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Post by popmann on Dec 21, 2017 11:48:00 GMT -6
Initial attempt to get the extender to work was "nope"....in Cubase (where both have always worked together as designed), it requires you add a second MCU....on the other MIDI port....this has no setting for multiple MCUs--just this "discover Mackie devices" button that as far as I can tell does nothing when you click in.....OSX. I could change the port to the extender, and that would come alive and the main unit goes "out"....but, I even tried sending on the one port and returning on the other, thinking maybe they wanted it to kind of loop through all the MCUs to be able to "discover"....nada.
Will look at it later. Including downloading the 4.3 update....
You NEED the 16 faders (or 12, but no one makes a 12 fader surface)....with 32c. IMO. Cubase, it's nice, but I can set up my mixer views around having 8 to a large degree to get by....but, in 32c where you have 12 busses that are the FX auxes as well....you need all 12 or you're hitting "Busses....bank" just ot get to your vocal reverb return.
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Post by popmann on Dec 20, 2017 17:38:35 GMT -6
My extender is broken (actually just out of calibration) so I'm limping on the main unit. I would NOT assume that. Harrison seems to put in very controller specific remote templates--designed for the specific hardware. So, yes--24 channels of MCU have always been "supposed to work", but they don't have any at Harrison to test--just the main unit. Reports have been a mixed bag. I've thought about pulling my extender out just to see if it will work....I mean--it's just that some of the faders are out of calibration, thus I can't have it in production....it DOES "work"....you know, if you're not picky about levels being the same session to session.
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Post by popmann on Dec 20, 2017 0:45:46 GMT -6
Neat, indeed. Also of note, they've apparently got the as yet shipping Presonus Faderport 16 in there ready to go, as well.
I really like how they did the buss assignments with the push of the rotary....which is how they did it for the MCU--means I can import a project full of tracks, and within a few minutes have all my drums routed not to the master but the DrumSub....bass to bass sub....etc....and from there spill out. The only incomplete bit there is that the on screen "spill" of the busses doesn't fall to the faders. All they'd really have to do is put in a "match on screen channels" mode. Then you spill the drum bus, and all the drums are on the faders. Just like I've manually configured in Cubase for as long as I've had MCUs. It was like they made an app for how I've worked for a long time.
I bought 32c, FWIW. Lots of good. One of my fave aspects of the whole thing? Lock edit mode. Brilliant. if I touch the arrange window 9000 times, maybe ONE of those I intend to slide something forward or backwards in time....and yet I DO it plenty by accident....undo....it's gotten to where I literally put my drum tracks into protect mode (in other DAWs) which makes for pain if I want to touch them for ANYTHING....just locking horizontal movement is genius.
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Post by popmann on Dec 19, 2017 14:47:20 GMT -6
PCI/e audio.
Implement that....and I bet you'll see all the rest of my seemingly absurd recommendations on this subject fall into place.
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Post by popmann on Dec 18, 2017 17:51:45 GMT -6
That blows. I can't it surprises me. Software companies are horrible about transfers. UA is now officially a software company. The transformation is now complete.
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Post by popmann on Dec 16, 2017 22:43:18 GMT -6
These don't even tempt me. A Kaby Lake i7 iMac with a TB NVME drive will walk up and down on these for virtual instrument playing-if someone has issues with audio production, on anything, I'm calling shenanigans and/or you're doing something really REALLY differently than I ever have....THAT is your "overpriced" temptation in Apple computers for me. I think an pimped iMac is about $3300. The same hardware in blah box costs about $1500'ish. But, that's not reatil--that's the problem with everyone quoting those--Mac users don't want to build machines. To buy a PC with similar specs at retail--be it sweetwater or ADK or whatever, would cost nearly as much and Apple's ARE more elegant...in a lot of ways.
So, if you can build--it's the building that saves the money. You can put OS X on it if you want. But, someone lusting after ECC RAM and Xeon processors for music production shouldn't likely build anything. Certainly not without the assistance of someone who knows what the purpose calls for....which is PCIe audio hardware....fast, low latency RAM, and a CPU with a screaming TURBO speed, particularly if you're a Logic user where they put the whole input chain and everything it's routed to on ONE core whether you have 2 or 24.
But, then--I don't have an issue using Windows. I can't ignore the long term TOC...so, a Hack now....with having maybe install Windows on it in a few years (when you'd really probably have to replace your Apple hardware anyway to run the latest and greatest)....isn't really a bad proposition.
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Post by popmann on Dec 14, 2017 20:31:24 GMT -6
That old article is how I've done it my whole time in Cubase. You don't understand what I'm complaining about. What I posted, is the way you export tracks...PCM files, without regard to mixer settings. The equivalent of "consolidate tracks" in ProTools or "Export Tracks as Audio Files" in LPX or "stem export" in Mixbuss--with both Logic and Mixbus having options on export to ignore the channel and plug in DSP.
I feel like you didn't even read it:
There's actually another workaround since you have to reset the mixer anyway(something they don't mention-and is ALL I was complaining about), which is to select all your mono tracks and assign them to a mono group....then without selecting "mono down mix" stereo will output to stereo and mono to mono.
I have a fundamental philosophical issue with exporting "tracks" with any DSP done. The only way to do that via "export Audio Mixdown" is to actually go into the mixer and bypass everything....hard pan everything (so no pan law volume changes)....bypass plug ins....and if you want the one pass solution, you assign all the mono tracks to a mono bus....THEN export audio mix down and batch it. It's the most NOT automatic batch process EVER!!
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Post by popmann on Dec 14, 2017 14:21:49 GMT -6
No prob. The first things I test about DAWs is import/export and timeline compensation. Call them "my issues". Don't get me started on the geek wood I got when I ran the Mixbus demo and the first thing they did was instruct me to plug in analog audio cables and calibrate the system for sample accurate compensation...."where's my wallet?"
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Post by popmann on Dec 13, 2017 17:25:32 GMT -6
Honestly--I use so little automation, I've not even turned anything on to see the differences. If I have 5 or 10 mostly minor moves in a mix, that's "heavily automated" for me. I do remember they made some overhaul thing where they allowed "blank spaces" that were ambiguous in the automation lane, and I thought : that's a mindfuck waiting to happen....
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Post by popmann on Dec 12, 2017 23:14:47 GMT -6
I never replace drums-it messes up the feel, which I like to leave solely in the hands of the drummer to mess up. ...I add mics with similar sounding samples. And it's just doing the kick/snare. Basically, it's adding a snare bottom mic, which isn't important overall, compared to the kick out mic and the room mics I add. If I were doing it "for reals", I'd have done the toms in the room mics....but, it was a quick thing. This is all quicker AND better than trying to generate digital ambience via reverb. I was really anticipating SD3 being amazing for this, since it has like 12 room mics of different makes and distances--and Massenberg put a subkick on all the kicks as well as the typical 47 outside...but, it's all in a REALLY big room. I've just gotten nothing from it I liked. I even tried some Logic specific ways to tighten up the sample timing...but, nope...it always just sounded not natural. Not connected.
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Post by popmann on Dec 12, 2017 22:12:44 GMT -6
Made the linked file not huge so Dropbox's preview works.
But, wanted to point out, since I wasn't verbose earlier--you wanted to know what drum sample tech would sound like on your stuff...was the reason I posted publicly. I wouldn't use SD3, while it's sitting right here on the machine, because it's been terrible for the purpose/methods I employ to beef up "home studio" drums. I would hope you trust my ears on that...I can run the same thing with SD3, but it will sound not natural. Promise.
There's no reason for a Logic user to use the Tracker element in SD3, IMO. That's for people using a DAW that doesn't have built in capabilities for drum "replacement". And even there--while I mixed this in 32c, I did the sample augmentation in Cubase first. cubase because I'm back on the Windows machine--I've done it for clients in LPX may times. I never really noticed one being particularly better or worse at it. Functionally, they seem to end up with the same'ish results.
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Post by popmann on Dec 12, 2017 12:03:52 GMT -6
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Post by popmann on Dec 11, 2017 18:05:54 GMT -6
Music Memos is Apple's app for doing this very thing. it's the only reason I bought Logic, which I otherwise find a frustrating and half functional piece of kit.
I don't know what you're asking about overdubs, really--Audio in linear. Tempo mapping is just mostly for MIDI....although, Apple IS trying to make their Flex system turn audio into MIDI--which is honestly why I've bailed. But, that's neither hear nor there, I guess....
I just play my song....start to finish....MM makes a tempo map and drum part, import to LPX where I can edit the tempo map and give more specific instructions to the Drummer Track.
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Post by popmann on Dec 11, 2017 15:29:34 GMT -6
I don't see the point in trying to create a tempo map before hand. I would either play it to a click'd tempo....or play it human as you would naturally play it and have Logic map it for you.
I've mapped human tempo forever....but, the only real use for it is so that you can do midi sequencing, which YOU are with the Logic Drummer....but, you asked about recording bands--they play, you record them. Why would I tempo map it? A quick tapped average will get all my delay lines close enough for human beings' timing....markers can navigate sections to jump around the song non linearly. What does having a tempo map add?
That said....it's fairly quick and mostly automatic in modern versions of Logic and Cubase....Music Memos actually does a better job--I'm a little pissed at Apple for that. I don't want to sit in my studio futzing with my PHONE....why can't I record into Logic and do the same thing? And mind you--you can DO it from inside Logic, but it's mechanism and end result is different when it comes from Music Memos. I've done it a lot....and tried all kinds of different ways inside Logic to replicate it.
Anyway--since what you want is the Logic Drummer to play along--just record in Music Memos, make sure it IDs the downbeat properly, and import that to Logic and throw away the useless MIDI bass track.
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Post by popmann on Dec 9, 2017 12:36:13 GMT -6
I think they sound amazing. I have all the audio of the (fake) drums printed for my new EP of the Logic Drummer PLAYING SD3 samples. That's why I posted what I just did--it's so odd how bad the sample augmentation of real drums worked out. I think most people REPLACE drums, so maybe that will work better. I just have no interest in doing that for a number of reasons.
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Post by popmann on Dec 9, 2017 12:31:52 GMT -6
I knew that manufacturers KNEW that when I was sent a Audio Sputnik that I wanted to keep(buy) and they wouldn't let me....."that's our demo unit--we can sell you another one." No. Not with LDCs. Fail. When you see all the good press that mic got? That's how they did it--they selected some number of excellent specimens to send around. I bet Pat Leonard got to keep his.... Blackbird has an anniversary set of M149s....I used to rent one....and I can remember calling once and saying "I think you gave me the wrong one".....they looked it up and went--"sorry--we pulled the OTHER serial--but, they're a matched set!" Right. No such thing in modern LDC production, IME. I actually bought a Soundelux U95 (orig) based on how much I loved Blackbird's pair of early serials....Suzy Bogus has used "her" U95 for years....Pretty sure that's Great River's test set of mics....anyway--the one I ended up with? Not so lovely. Changed the tube hoping it was just that....it was not. Sold it. It's why I never suggest anyone on a budget use them as a baseline of core mics. The idea of "I just want to buy one LDC for my home studio" is a great idea if you can afford a U67 (even 87i) or a C12a or whatever--but, once your'e talking about modern manufacture CLONES? Good luck. Timesuck. Anyway--this is to say yes--you need to buy THAT unit if you love a mic. The amazingness of the old U87i, IME--is that over nearly 2 decades they remained INSANELY consistent unit to unit. I don't know how they did it, but the consistency waned in the AI versions to where now, some of them sound lovely and some are pieces of overpriced turd. Which is ALSO why there's so much Babel about the AIs--there ARE great sounding ones....that people might own....there are ALSO pieces of harsh spitty turd....thus--disagreement and this conflicting idea that they're the same as the older ones OR that they're really inferior to the older ones--because "the older ones" are actually a single entity that can be discussed, where the AIs are a crapshoot.
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Post by popmann on Dec 9, 2017 12:12:41 GMT -6
Augmenting real drums with these samples has proven inferior to BFD for me. And I don't mean using the Tracker function, which seems to be a waste of space with a DAW like Cubase or Logic that has the built in capability--maybe it's able to track better if you're going for complete replacement or something--certainly open to that, I just don't do it. My typical use is to fill in kit mic blanks--always room mics, but often also like a kick out mic, which no one records and I find necessary to allow a kick to speak in a natural way. Anyway--I was excited that they used both the 47FET AND a sub kick for all the kicks....and with like 12 different room mics....it seemed like it would be the ultimate for this purpose. ....not so much in practice. When I just solo the client's kick in mic and the BFD out mic, they sound like a single drum.....with these it sounds like reverb and woofer wobble. Yes--even muting the sub and rooms. If I need to beef up a snare, I'll add the snare bottom--again, this being the crazy custom stereo mic kit made for it, it adds such a nice bloom to the SD3 top sample, but with a real top track? It sounds like another sound of just kind of snares rattling.... I even loaded the rest of the whole 240gb so I could try the OTHER room mics. A)the AmbRibbon and AmbMid, which are in the original pack sound best....and that mid is UUgge, in terms of time--unless you need a side stick on a 90s R&B ballad (oh and I do sometimes! ) --the rest of the room mics are not terribly useful for augmentation. I EVEN called up a client track I mixed a lot of years ago, who I remembered had recorded very dry in his house....and ALSO was shall we say "Hair metal" which is IMO--what Superior does best traditionally.....nope. BFD owned it. So, while these are a LOVELY sample set, once you deprogram the shit overhead balances....for doing fake drums. Not so much for sample augmentation in mixing real kits recorded at home.
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Post by popmann on Dec 9, 2017 11:42:03 GMT -6
Follow up--they DO trust the developers for PDC, per Ben at Harrison.
I've had a single session that got way off....for some reason I've not been able to reproduce....but, I've been using it to track. I actually prefer it to track AUDIO into....it's not so much a "mixing DAW"....and a "MIDI free DAW".
Anyhoo....I bought 32c. Just the fact that I can launch the loopback process at any point, if I suspect it of getting off....I've been mostly using it on the old Windows machine, though it runs smoother on the MacBook, bing simply NEWER....I'd just already switched all the physical connections when I lost confidence in Logic's compensation.
The MCU integration makes sense--it's not as customizable powerful as Cubase, but it beats the piss out of Logic's piss poor "still working just like it did in 1997 when it was called Logic Control by Mackie" mode. I've put in a request on the forum to be able to spill the busses to the MCU faders like you can in the GUI already--that is what I USE Cubase's customization to do (basically)--one button goes to all drum relevant channels.....one to FX....one to all the group busses....etc....stuff that's built into the core workflow of MB32c. Doing the buss assignments with the Vpots means I can import a 32 track audio project and have it all routed in a minute or so--which then, via the spill ALSO organizes the view of the mixers--hit spill on the drum bus and you only see drum faders.....etc. Sweet addition to simply multi select whatever channels and hit "user" and have it put those non contiguous channels on the faders.
Plenty of kludgey stuff, IMO....if you generally build songs with MIDI and fake drums, ignore this product all together. But, as example, I pulled in a client track from 6 years ago....and had bettered my final mix (with some caveats involving automated special FX) in one hour. THAT is the stength--assign the channels properly to busses--adjust the tape VUs individually for each bus....and you're well on your way. The preset "one slider, one knob, three settings" compressor is super functional--I've been able to quickly flatline a vocal or punch up a bass put crack into a snare and control a kick in super short time.
Fun stuff. I've used nearly no plug ins....
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Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2017 20:18:49 GMT -6
I think people will like this. I just spent 5min pushing an old DR14 mix to DR7 in Mixbus. So, some combo of the Mixbus tape emulation and the ProL2. 5min. If I were going to release it, I'd want to mitigate some odd resonances....you know--like once you remove the transients from triangles in a mix, um....that's a nasty sound....it unearthed (or created) some teenie nasties in the vocal....but, I mean all in all....normal mix to loud master that arguably most end users couldn't hear the flaws in....5min.
They will sell a lot of these to people who love loud masters.
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Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2017 14:49:31 GMT -6
I don't think it counts as "political" when 99.9% of everyone supports it.
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Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2017 12:47:37 GMT -6
Also....Backblaze or medium of any kind isn't a procedure for archiving sessions. It can be a backup OF the archived files. Considering that the current administration will have US customers on metered connections ASAP....things like online storage will be the first casualty. It's for people who have <1TB total backup footprint or something. And then--it's a THIRD backup. Not a second. So, you have two copies in YOUR possession, and an offsite copy on a server? Cool. But, if that's your backup plan--like you have a copy locally...and then you have the online, that's a fundamental IT fail.
One of the things that got me thinking this was that MixBus has a "Archive project" that converts it to a single monolith with FLAC internally....and I thought "while that's still likely* proprietary, thus I won't use it--that CONCEPT would be great." One click, answer a few questions: spits out all the relevant files into a consistent structure.
*I've not actually run it to see what the Mixbuss option does in total.
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Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2017 10:38:20 GMT -6
You mean you can't insert hardware wherever in the chain you want? And if you render that track, it doesn't just do it in real time (because there's hardware involved)....but, otherwise act like any other insert?
#reasons2LoveCubase
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2017 16:42:09 GMT -6
If you combine the range selection with the newer "render in place" dialog, you can pretty painlessly get a straight export of the edited but flat file rendered from zero. Absurd that 20 years later rendering from zero is still a thing, but...you know...I am well over my quota for whining for the day.
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2017 14:04:23 GMT -6
Here's your consolidate files. The range tool selection is what I was missing to render from zero.
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2017 13:56:26 GMT -6
Very interesting subject. Do you guys print the plugins? Or just export the raw tracks? Raw tracks....and if you see my folder structure, hardware renders, which I suppose could also be plug in renders. But, I don't do that as a rule. That's just for things like--I've borrowed hardware from Blackbird and rendered through it-knowing I won't have it for potential recall, I'll render the audio and put it into my "Multitrack Processed" folder. But, I've said many times, the assets I care about are: -Raw multitrack, timestamped -raw "off the two" mixes -released masters For client work I'm just mixing I only save the raw mixes...and I DO save the project file for say 6mo "just in case" a recall is needed. But, long term, I just save the mixes. I may save variations I liked more than the client though....ehm...but, I'll clearly label theirs as "final". I "get" people printing stems rather than the old school "vocal up/down....instrumental" type mixes. With Mixbus, I may start saving those off just because everything goes through the busses--I just say export the 12....
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