or drums. Lovely mics
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Post by rowmat on Sept 11, 2017 14:30:04 GMT -6
I did!
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Post by ulriggribbons on Sept 11, 2017 14:36:00 GMT -6
There's no substitute for the 4038 imo. I've been repairing them since 2009, and the sound of a freshly ribboned 4038 always makes me smile repair.ulrigg.com/coles-4038/Congrats! ju
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Post by rowmat on Sept 11, 2017 17:25:11 GMT -6
There's no substitute for the 4038 imo. I've been repairing them since 2009, and the sound of a freshly ribboned 4038 always makes me smile repair.ulrigg.com/coles-4038/Congrats! ju That seems to be the issue... "no substitute"!
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Post by ulriggribbons on Sept 11, 2017 18:27:00 GMT -6
Every tool for it's purpose!
There's lot's of room in the mic corral for other ribbon microphones =)
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Post by rowmat on Sept 11, 2017 18:40:35 GMT -6
Every tool for it's purpose! There's lot's of room in the mic corral for other ribbon microphones =) Once the Coles arrive that will make 14 ribbon mics in our locker including a Beyer M360 that needs a re-ribbon. So we have plenty of 'tools'. The catch is always learning new ways to use them!
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Post by drsax on Sept 12, 2017 8:20:31 GMT -6
Seems like you've made up your mind. Great choice. I just got a pair and they are amazing. On drum overheads they upped my already great results considerably
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Post by rowmat on Sept 12, 2017 14:22:55 GMT -6
They've just been shipped from the UK! They should arrive in about 10-12 days.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 18, 2017 22:31:34 GMT -6
I received an email from the shipping logistics company handling the importation of my pair of Coles 4038's. I had to authorise them to clear the shipment and agree to all charges. I said I wasn't in the habit of agreeing to anything without knowing how much it was going to cost me upfront. In the past I usually received a phonecall from the shipping agent quoting me the figure over the phone. However this time they wanted me to agree to all charges before they had provided a total but when I asked for a figure they just kept repeating I had to agree to all charges still without providing a total. Finally after several phone calls and emails I got the figures... $240 GST (Goods and Services Tax) $120 Government Import Duty $83 Customs Importation Fee $95 Customs Clearance Processing Fee (The fee to process all the above fees!) Total $538.00 That's about $200 more than it would have been about a year ago!
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