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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 1:25:56 GMT -6
After being in storage for almost two years the Neotek is finally being brought back to life. It should have come with two power supplies but I only received one so I am looking at a custom GRS supply.   |
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Post by reddirt on Jul 13, 2017 2:30:23 GMT -6
Looks beautiful, but where to start?
Cheers, Ross
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 2:45:44 GMT -6
Looks beautiful, but where to start? Cheers, Ross Master section motherboard has had the molex sockets replaced with male headers and short female <> female molex looms. The molex socket terminals on the master section motherboard become loose and develop intermittents. That job is finshed. Power supply and channel strip testing is next. TT patchbay sockets are heavily oxidised and need cleaning. I have cleaned a couple of them already and they came up good. I'm also stripping the black paint off the timber and will refinish it with clear satin urethane. |
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Post by jrasia on Jul 13, 2017 5:44:35 GMT -6
Nice! Always wanted a neotek. This is an original Elite or the mk2 version? Would love to see some shots of the input and master pcb. I think they are loaded with typical 5532 and tl72 correct? Thought mike was doing something clever with these parts in the layout but never understood what exactly. Lots of transistors as well.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 6:26:55 GMT -6
Nice! Always wanted a neotek. This is an original Elite or the mk2 version? Would love to see some shots of the input and master pcb. I think they are loaded with typical 5532 and tl72 correct? Thought mike was doing something clever with these parts in the layout but never understood what exactly. Lots of transistors as well. It's an original Elite. Apart from the later MK2 chassis which used a mostly metal frame versus the partial timber type in the earlier Elites, along with a few component changes (which were mainly transistor changes I think due to obsolescence) there's very little difference between the first Elite and the MK2 AFAIK. I'm pretty sure the circuit topology and channel PCB's didn't change although I believe the master section motherboard PCB connections were updated for improved reliability. Most of the IC's are TL07xx series many of which are used in conjunction with discrete transistors in sort of a hybrid fashion which apparently allows the IC's to operate at fairly low gains which helps the sonics. There's not many 5532's at all from memory at least on the mono channel strips but I think the use of this hybrid FET opamp/discrete transistor output topology is the main reason for the lack of 5532's. Apart from the EQ pots most of the electronic components are readily available 'off the shelf' parts. Mine has had a few mods including some balanced inserts on the stereo bus and some larger caps and upgraded quad opamps in the eight stereo channels. I'm planning on upgrading a few of the channel EQ's with some different opamps and nicer caps to see if there's an improvement over the standard EQ's. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2017 7:15:42 GMT -6
Oh those old Neoteks can be a rats nest ! Good luck you will love it when it's done, yes it's worth it I'm staying tuned!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jul 13, 2017 8:05:57 GMT -6
Lemme know if you have issues with your power supply -- I completely rebuilt one of mine, and I think still have the mouser BOM.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 16:10:49 GMT -6
Lemme know if you have issues with your power supply -- I completely rebuilt one of mine, and I think still have the mouser BOM. Thanks for the offer but I don't think I'll be rebuilding it. The Neotek supply the console came with has a few hotspots on the PCB. I have done a voltage test with no load and the voltages looked okay but of course that can change under load. However the board itself has two power connections on the rear which have both been removed and the internal wiring has two seperate power feeds going to each half of the board of which the pairs have been twisted together and taped up in order to run the console off a single supply. This has not been done at the factory. I have had a few conflicting opinions whether or not my console requires one or two supplies. It has 32 mono channels, 8 stereo channels PLUS VCA faders which have quite a lot of IC's on the VCA fader PCB's. Even if a single supply was just barely adequate to run a 40 channel non VCA Elite there is a bunch of extra VCA circuitry to power and this is the issue with a single supply IMO. There is no doubt that the console did have two power supplies at some point but I didn't receive a second supply. I am now considering the GRS supply as rebuilding the Neotek supply I have won't achieve much if the console needs two of them to power it properly. The GRS has more than double the capacity of the Neotek supply. I think I learnt my lesson about buying a console sight unseen along dealing with unscrupulous business operators. Unfortunately in Australia there's almost zero options over here to purchase this kind of gear. I believe my Elite is only one of four Elites in the entire country. Compare that with hundreds in the US and that's why you never see them for sale over here. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2017 16:28:15 GMT -6
I would talk to Jim Williams about a custom PSU using Powerone modules might be less money and quieter!
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 16:38:50 GMT -6
I would talk to Jim Williams about a custom PSU using Powerone modules might be less money and quiete I did consider gutting the original case and fitting Power One type modules into the Neotek case but it became obvious needing five that they would not fit and I would need a new case along with all the other hardware so I quickly abandoned that idea and then looked around at what other options were available and found GRS. The GRS supply uses Power One type (Bel Power/Condor) modules already. There's actually five individual modules fitted inside the case. +18 Volts DC at 16 Amps (console audio positive rails) - 18Volts DC at 16 Amps (console audio negative rails) +48 Volts DC at 0.5 Amps (console phantom power) +36 Volts DC at 5 Amps (meter functions) - 25 Volts DC at 5 Amps (console logic functions) Audio Power Rails can be factory adjusted to provide 15 Volts DC, 17.5 Volts, 22 Volts or 24 Volts for the Audio Power Rails Shipping weight is 81.00 lbs. Price is $1500 USD and I doubt if you could build one much cheaper taking the additional parts, case, fans switches etc and labor into account. www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-SUPPLY-FOR-NEOTEK-ELITE-II-III-RECORDING-CONSOLE-HI-POWER-UPGRADE/301509188936 |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2017 16:58:53 GMT -6
I would talk to Jim Williams about a custom PSU using Powerone modules might be less money and quiete I did consider gutting the original case and fitting Power One type modules into the Neotek case but it became obvious needing five that they would not fit and I would need a new case along with all the other hardware so I quickly abandoned that idea and then looked around at what other options were available and found GRS. The GRS supply uses Power One type (Bel Power/Condor) modules already. There's actually five individual modules fitted inside the case. +18 Volts DC at 16 Amps (console audio positive rails) - 18Volts DC at 16 Amps (console audio negative rails) +48 Volts DC at 0.5 Amps (console phantom power) +36 Volts DC at 5 Amps (meter functions) - 25 Volts DC at 5 Amps (console logic functions) Audio Power Rails can be factory adjusted to provide 15 Volts DC, 17.5 Volts, 22 Volts or 24 Volts for the Audio Power Rails Shipping weight is 81.00 lbs. Price is $1500 USD and I doubt if you could build one much cheaper taking the additional parts, case, fans switches etc and labor into account. www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-SUPPLY-FOR-NEOTEK-ELITE-II-III-RECORDING-CONSOLE-HI-POWER-UPGRADE/301509188936View AttachmentI think Jim has built similar supplies that don't need a fan always nice if you can get by without a fan ! |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jul 13, 2017 18:00:29 GMT -6
Both of my power supplies worked fine for a few weeks when I first commissioned the console.... then they both developed issues. The console pretty much worked 100% when I got it, and started developing issues over the next few months -- nothing too difficult to fix though.
Also, I have the same exact configuration -- 32 mono, 8 stereo, and vca automation. However, I bypassed the vca fader circuitry, which was really easy to do with the penny and giles faders.
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Post by jrasia on Jul 13, 2017 18:24:04 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like Eric said.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 19:08:00 GMT -6
Both of my power supplies worked fine for a few weeks when I first commissioned the console.... then they both developed issues. The console pretty much worked 100% when I got it, and started developing issues over the next few months -- nothing too difficult to fix though. Also, I have the same exact configuration -- 32 mono, 8 stereo, and vca automation. However, I bypassed the vca fader circuitry, which was really easy to do with the penny and giles faders. My faders have "VCA - BYPASS" switches fitted on the lower right area of the fader plates. (see pic) I don't know whether the fader is still functional with the VCA's bypassed or if it ceases to work and simply defaults to unity gain. Typical VCA faders are linear while non VCA use a log taper. I would have thought bypassing your VCA's without changing to a log fader would screw up the fader taper ratio function? When I first enquired about the console the broker told me it was not fitted with VCA's and had Penny & Giles faders. When it arrived it was fitted with VCA's and ALP's faders.   |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 13, 2017 19:16:20 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like tony said. Did you eventually get your supply from GRS in the end or did you cancel your order? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2017 19:27:15 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like tony said. I'm not sure how I should feel being confused with Tony😎 |
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Post by jrasia on Jul 13, 2017 20:27:27 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like tony said. Did you eventually get your supply from GRS in the end or did you cancel your order? Eventually yes. I shutter every time I turn it on though. My studio was out of business for all those months because of their delays, downed phones, downed email and empty promises. A buying experience I never want to relive. I hope if you go down that road that they are under new owners or got their shit together. Too bad as the techs who build them seem decent. |
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Post by jrasia on Jul 13, 2017 20:31:53 GMT -6
Be wary of GRS. I had huge issues with them getting my psu. Good initial contact then months and months and months of no contact whatsoever. I would get jim to build one like tony said. I'm not sure how I should feel being confused with Tony😎 Lol. Oops, Sorry Eric. Hmm, wonder how tony feels? |
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2017 21:17:11 GMT -6
I'm not sure how I should feel being confused with Tony😎 Lol. Oops, Sorry Eric. Hmm, wonder how tony feels? The only logical answer is honored 😎 |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jul 13, 2017 21:19:23 GMT -6
Both of my power supplies worked fine for a few weeks when I first commissioned the console.... then they both developed issues. The console pretty much worked 100% when I got it, and started developing issues over the next few months -- nothing too difficult to fix though. Also, I have the same exact configuration -- 32 mono, 8 stereo, and vca automation. However, I bypassed the vca fader circuitry, which was really easy to do with the penny and giles faders. My faders have "VCA - BYPASS" switches fitted on the lower right area of the fader plates. (see pic) I don't know whether the fader is still functional with the VCA's bypassed or if it ceases to work and simply defaults to unity gain. Typical VCA faders are linear while non VCA use a log taper. I would have thought bypassing your VCA's without changing to a log fader would screw up the fader taper ratio function? When I first enquired about the console the broker told me it was not fitted with VCA's and had Penny & Giles faders. When it arrived it was fitted with VCA's and ALP's faders. Ah yeah, different VCA system. Mine is from Audio Kinetics w/Valley People VCAs-- it has a bunch of colorful buttons, as well as a bypass. However, the bypass switches were flaky, so it was easier to just wire the P&G faders directly to the channels. I guess I was lucky, because mine has standard log taper P&G 3220 faders (except the stereo channels are ALPS).  |
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Post by subspace on Jul 14, 2017 1:22:48 GMT -6
Are power supplies rare in Australia? I bought an old Trimix off eBay that was located in Sydney about 16 years ago, little nerve wracking as I'm in Arizona. They crated it up, put it on a flight from Sydney and I drove to the airport and picked it up. It was actually two 24 module frames that could be linked with two separate supplies. I hooked it up with the separate supplies and just the audio busses tied together, worked like a champ. Eventually I pared down to using just one frame and picked up a couple Acopian Gold Box supplies on auction to replace the supply on the audio rails. The Acopians had about three times the current capacity of the stock supply, cost me about $30 for the pair.
A month or two ago I was at the electronics shop picking up some connectors and had a poke around their surplus bench supplies. There was an Acopian rack frame with the same two Gold Box models plus two 8V models for $50. Much fancier rack frame than my Gold Boxes just piled up, so now I'm all pro looking and have the other pair for spares.
What's the voltage/current rating on the audio rails of the current supply?
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Post by rowmat on Jul 15, 2017 1:54:42 GMT -6
Are power supplies rare in Australia? I bought an old Trimix off eBay that was located in Sydney about 16 years ago, little nerve wracking as I'm in Arizona. They crated it up, put it on a flight from Sydney and I drove to the airport and picked it up. It was actually two 24 module frames that could be linked with two separate supplies. I hooked it up with the separate supplies and just the audio busses tied together, worked like a champ. Eventually I pared down to using just one frame and picked up a couple Acopian Gold Box supplies on auction to replace the supply on the audio rails. The Acopians had about three times the current capacity of the stock supply, cost me about $30 for the pair. A month or two ago I was at the electronics shop picking up some connectors and had a poke around their surplus bench supplies. There was an Acopian rack frame with the same two Gold Box models plus two 8V models for $50. Much fancier rack frame than my Gold Boxes just piled up, so now I'm all pro looking and have the other pair for spares. What's the voltage/current rating on the audio rails of the current supply? Power supplies for consoles are not that common here. At least to purchase aftermarket. My Neotek Elite is one of a total of only four Elites in the entire country AFAIK. Compare that with probably several hundred in the US. I think the Neotek supply it came with is maybe 6 or 7amps per 18 volt audio rail. The GRS is rated at 16amps per rail. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 15, 2017 5:28:33 GMT -6
My faders have "VCA - BYPASS" switches fitted on the lower right area of the fader plates. (see pic) I don't know whether the fader is still functional with the VCA's bypassed or if it ceases to work and simply defaults to unity gain. Typical VCA faders are linear while non VCA use a log taper. I would have thought bypassing your VCA's without changing to a log fader would screw up the fader taper ratio function? When I first enquired about the console the broker told me it was not fitted with VCA's and had Penny & Giles faders. When it arrived it was fitted with VCA's and ALP's faders. Ah yeah, different VCA system. Mine is from Audio Kinetics w/Valley People VCAs-- it has a bunch of colorful buttons, as well as a bypass. However, the bypass switches were flaky, so it was easier to just wire the P&G faders directly to the channels. I guess I was lucky, because mine has standard log taper P&G 3220 faders (except the stereo channels are ALPS). Interesting the P&G's are audio tapers with the VCA's. I wonder if the associated VCA circuitry is rescaling the log taper to approximate a linear taper? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 15, 2017 7:09:35 GMT -6
Ah yeah, different VCA system. Mine is from Audio Kinetics w/Valley People VCAs-- it has a bunch of colorful buttons, as well as a bypass. However, the bypass switches were flaky, so it was easier to just wire the P&G faders directly to the channels. I guess I was lucky, because mine has standard log taper P&G 3220 faders (except the stereo channels are ALPS). Interesting the P&G's are audio tapers with the VCA's. I wonder if the associated VCA circuitry is rescaling the log taper to approximate a linear taper? VCA taper faders are closer to audio taper than linear. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 15, 2017 7:20:12 GMT -6
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