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Post by popmann on Dec 5, 2017 19:29:53 GMT -6
Cubase's terrible export method got me thinking I've never seen this discussed: what's your archival procedure when you're done with a project? Do you just use the app's "clean up" function and just move the project folder to a backup drive?
Having done time in cub-i-hell doing IT access control, thus folder design and permissioning, I developed a structure years ago that ensures that I back up the non proprietary timestamped PCM files:
MultitrackRaw
MultitrackProcessed
Mixes
Masters
Misc
It's actually a little more layered....but, you get the idea. Processed is where I put hardware renders....and if I tune anything....or do something drastic in editing. These days, that folder remains pretty empty.
I don't usually even back up the project files. Sometimes, if there's a really elaborate string arrangement or something, I'll back it up and save a SMF....as a Hail Mary that might be useful at some point. Misc also gets things like lyrics and hardware recall sheets, when that was relevant.
one thing I will give LPX--it's export is flawless. Export all tracks....ignore fader/plug in...gets a folder full of mono files for mono tracks and stereo for stereo....edits/fades....timestamps....uniformly named....rendered from zero for compatibility with antique systems that don't respect timestamps.
What's your procedure for consolidation/archiving finished work?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 5, 2017 20:51:52 GMT -6
just zip up the folder. I have all of my logic projects set to automatically add any audio files I drag into the project to the Audio folder so all assets are local to the .logicx file so I never have issues with missing assets. there are a lot of 0s in PCM files, so they compress a lot.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 5, 2017 21:15:44 GMT -6
I'm debating some changes. I'm considering using cheap hard drives, and when I finish a project like an album, saving it there, and putting the drive away. Then I'll keep a second copy on my Glyph drive on my desk. It would also be on my Apple Time Machine for quite a while.
When I finish my next album, (one song to go), I'm curious what you guys would suggest to keep it safe, just in case something comes up, and I need to remix or add a different singer for publishing reasons, etc.
I wasn't aware I could run a bounce that allows me to export all tracks simultaneously, that's pretty cool if I want to send tracks to a mixer.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 5, 2017 21:27:05 GMT -6
Everything is on 2 hard drives at all times, and the client gets a third. I use chronosync software to mirror the drives.
I keep everything as session files until mix time. After the mix, I have folders of stems, all the revisions, and then whatever I get back from the mastering engineer.
I usually export each track as a wav file as well and keep that in a seperate folder.
Once filed are handed off to a client or label I’m generally not responsible to keep them, but I have a closet full of drives and don’t really see any reason to get rid of them until I run out of space.
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2017 11:42:58 GMT -6
I wasn't aware I could run a bounce that allows me to export all tracks simultaneously, that's pretty cool if I want to send tracks to a mixer. Or if you ever want to play those tracks again. Saving project folders is a temp backup thing--as in while you're working on something, you back up the project folder. It's not an archive solution. I've got 20 years of digital recordings on my backups. There have been difference softwares and hardware recording systems involved. Name a DAW--give me 15min, and I'll have any of those multitracks imported ready to be....remixed....overdubbed onto...examined...whatever. I can't open any of the project files. Hardware gone. Plug ins gone. Software versions gone. I'm not saying you can't take the Logic Project folder and drag all those AIF files into something and sort through them--which you understand by default it keeps every take of everything you recorded--so, you might have 7 or 90 vocal AIF files--none of which will be labeled "final vocal comp", which is, IMO/E the only vocal track you need to archive. 3 or 10 years from now there's no way in hell you have some memory of which phrase came from which... Anyway--yes, sure you ALSO need to be able to do that to send the tracks to someone to mix, but that's not the value in storing non proprietary files. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 6, 2017 11:59:37 GMT -6
-Delete most extra takes, keep any significant or potentially archeologically useful for future editing magic.
-Print as raw contiguous complete files with a naming convention. Looked like that was becoming less of a problem for awhile, more recently has become a big problem as people drive systems which store pre-roll headers they are unaware of. Almost everything I fly in lately has some incorrect timestamp offset I have to manually sort out, and some of them have been weird, like 1.37 seconds off. Reprinting seems to lose that extra info and get the timestamps right if done correctly.
-Have sometimes printed a version with efx, haven't bothered in awhile other than tuning.
-Gather best mastering files I can, and include those. Guy I use the most will give me 88K2/24 files without final limiting for future hi-res releases, vinyl, etc along with the production DDP. Sometimes all I get is 44K1/16 WAV.
-Backup to multiple RAID1 drives. Check, clone, and replace those drives every few years. Last year I replaced all the drives in my RAID hardware after cloning the originals, put the originals in labeled boxes.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 6, 2017 12:02:24 GMT -6
Very interesting subject. Do you guys print the plugins? Or just export the raw tracks?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 6, 2017 12:18:50 GMT -6
Brilliant post popmann. I see what you mean now.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 6, 2017 13:03:36 GMT -6
Very interesting subject. Do you guys print the plugins? Or just export the raw tracks? I've printed the plugs a few times....doubles the backup size.....nothing seems to be that important and no one has ever asked for future file access anyway.....stopped bothering.....it ain't the damn Beatles and it if is there'll be budget to figure it out........ |
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Post by notneeson on Dec 6, 2017 13:13:03 GMT -6
I just backup the sessions and try to remember to get the client to take a full copy, thus handing off that responsibility to them.
I'm on Pro Tools, printing mixes back to the session though a D-Box and Stam 4000. If someone wants a recall years later, it's not usually a big deal, occasionally I have to recreate an effect etc. but the only time it's ever an issue is long after they either signed off on the finals or (as sometimes happens) became distracted by other things. For instance, I don't currently have a sample replacement plugin on my rig, it's orphaned on my G5 as I have not paid the upgrade. But the expectation that you can get the exact same mix but different (long after the fact) isn't something I lose sleep over.
Recently, I did a recall (years after finishing the project) where the main change was simply tuning the vocals. Producer had requested a variety of mixes for potential sync licensing, no lead vocals being one. So I just summed the unprocessed no-LV mix with the new vocal, passed it through my 2-buss chain et voila. Easy peasy.
Heres the kicker, this client (not the producer, who is a pal) owes me money but got in touch to say he'd lost his masters. I sent him the amount and my Venmo addy and am awaiting payment. Have had radio silence for almost a week, so I suspect he found the files. Ugh.
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Post by spindrift on Dec 6, 2017 13:43:06 GMT -6
I've thought about dumping all my stuff to Amazon Glacier ($0.004/GB per month). 1TB would cost you $4. It would be a relatively slow retrieval time but say a client calls you up 8 years later and asks if you have that session, you can submit a ticket and get the files in a few hours from what I understand. aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/There's also Amazon S3 which is more real-time but more expensive too. |
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Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2017 13:56:26 GMT -6
Very interesting subject. Do you guys print the plugins? Or just export the raw tracks? Raw tracks....and if you see my folder structure, hardware renders, which I suppose could also be plug in renders. But, I don't do that as a rule. That's just for things like--I've borrowed hardware from Blackbird and rendered through it-knowing I won't have it for potential recall, I'll render the audio and put it into my "Multitrack Processed" folder. But, I've said many times, the assets I care about are: -Raw multitrack, timestamped -raw "off the two" mixes -released masters For client work I'm just mixing I only save the raw mixes...and I DO save the project file for say 6mo "just in case" a recall is needed. But, long term, I just save the mixes. I may save variations I liked more than the client though....ehm...but, I'll clearly label theirs as "final". I "get" people printing stems rather than the old school "vocal up/down....instrumental" type mixes. With Mixbus, I may start saving those off just because everything goes through the busses--I just say export the 12.... |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 7, 2017 2:43:40 GMT -6
also www.backblaze.comI don't understand why all of you guys aren't using it. it's $5/mo per computer and they back up everything, including every external drive that's connected. So, if you have a ton of drives with sessions on them, this is a nice easy way to get them stored somewhere offsite that is easily restorable. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 7, 2017 7:55:41 GMT -6
also www.backblaze.comI don't understand why all of you guys aren't using it. it's $5/mo per computer and they back up everything, including every external drive that's connected. For a lot of people in a lot of locations, the speed isn't there yet. I think it's only become borderline here recently, impossible a couple of years ago. Live in NYC, LA, etc, you don't have that issue. |
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Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2017 12:47:37 GMT -6
Also....Backblaze or medium of any kind isn't a procedure for archiving sessions. It can be a backup OF the archived files. Considering that the current administration will have US customers on metered connections ASAP....things like online storage will be the first casualty. It's for people who have <1TB total backup footprint or something. And then--it's a THIRD backup. Not a second. So, you have two copies in YOUR possession, and an offsite copy on a server? Cool. But, if that's your backup plan--like you have a copy locally...and then you have the online, that's a fundamental IT fail.
One of the things that got me thinking this was that MixBus has a "Archive project" that converts it to a single monolith with FLAC internally....and I thought "while that's still likely* proprietary, thus I won't use it--that CONCEPT would be great." One click, answer a few questions: spits out all the relevant files into a consistent structure.
*I've not actually run it to see what the Mixbuss option does in total.
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Post by bradd on Dec 7, 2017 16:27:26 GMT -6
just zip up the folder. I have all of my logic projects set to automatically add any audio files I drag into the project to the Audio folder so all assets are local to the .logicx file so I never have issues with missing assets. there are a lot of 0s in PCM files, so they compress a lot. Chuck, how do you do this in Logic? Thanks. |
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Post by ericbradley on Dec 7, 2017 16:52:40 GMT -6
You do it in Finder.
Right-Click the Folder and choose Compress…
This is a good procedure but the issue is that older projects, made in older software, with older plug-ins, and instruments, are many times prone to failure due to: OS, DAW, discontinued plug-ins, or other parameters.
This is why it is a good option to render everything as audio and keep an archive of the mix.
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Post by bradd on Dec 7, 2017 17:48:17 GMT -6
Thanks, Eric.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 12, 2017 17:49:07 GMT -6
I mostly just focus on archiving any of my final mixes. So far, I haven't really lost anything significant in the past 16 years.
I'm not getting paid for this stuff. Maybe if I were doing this in a more professional environment I'd have to worry about session file backups like some of you guys.
Those usually hang around for at least a couple years though... never really had any significant data loss problems, knock on wood.
I use Box.com, Dropbox, and 2 or 3 computers for syncing/backing up files. I might start paying for Dropbox's 1 TB plan this month...
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Post by EmRR on Dec 12, 2017 18:09:51 GMT -6
I did just have a client ask a third time for their session files....already provided twice.....
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Dec 13, 2017 17:32:01 GMT -6
I did just have a client ask a third time for their session files....already provided twice..... What about those systems some studios implement where they provide a login to a server for each client so they can download their files themselves as long as they have the login? |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 13, 2017 17:38:12 GMT -6
I did just have a client ask a third time for their session files....already provided twice..... What about those systems some studios implement where they provide a login to a server for each client so they can download their files themselves as long as they have the login? That works if you're within an acceptable request time. In this case, it's over a year later and I haven't promised any storage at all. And they had it, and lost it, twice! Should I still have it, by chance, it's in the realm of additional charge. |
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Post by mulmany on Dec 13, 2017 18:31:49 GMT -6
What about those systems some studios implement where they provide a login to a server for each client so they can download their files themselves as long as they have the login? That works if you're within an acceptable request time. In this case, it's over a year later and I haven't promised any storage at all. And they had it, and lost it, twice! Should I still have it, by chance, it's in the realm of additional charge. I would charge for it! |
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Post by drastic on Dec 13, 2017 21:40:14 GMT -6
I use Box.com, Dropbox, and 2 or 3 computers for syncing/backing up files. I might start paying for Dropbox's 1 TB plan this month... Yeah that's kinda what I do here too. I have full sessions and final mixes saved to hard drives and have consolidated sessions along with another final mix copy saved in my Dropbox as well. The final mix files that are on Dropbox are usually shared w/ one or two band members so they can access if needed again down the road. SaveSave |
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