I wasn't going to chime in, because lord knows I know not from "modern X mixing" ....but, the track you linked is a second bass track. The domV chord (right before the drums kick in) is the low open B(maj-root) on a five string bass--and from the tone, one that was overdubbed, as it's not the "Stingray 4" that is the bass sound for the rest of the tune. Whether the synths double it at that moment isn't why your woofers move. LowB's fundamental will wobble woofers...nearing DC.....
But you are a man of viewpoint certainty in the extreme and I solicited and appreciate the input.
You did ask.
There's nothing "objectively better" in such pursuits....because one man's treasure and all...
M57, I guess my opinion is based around the Cubase and LPX compressor....but, there's have been, over the years all kinds of competent third party plugs if your DAW's is lacking. Full control. Latent (looking ahead in the buffer)....things like defeatable saturation or side chain EQs are a bonus that make it even more flexible.
For the record, I think you're making a mistake. 1&b were barely acceptable and unacceptable respectively, where with the same everything else INCLUDING engineer, 2&a were "better than average" vocal tracks, tonally.
If if you can't justify the STA $$, return the Warm, save that money, too. I can do better than the Warm with an uncompressed (during tracking) vocal with the compressor built into the DAW. But give me 1 or B to mix and I'm gonna have to work hard and try out a million plugs to try to band aid that....old stock tubes are subtle in the grand scheme.
While I had the same senhesiers on, I thought I'd listen to the original two again --I like B better in the first still, but my preference would be the first in the second round of them all....and the second round's B is my least fave of all--so, I have no idea if you're using the same units a to a or b to b....or what you doing but you're widening the gap of preference between them for me. Best to worst:
2a 1b 1a 2b
Fwiw. You can drive yourself nuts with this stuff. dont. Because this isn't in context, which is the reason for compressors....and it won't be the same for every vocal and context.
In "not earbuds" headphones, 2 by quite a bit. The first doesn't really sound compressed--just distorted. I'd be curious to hear that track sans any compression....I don't generally find compression will gut the mids, so I have to assume 1 is just emphasizing the worst nasal attributes possible with the saturation.
They will never post a new white paper, because even in the world of theoretical gnat fart sonics (sic) a 64bit float doesn't have as much footroom as their now 20 years old 48bit fixed (via 56bit accumulator chip) HD TDM mixers. I seem to remember if comes closer than 32bit float....but, still doesn't match the old 56bit accumulators. They need to "sell" the idea that newer is better even when it's objectively not.
They needed it in order to bridge into the native processing world, which has been the complaint with TDM all along (or at least towards the end of it's life)--the plug in DSP couldn't keep up with Moore's Law in consumer CPUs.....and to bridge a hardware mixer into software took far to many virtual IO connections.
Pretty sure it's since v11---TDM can run v10....and it, not being software will be 48bit fixed from 2001 to as long as it is still able to run. They discontinued support for it in v11--so from memory, that's going to be the start of the 64bit floating point mixer.
Bleed is mostly irrelevant compared to artist comfort with the sound.
Here's an ironic tie in to another current thread---the only way you can ever hear headphone bleed EVER in an end result? Is when you're feeding someone a click track. The frequencies of lots of those click sounds will bleed from ANY headphones....and much louder than actual music....and since it's intended to never be heard by the public, it won't just gel like all other bleed does.
Marshall did 1wt versions of their classic amps....the JTM45.....JMP....JCM800...was their a Superlead? Anyway....little 1 watt heads that have built in attenuators to drop to like .3wt or something. They did it because people thought the Class5 wouldn't be tear your head off loud. It is. Again--low wattage? Isn't volume. It IS dynamic range and you literally can't do it with these little single ended things.
Hauling weight? Get heads+cabs.
This is like the best time EVER to be buying tube amps....so many wonderful designs--Bassbreaker15....head....lovely clean to dirty. Not expensive. Comes in two variations (speakers and finish) 1x12 combo, too--but, with issues carrying weight, head cab will always be lighter. If you need clean and ultra light--those ClassD Vox things that fit on your pedalboard but pump 50wts....amazing....dirt cheap, too....obviously, there are amazing boutique designs that beat these if you want ot get spendy, but I don't assume that. Then there's 50 years of used Fenders out htere used that I hear do a fine "Fender tone".
So, small watt.....single ended power ....single preamp tube....is what's "under the hood".
You can design an amp to sound good across more range of volume....you don't do that by making it lower wattage alone. You may incorporate some variance in the wattage as PART of that design....but....see how Marshall put the attenuator on their 1wt line? Because people expect low wattage to be low volume....and it's just not.
It has the combination of a really sharp DI attack and a mushy overall sound with chords that says "modeler" to me. Modelers always work better on leads where there are less harmonic overtones to be wrong.IME. I don't know what a "DIVA" is....is that a DI of some sort?
I find it really hard to judge guitar tone without any context. I mean--if that were a SRV cover (your avatar) that would be a terrible tone. But, if it's to go with a mellow Rhodes electric piano in a jazzy small ensemble, that might be right on the nose, you know? Ultimately, it's the player....YOU....that has to be happy with tone of guitars/amp. What I think of a tone in isolation really doesn't matter a lot.
Last Edit: Jul 21, 2017 14:39:24 GMT -6 by popmann
And don't get me wrong--I believe multitouch screens are super intuitive and SHOULD be the future of DAWs.....honestly not sure why it's not standard NOW.....so there's nothing wrong with that technology, but it's just not a replacement for a physical encoder of some sort. Surface Knob anyone? Cutting edge multitouch computer.....pen and knob as the alternate to fingers.
I couldn't suss out why I would do such inferior mixes in software....consistently over years....until I realized I mix with my eyes closed a lot--but can't with software. And honestly--Cubase actually DOES have a way you can lock on a fader and go into granular mode with the mouse that CAN sorta do that--I had to fashion that and the Griffin knob as "AI focus knob" when I had mixing gigs to do while the MCUs were in the shop....but, you're still open/close/open/close....and it's a workaround based on the principle.
But, I want you to back up. I'm not talking about real drummers vs MIDI drums. Neither require tracks be cut to a click. The only thing that "requires" that is if you want the MIDI drums to be track #1 start and you play to THEM. ie, just like your "work with loops....in the writing stage". My Cog in the Machine was cut to a click--solely because it was written to a loop, and subjective preference aside, human timing changed that feel.
And, again--no one is trying to convince you that your happy place isn't your happy place. If you like your click you can keep your click. But, don't extrapolate that into that being some requirement for recording music. One man band, 10 girl band, 90 piece orchestra of monkeys playing kazoo.....none of them requires a click.
If you want the feel a click you should use one. I do....when I want that feel. But, make no mistake, it's a SPECIFIC feel.
Why would you record demos to click? Why would you want a damned machine to dictate your songwriting?
I often use Logic's drummer so click becomes important.
No--Logic having a map of your tempo is important to use the Drummer (or any midi drum app). That's often achieved by people playing to a click from the start. But, if you read my post....that's not "the only way".
(simplified) --play your tune in Music Memos and import that to LPX. But, BEFORE you import it, make sure it's properly detected the downbeat. Import it, and you now have a human tempo played track that Logic has tempo mapped for you and any Drummer regions you create will follow said map. You can enable (or not) the Follow on the given region to make it actually pay attention to your performance beyond tempo.
Of course you can....I bought the only midi sequencer that would map tempo relative to incoming timecode in 1990. I just switched to LPX after 15 years in Cubendo World because it automaps what I used to do manually in Cubase and Nuendo...and ups the ante that the midi drummer "follows" audio tracks--ie, adapts it's beats to better fit the transient patterns in the audio of guitars and basses and whatever....again--could always be done via custom groove templates, but....this is mostly automatic....and the older I get, the less time I want to spend on shit I don't have to do manually. It only took them 25 fucking years to come around to my way of working.
Now I can simply play my song....tempo map and virtual drummer follows ME....
I see the problem--the assumption that clicks are needed to record. They're not. If you like the feel they bring....then use'em....but, there's not some requirement.
Anyway, It took me about 3 months to configure this here Pyramix system with the optimizations. The amount of shit you have to do to configure Windows is mind blowing. If you are a Super Nerd with High-Functioning ADHD like me, you will be totally cool. The patience and persistence was totally worth it to record at 192K/DSD rates.
Don't anyone mistake my post above....retail experience aside, IME, there's little particular advantage in Apple systems for professional level music production.
I know nothing of Pyramix DSD systems and what they require (but don't document for you in a $50k+ system? They should really be providing the $1500 PC hardware preconfigured for a $50k recorder).....I promise you I can tweak NOTHING on a fresh Windows7 install and record 192 PCM all day. This IS actually what I meant in the above--WINDOWS is not the issue. There's not a million SOFTWARE configurations needed on a Windows machine EVEN for the exponentially more resource demanding job of music creation (as opposed to straight audio record/edit)....
If you take your example of needing 192 or 384(DXD) bandwidth. Depending on track count--this is where you need the nvme drive's bandwidth just for audio, or maybe you need to RAID0 some 850 SSDs....and where Xeon level 12-24core processing can come in handy. Where your audio interface MUST be a PCIe card system for getting the IO handled. But, outside of that, a literally vanilla retail (meaning retail box license from MS--not retail computer) Windows 10 install will not need any tweaking post install, unless loading drivers is "tweaking" to you. But, that's an hour....not three months.
A swedish engineer sent me these tracks yesterday, they have a bit of processing (same for both) and they are level matched. He will post a video of this test which included another clone as well in a few weeks and he will also upload the raw files.
The aim of the test was to find out how close the clones were (or not) to his vintage Neumann U87, I am very pleased with the results and look forward to your opinion. As a clarification, this version of the SA87 is with the Heiserman capsule and Sowter output transformer.
given that old 87s can vary a lot.. thats pretty cool. I like both.
I didn't listen to these FWIW-so, my comment isn't directly related to these clips....but, I need to point out that I couldn't disagree more strongly. Old 87s don't vary much at ALL IME.....it's literally why they are what they are. You might have one coated in spit that's slightly darker....slight high shelf and it will match a not gummed up one....
NEW U87AIs are the ones that vary from great to dogshit and everywhere in between, IME.
I've had old ones that were literally a decade apart (by serial) that were stereo pair quality matches. At some point, there were 4 here....spanning a total of a decade--none close in serial....completely interchangeable.
the issue in modern LDC manufacture is the capsule consistency. I've had a "sold as matched pair" of Neumann M149s here-sounded like two different mics (model) on a close mic'd pop vocal-I tell that story to point out it's not just a problem with low cost LDCs. But it IS a modern problem. PreSennhessier Neumann was a gold standard of consistency. IME.
Then I have a hard time believing that the FP, which simply uses the MCU protocol will work.
Controllers aren't like audio interfaces. They have specific implementation in each app---so, in Logic the same MCU doesn't function the same way as Cubase.....which in turn, functions a third way in ProTools....which is why the tight ones are app specific proprietary. The FP8 actually has Studio One specific function buttons. I wouldn't buy it for any other DAW myself--the support in the rest will simply be "emulate MCU"---only it doesn't have all the buttons nor the layout of the MCU--so, whatever that app's programmers thought up for implementation won't even fully be there.
The part missed here is that Kennedy is looking at cheap RETAIL Windows machines.....and wondering if he can use those to replace his gaining 2012 MacMini.
The answer to that is actually not too nuanced or debatable: "not really". I feel pretty confident that will end very badly for him....which has little to do with the operating system involved. That's a huge Babel point in this discussion always on music forums. One thing is indisputable:
-I can go to the Apple Store in the mall and get a 4.4ghz Kaby Lake i7 machine with a 1tb nvme chip PCIe storage and 16gb RAM.....with a gorgeous display.....swing by Guitar center and buy a "partner" hardware IO--Apogee, UA.....or non partner but professionally supported RME/MOTU level Thunderbolt or USB (depending on IO requirements) on the way home---plug that up, install some software....and have what is faster than EVERYONE HERE'S music production workstation TONIGHT.
There is not equivalent to that in the retail Windows world. Turnkey mail order DAWs with preinstalled drivers and software with restore disks with all that baked in.....and the closest....and nearly always MORE expensive out of the gate (vs TOC) compared to the above iPimpMac.
Of course Kennedy can correct me if I mistook his desire to buy a retail Windows machine to save money....
Actually, the internet bit is....not wrong, but misleading as to the issue. You can go on the net all you want--you just run the machine without administrative rights. Apple won't LET you run with admin rights....Microsoft can't seem to get their UAC type thing to work in non annoying ways, so people turn it off.
Here's what you do....you build the PC and install all software with your account having administrative rights....you then created a second fresh admin account.....you log in with THAT account, and remove the original account's local administrative rights. You write down the password/login for that admin account and keep that somewhere. You will need it to install new software and potentially fix some file permissions.