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Post by popmann on Oct 21, 2017 16:54:46 GMT -6
At least.
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Post by popmann on Oct 21, 2017 10:04:41 GMT -6
The answer is the same--you have to know where it puts them and put these there.
It's in the documents library in windows under a Toontrack folder. I would assume the same on OSX, but I only have SD2 installed in the Mac.
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Post by popmann on Oct 20, 2017 22:19:07 GMT -6
I'm basically using Massenberg's Premiere preset....with the snare switched for the Ayotte you used in "tight"....and the hat switched to the 17" masterworks. I think I also took away the dynamic overheads--pumped everything to the condensers instead. Mainly, though....I started with his because he did all the time compensation and polarity adjustment for us. I know there's a purist thing where people don't want to time compensate....and I get that. I'm of the belief that's one of the few sonic advantages to working in digital....being able to time compensate multiple mics. I considered putting my working preset up today....but, then---these presets contain the whole routing. I'm not listening in stereo. I've got it all bussed to half the outputs into Cubase. I think if you open mine in stereo you'll hear just a kick drum. You'll have to reroute everything back to stereo.....and the balances are set in Cubase, too--since I want it to render at full volume....anyway--all told, I thought it might be as confusing as helpful just dropping it "as is". I'll be glad to share what I'm doing with it, though.... In general, some observations: the built in plug ins weren't making me happy, so I subbed it out. I left the little resonance cuts George made....I trust his familiarity with the kit and mics, but for any "personal coloring" I'm doing it in Cubase like I have for anything. Kramer tape on the snare top...SPL Transient Designer on toms and overheads set to -3 or -4db sustain--subtle. Slate VCC2 across all the subs. Neve on kick, API on everything else. I'm running it down without the DSP and with....right now, I'm feeling like the modeling stuff running at session rate is contributing a nice "size" to it, but I've done this kind of thing before and smacked myself later. It's being recorded as audio, cuz audio is forever. We'll see how this side/EP goes....as to whether I continue to print that stuff.
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Post by popmann on Oct 20, 2017 12:37:35 GMT -6
Can someone who installed the whole 240gb do me a favor? If you open the Premiere Genista kit....when you of to the overhead condensers, do you get 12 mic bleed options or 11? I'm missing the high hat. EDIT -- never mind....I found it. If I open the Massenberg preset of the kit it's there.That's weird--I don't know what I started my preset with that only made the overheads have 12/12 (no hat) vs massenberg's having 0/13....? Weird. Disregard.
Also:side note, there was discussion earlier about sample rate. I'm sure this was sampled in HD. Reduced in editing so it could "only" take up 240gb of drive space and download bandwidth.
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 20:01:45 GMT -6
I once asked on the Cubase forum....without regard to OS, I think it was something like 95% don't use ADM. It was similar to the number of people there who use the fully (and automatically) compensated hardware inserts. All the things that Steinberg and RME did to make a software system functionally compete with a $30k hardware system....are now not used.
So, Cubase Mac users....give Mike some ideas on lowering his input latency of his software cue? I wish I hadn't just ended my 30 day demo of C9....I'd play around with the buffers and various new ASIO Guard settings and whatnot.
I can help you get something from Logic to Cubase and back. I disagree that the export options are...."pretty terrible". Export a region....a whole track....a set of tracks you select....export a AuxBus and it exports your stem file.....choices to ignore or use fader and automation and inserts....normalize or not....maybe cubase has fixed that, but it was the one where that's time consuming and easy to do it wrong and end up without timestamps....or making stereo files out of your mono tracks.....
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 16:44:23 GMT -6
PT 10 doesn't HAVE direct monitoring on a native system, Chase. But, then neither did Mike's Logic system even though he thought it did. Swurve DOES have the gold standard for ASIO DM--and I'd almost bet has it disabled.... I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to make sure all involved (and that includes reading) what direct monitoring IS....and isn't. I know everyone wants to help. I'm sorry if my leading "no...." implied my whole post was some sort of rebuttal.
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 13:34:08 GMT -6
I thought ASIO was windows based and Core audio is Mac.. Why not use the dsp mixer in the interface? Inasdume maybe due to Auto Tune, If so, then you can’t use direct or low latency monitoring you have to set a buffer.. that’s how I read the article .. I am on OS X Lion . PT 10 32 bit, 64 sample buffer no issues recording with plugins.. but low latency monitoring will not work with latent plugs No....using autotune (or whatever input side plug) requires software monitoring. Always (barring Apollo/HDX type systems where plug ins can run ON the hardware mixer). It's actually WHY Apple won't allow direct monitoring. It confuses people....apparently. Just for background, maybe it needs to be spelled out what direct monitoring does. It means that when you hit "monitor" (or input monitor--whatever enables live monitoring of your input in your DAW) the application tells the HARDWARE mixer in your interface to loop the input back to the output. Otherwise, there's ZERO (latency)difference in using the control panel to control the hardware mixer of your interface, or using Cubase/Nuendo's channel ui--the one that you record to? I never had to go to a control panel mixer for YEARS....back when computers were a lot slower ironically. I never understood why people put up with ProToolsLE's lack of one....it was ALWAYS a software cue....because the answer was "if you can tell the difference--you need a TDM rig". Why so many Digi001 and 002s even sat next to analog mixing consoles. This is really a a sad development. Not unexpected, though. Apple's been moving away from professional audio for years. As another "old guy historical perspective"--everyone assumed faster processors....and faster busses (PCIe)....would bring the ability to run super low latency software montioring. But, no one ever told plug in developers they couldn't write latent plug ins--and while I've argue a 32sample buffer is still too mushy....even if you are fine with that--you're not fine with that AFTER you insert a USB or Firewire "safety buffer" latency....and THEN do the compensation needed for the latent plug ins ELSEWHERE in the software mixer....you can't...ever--it doesn't matter how fast the processor is....which is why UA and Steinberg and MOTU and RME--everyone started including reverb and EQ and compressor type DSP on their HARDWARE mixers....when they realized that tech wasn't going to ever "get there".
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 8:44:56 GMT -6
He's using a MOTU 16a according to his post.
But see my RME link. "Not possible on OSX". That company bends over backwards to implement the best driver possible.
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Post by popmann on Oct 17, 2017 0:45:04 GMT -6
There's not a secondary driver to select on the Device setup page where that's greyed out? If not, you're in the majority. You have to have a driver written to support it. The trend has been for more and more companies to reply on class compliancy on the Mac side....I think if you compare your LPX input then pull the fader all the way down (so it's silent)--and enable that input on the MOTU hardware mixer, you'll see there's a difference in Logic. I could be wrong, but I DID get a good chuckle when I was sent this the other day: www.apogeedigital.com/blog/ensemble-element-integrate-logic-pro-easily-eliminate-latencyI thought "what is old is new again"....it's like a full fledged 1998 Windows DAW up in here now. Just enable the hardware monitoring from inside Nuendo you say? You're not going to get better driver writers than here: www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24115
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Post by popmann on Oct 16, 2017 19:49:00 GMT -6
I'm trying to clarify for someone looking at a $700 "Kontakt Player" string library that they will HAVE to buy the full version of Kontakt, even when the dev advertises that it will work with the "free player". If I'd known that, I'd not have bought the ones I did back in the day. I logged tickets because I thought "certainly this is malfunctioning that it keeps timing out".....nope. By design.
It adds to the cost. At the time of purchase AND ongoing. The amount depends a LOT on when you buy....when you are required to upgrade for OS or instrument compatibility....was the only point I was bringing up. It absolutely IS the situation....and NI's intention.
Now, back to strings....LASS2....talk about someone who needs to code their own instrument. they have made a UI for a script that applies changes and transforms input to the racks of instrument banks "below it" in Kontakt. Upside--it really sounds pretty wonderful. Holy crap, though....I think I burned serious calories just trying to understand their ARC tutorials I was watching. Ha.
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Post by popmann on Oct 16, 2017 9:11:18 GMT -6
#pointMissed
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2017 17:47:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm currently BACK to running two systems. I did that for YEARS.....I've been in the software instrument game for 20 years now almost. I think three machines was probably the height for me. I had a Mac running DP to sequence MIDI....an Akai DPS24 to handle the audio....and a Windows box running Gigastudio, BFD, and the NI B4.
Isn't the full version $399? This is what I mean--that's no benefit to me. I have ZERO interest in making my own instruments. Or editing them even. I don't pay $700 for a string library so I can go in and edit the key mappings and such. There's no reason ON PAPER I should need to pay $399 for a sampler. Just like you shouldn't NEED to buy an "upgraded" player from VSL ($150?), but you DO, if you want those VSL samples to reach their potential. They sell expensive products. Top shelf expensive instruments should have hidden costs.
That's one thing I will say for East West. PLAY is free. Upgrades are free. i would SO do the Composer Cloud thing if they had string or horn libraries I liked the sound of....because, those are things I don't need very often. I'd pay my $30 next month, when I'm expecting to have these ready for the orchestrations....do them and not need to pay anything for a long time. I wish VSL offered that--I'd be on that in a heartbeat.
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2017 17:25:43 GMT -6
Yes, mine is from experience, not marketing copy or a designers intention based on parts he chooses. A "K67 style capsule" is 98% of every LDC at Guitar Center. That makes that part choice a sonically irrelevant piece of info. The only time that's relevant is when it's NOT a center terminated capsule. IME.
I used to buy or borrow anything with even implied "67 voicing". I spent SO much money and time, I an ASHAMED for being so foolish--throwing so much good money after bad. I could've just bought an M269c at what was market value THEN....come out way ahead. Now, they're so outrageously expensive, and business being what it is-- it won't happen in this lifetime.
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -6
I think Spitfire sounds pretty lovely.
What I'm saying is that LOTS of things "only require the player".....the player will do into demo/timeout mode if you click onto a button that isn't available in the player. This will cause you to have to close the player, lose any work you've done....and reload the instrument, which for orchestral things can take MINUTES off a magnetic drive.
.....making it functionally unusable for me. So, it's reason 484756 I can't stand Native Instruments. They make the devs PAY THEM for the ability to "work with just the player"....then they gouge the customers to get them to buy the full version by not taking BASIC programming 101 ways around launching a timeout demo mode.
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2017 14:18:41 GMT -6
No. Unless EVERY mid forward mic is now being considered "67 voiced"....no--an Sm7 is FAR closer to a U67 than a U99 is. Promise. That said--the U99 was a nice mic. I don't have anything against the mic....the U95s (and the S is key in David's world) was the closest to vintage Neumann I ever heard from him. And weirdly, did he only make that for like a year before rebadging it? It's hilarious--having used all three:
U95=Chinese built C12 clone (Blackbird has a pair of KILLER sounding early serials....which led me to buy one....with a later serial that was "eh" at best) U95s=most generically vintage Neumann--little dark but present.....thick in the low mids.... U99= bright and modern take on mid forward German....like an M149 or manley Black. U99b=like the last one with a high frequency roll off switch
The last is the only one I've not personally used....but, I feel like David said it was the same mic with a rolloff switch-so I passed on trying it having sent back the original. But, then he also says it's 67 voiced? So, YMMV.
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Post by popmann on Oct 15, 2017 14:06:31 GMT -6
VSL isn't going to use Kontakt. But, yes---it's a development environment for third parties. There technically are third parties who sell devlopment kits FOR Kontakt...that they use....but....that's probably TMI.
For strings specifically EVERYTHING uses Kontakt except EastWest and VSL. You can't REALLY use the "player" in the real world, so add $399 to any of those libraries so that you can buy the full version of Kontakt, TOO. The ones that pay NI to be able to use the "player"....here's the deal with the player--if you hit the wrong button, it will without arning you go into demo mode and time out in 15 or 20min---causing you to have to restart and reload. They do this intentionally. Because it means people will buy the $399 to make that behavior stop. All they would have to do is grey out the "full version" feature buttons OR put a dialog pop up "this will put Kontakt into demo mode--do you want to continue? Yes/Cancel"---and you could use the player version, but their not taking those simple steps means they won't.
M57--where are you seeing that you need Kontakt for the new VSL? It says it has a new player AND plays in VI Pro2--and you NEED tpo buy VIPro if you use VSL for anything. Their 15+ year old included "Vienna Instrument" player is junk comparatively. I don't mean in usability--if you're confused by the VI player....VIPro will blow your mind with the depth, and thus (likely) confusion....but, I mean the SOUND--the included VI does nothing but performance legato. Their original Gigastudio scripting. VI Pro is where they used the same sample set to fo polyphonic legato....to do layering....to do individual note delays and finding tune, so that you play a chord and it will randomly delay each note by an individual amount like it was that many players starting.....and "drift into tune" differently on a per note basis.
I would've abandoned VSL YEARS ago without teh VI Pro 2 instrument. Your current Special editions will sound better in it. though, honestly--it won't get less confusing. It already sounds tremendously better than those Logic strings....so....I dunno what to tell you--string libraries are for programming. Period. If you aren't willing to learn the langue and methods of articulation switching....the last thing you need to do is buy another expensive library. They ALL need it. Some less than others. I suppose the methods may be a little different--but, this isn't a piano VI, where basically you can buy it, scrool the presets, pick one...and play. You basically HAVE to get tweaky....you HAVe to learn how the individual instrument moves through articulations and how best to deal with that in your sequencer.
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Post by popmann on Oct 14, 2017 17:57:15 GMT -6
I have the old QLSO if you want to buy it. I say old--it's the version they still sell now....the PLAY version. From memory, I have the Gold+all the mic paks....make me an offer. If you want, I'll even throw in an old iLok1 if you need it. I have the actual DVDs, too if you'd like to spend three days installing it. rather than me copying it onto a thumb drive. Aren't 128gb thumb drive like <$20 now? It's like 70-80, from memory. Big strings. Big orchestra. 70 piece ensembles and such. Not my sound. Not sure that I've ever used it in anything finished. If there were a $25/mo "VSL Everything" sub, I'd be there with bells on. Hell-I'd give them $25 just to complete my solo and chamber strings for a month so I can just do this project and not think about string VIs for another many years.
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Post by popmann on Oct 14, 2017 15:23:16 GMT -6
I cringe if they're going to use Kontakt....but, I don't see that-they were burned long ago by NI who still hasn't fixed their copy protection (unless something has happened recently)--it said they have a new "included" player instead of the 15 year old Vienna Instrument....but, that it still runs in VIPro2.
M57....using them so exposed with just piano is rough. Using trem didn't help--to me that just always sounds out of place. Did you use Logics sounds over VSLs....because it was easier somehow? Send them a line and say you want to demo the VIPro2 player with your Special Edition....it's way deepr and more complicated....but, these will be. All of them. But, it sounds like a totally different library when you get that, which does their sort of input scripting like the modern Kontakt stuff does. enable the features like finding tune....anywhere you're playing chords on a single track, the note delay (which delays each note by a random amount so it never hits at once like you just played a chord on the keyboard)....it has a built in reverb, ehm.....it will do speed based articulation control.....time stretch the existing samples to give variations for different play speeds on the faster stuff and portamento glides....if I have a particular issue with VSL, it's their business model of the whole "Standard and full libraries"....the "included" Vienna Instrument vs the Vienna Instrument Pro. It's not like they're inexpensive samples--they should be floating you the better sounding player for them. IMO.
Not unlike Kontakt's "Player" that starts a demo mode timeout if you click the wrong button....causing you to have to shut it down and reload the instrument you paid for that claimed you didn't have to buy Kontakt....But, if a $499 instrument was actually $899 because you had to buy Kontakt TOO....people wouldn't buy it. so they don't. And all NI would have to do is make there be a warming box "you just clicked a feature only available in the full version of Kontakt--do you want to start a 20min demo mode of the full version, buy the full version, or cancel?" Problem solved--but, that's a not problem NI wants solved--they did that on purpose.
I digress....
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 20:01:46 GMT -6
....it's funny--I got htat email this morning and tossed it like I do all their emails because for ten years they've sent me what is effectively "get $3k in samples this month for only $2k" offers OR "listen to this obscure articulation of orchestral timpani never before sampled".... I don't even read them anymore. This looks to be aimed at exactly what my "complaint" is with the VSL I have now. Single moderate sized section on a sound stage....playable.
Bonus? Discounts on completing the old libraries.
Hmmm....I hate spending money on this stuff. I really do....because unlike say new keyboard VIs, it's not gonna inspire me to sit and create. Play. Goof.
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 15:01:49 GMT -6
For perspective, Kennedy--I bought the Chamber Strings initially for Gigastudio....so.... 15 years ago? More? I know it was prior to anything being 64bit....and my 10 year old PC is 100% 64bit. I actually exchanged it for their then brand new "veinna Instrument" version because it could access more of my precious 32bit RAM than Giga. The new VIPro2 player with all it's new ways to bend the samples kept it alive. If you didn't buy that....you need to. It's not a trivial change. I ignore all the pattern stuff....just it's ability to do the stuff like each voice slightly delayed and getting it's own individual "finding tune" profile.
It still stands up well once programmed. I've just never been able to get a particularly playable Ensemble out of it....and for me....there's two times I need strings: demo'ing the idea of "hey--maybe strings here?" and "I'm going to sit down and chart out the strings for something being released"....the second, VSL never lets me down for. I can get them to sound beautiful and real and properly intonate....but, for the FIRST---the one that is literally the placeholder for the second, I'm almost always using something else. The Kronos has a really playable string patch I've used....East West has some....but the thing is--they're not going to stand up (for me) for a release....and when I switch to VSL to do "the real" tracks, the SOUND shift is SO drastic....it's an adjustment period. I've always wanted VSL to make a playable patch....so that when I can use it to "play" an idea---prove the concept....THEN I can dig into splitting out the voices and making those into fluid lines....and it will sound "like that but more realistic".
Spitfire's Chambers sure do eat resources for lunch. But, they do also sound nice.
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 14:02:53 GMT -6
No prob....I bet some stuff got "unwired" in the Environment. But, that's way too far under the hood for you to go messin', MJB. Pop's orders. You can fuck the whole project super quickly up in there....all kinds of shit starts behaving like you don't expect.
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 13:55:35 GMT -6
I dunno....I feel like he (Scott/Spectrasonics) goes the Apple route that way....price fixed, no advertised discounts. Might fall under some kind of store coupon, though.
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 12:56:39 GMT -6
That was a side note of good practice--the having a "no input" track at the top. ....you do need to click off the vocal (or anything else being sent to that reverb) for troubleshooting. If it's still broken, it's something else. The you move onto creating a NEW Aux channel with a reverb. If that works, you can go look into what's different in the environment, or simply recreate all four save THaT as a template and move on. Like people who aren't plagued by needing to know WHY....
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Post by popmann on Oct 13, 2017 12:40:58 GMT -6
Not if you can take the solo of and click the focus onto another track, ruling out Logic's thing where it auto record angles and uses a second fader automatically for whatever channel is focused/highlighted.
Fwiw, I've taken to rendering my intro click to audio, setting its input to "no input", and sticking it at the top of my arrange window to leave selected when I'm working but not actively tracking....it is how you avoid the "known" problem with the one core overloading.
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Post by popmann on Oct 11, 2017 20:46:53 GMT -6
What's new and what are you digging?
I tend to like small sections....I use the VSL Chamber&Solo strings mainly....a little LASS. Old school at this point--but, they used to be the only game in town for SMALL sections appropriate for pop. Now I see lots of players.....Spitfire, 8Dio, a few others I don't remember off hand....all doing Chamber sections and Quartets and such....I heard one that called itself "solo strings" but sounded like a small ensemble to me--which is odd, but it was lovely. I gotta search and remember what that was....
Just wondering what's setting your string arranging world on fire these days.
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