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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 28, 2021 4:56:20 GMT -6
Albeit it’s more expensive than the Audient, but what does everyone think of the Focusrite ISA 828?
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 27, 2021 11:23:22 GMT -6
I had always hoped to work with him one day. I figured out at one point that many of the albums on my reference mix play list were done by him. So, I based a lot of the way I mix around how he worked. Thank you for the music sir!
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 26, 2021 19:51:58 GMT -6
If you were using the B6 on the Bottle here are a few things to note. It’s a K67 capsule tuned to have a frequency response a bit like a C12 with a low mid boost. The Kiwi is essentially the FET version of the mic. It works really well with a clean tube preamp like the Demeter VTMP. It’s a great sound.
I had the BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with most of the main caps. The B6 was really nice for a forward more modern sound. I had really wanted to upgrade to the Bottle, but never had the funds to do it. The Bottle is a bit more open with a bigger sound than the Bottle Rocket Stage II. I really disliked the Stage I. It always sounded dull.
I might look at the RMS 269. It’s a little beefier, but has that openness that worked in the B6 Bottle Rocket combo. Maybe a U87ai with the inner tube mod. Not sure how much you’re looking to spend. I would just keep your eyes out for a used Bottle. They got really low before the pandemic, but it’s been a while. I’d love to grab the Bottle at some point. The Bottle Rocket Stage II was a great extra mic when I needed it, but it never really outshined my FleA 49 or U67. With the B11 it served as my 67 style mic for a while until I got the U67 together (modded MK67). The B7 had a nice 47ish flavor too.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 26, 2021 16:38:04 GMT -6
Ask BradD best money you can spend on your hunt for the perfect mic is to rent a couple of hours at major studio with a bunch of the classics. Tell them what your up to and you will probably walk in with a bunch lined and ready for you to shoot out. Even better if you bring something you own as a reference. You will walk out with files you can take home and take the time to figure out what your goal is. Yes it’s not going to be cheap, but it’s probably less money than going down the wrong road. I’ve done this twice; once at Spock Studios by me where Emily and I got to try a Wagner U47W and a Korby Kat with all the caps. Then at The Barbershop Studios where I sang into an amazing sounding M49C, U67, M269, RCA44, U47 FET, and more. Totally amazing experience.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 25, 2021 20:22:05 GMT -6
One thing to think about - If you intend to use these mics as overheads, a piano micing pair, or anything remotely similar, you'll need a pair of the same mic, if not an actual matched pair. For that kind of application you could set up two different mics in mid-side.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 25, 2021 7:42:24 GMT -6
I like the idea of getting a Neumann styled mic and an AKG styled mic. I think going in that direction will serve you the best. For Neumann I would look at U47, M49, and U67 styled mics. They all really have their own sound, but they all have warmth with an enhanced midrange. The U47 is bigger than life, with a kind of built in compression and openness. The M49 has that bigger than life quality, but is less compressed with a more even and less woofy low end, and a slightly less open top end. The U67 is flat out neutral and sounds good on everything. The M269 is a bit more open. It could be what you’re looking for, but once you start looking at the AKG style mics you’ll have that openness on one of them. ADK’s 67 is based on the M269. Just know that before you pick it up. The U67 is much darker on the top end and is more universal in it’s application. I would look at the RMS269 before I look at the ADK if you want to go in that direction. It has a bigger midrange than the ADK and sounds richer.
With AKG you have two classics to look at; C12 and ELA M251 styled mics. The C12 is very open with less midrange push than the Neumann mics. It’s a very specific sound, but for a forward focused vocal it can sound really special. The 251 has a bigger sound to it. It’s seems like a cross between the C12 sound and the U47.
If I were looking at just two I’d look at the U67 and 251. I think they will have a nice contrast and work together when needed. The other combination which seems to be really popular is the U47 and C12. They are sort of two complete ends of the spectrum.
I like what I’ve heard from ADK’s 251. I haven’t heard the Lawson. I always love what I hear from the Bock, but that may be out of your budget. The Upton sounds a touch darker on top than others, which could be a good thing or a bad thing. For the 12 I might look at just having Barabric build one with Tim’s Capsule. I haven’t heard to many clips of the ADK, so I can’t comment.
The WA47 is really good for the money, but I’d still look at the FleA 47 or the Heiserman H47T if I were looking at the 47. As for the U67, Stam makes a good 67, but you can’t get it in any kind of timely manner. The WA67 sounds ok, but I’d probably upgrade the capsule if I went that direction. Unfortunately, no one seems to be making a good, readily available U67 clone. The reissue is great once you roll a few tubes in it, but it ain’t affordable.
Quick note; I own a FleA 49, custom U67, and I’ve been itching for a Bock 251 for a while.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 23, 2021 4:36:33 GMT -6
Thanks for all the suggestions. The vanguard is on the list. I currently dont have a tube mic at the moment so wanting to add a 47ish type thing. Not really looking for emulation just the best tone i can find. I started aiming at a ut47fet. Then heard a shootout and lost interest. The heiserman is just a tad outside budget. Not convinced with warm audio gear in general. I may have a line on a bees neez elly for a very good price. So i guess fet is back on the table. If you’re looking for something 47ish in the price range you’re talking about then the Warm WA47 is a good choice. I was lucky enough to have one here for a bit last year. It was fantastic for the price. I even liked it better than my old Peluso 2247SE. If you want something better than that you’d need to triple your budget and look at the Heiserman H47T or the FleA 47. Having used the FleA 47 many times I can tell you the WA47 isn’t in the same league, but neither are any tube microphones in the budget you’re talking about. Maybe find a used BLUE Cactus? They sometimes show up for good prices. I can’t really speak of the Vangaurd. I’ve never used it and from clips I’ve heard it’s really not my thing. I can say it’s not in the 47ish direction. I would take a look at some of the offerings Gefell has that fall around your budget. They used real M7 capsules and should give you more of the richer feel you are looking for.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 22, 2021 13:29:41 GMT -6
Like many here, I also love U87's. About 3 years ago, I owned nearly a dozen U87's at one time. One by one, I tested them with my own voice & acoustic guitar (this is a personal home/project studio), and narrowed them down to 3 I loved: A minty 1977, a minty 1985, and a brand new U87ai I bought from Sweetwater in 2017. Cool thing about the 2017 U87ai – I also have a Max Kircher MK67 for it (with a healthy supply of Telefunken EF86's), plus a TLM 67 insert I grabbed from Reverb or eBay. So... On the k87/k67 style Neumann... I'm "set". ;-) Wait, wait, wait... stop the presses. Is nobody going to ask why you had a dozen U87's for a personal project studio? We're all just going to read this and move on like it's a totally normal statement? There's got to be a story here. How did this come about, and what did you do with the other 9? If given the opportunity/funds I would have a ridiculous number of microphones. I didn't even blink except to think "good for him."
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 21, 2021 18:01:27 GMT -6
What are you looking for in a tube mic. The Warm WA47 is great for its cost. I loved the Advanced Audio CM49. You could also opt to spend a touch more and get something custom from Barbaric.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 20, 2021 12:22:25 GMT -6
^THIS^
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 19, 2021 13:01:17 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 19, 2021 12:35:28 GMT -6
Is there any affordable capsule?
Looks like Heiserman's is $450. Plus shipping. Tim Campbell's is 2500 Danish Kroner, which is a little over $400 right now. Plus shipping.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 19, 2021 9:54:33 GMT -6
I'll say this, I have a friend with the Stam SA67 and I've heard quite a few clips of it so far. It sounds really good. Not quite as good as that friend's new U67 Reissue, but still really good. So if you can wait, you'll be waiting on a solid sounding mic. The price to performance ratio is always great with Stam. However, if you need to start recording projects I would find an alternative for now. Maybe a TLM67 or the new Warm will fit the bill for now. Then when your order is ready you can decide what to do. It's important to have some good tools now. I really liked the TLM67 when I had it. Its not as good as my Frankensteined MKU67, but still really solid. The Warm sounds ok from what I heard, but maybe a touch darker on the top end than a real U67.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 19, 2021 8:25:30 GMT -6
Thanks for this one and all the other suggestions. As always if I ask 10 people I get 20 opinions.
A friend suggested the WA 251 which he used for a long time, and he knows pretty much all the expensive stuff for decades. Owner of several Neumann Vintage Tube mics...
I think it's always a matter of using the gear. First hints aren't bad....
I see that Warm saved on the PSU and body.
I learned one lesson no more impulse buys.
I need to sleep over it.
I haven't been overly impressed by the WA251 personally, and this video really clinched it for me. You could grab the WA251 and swap the capsule though.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 19, 2021 6:52:07 GMT -6
A lot of people offered some good advice here. Now that I know your budget I can hone in a few thoughts of my own.
If you plan on using both your UMT70 and this new microphone for a possible duet with a female and male vocalist I would suggest you stay in the realm of FET mics. I tend to find it harder to mix duets when one vocalist is on a tube mic and the other is on a FET mic. Maybe its just me. If you're not worried about that specific task then you have a bunch of options.
FET mics:
U87ai - Don't discount a used U87ai for solid and more open female vocals. I know it's a touch more than your budget, but I thought I'd mention it. It's not the most open microphone on the planet, but it has a focus and openness that works for a lot of female vocalists. Shrill voices and nasal voices should be avoided though. The U87ai really shines with a vibey solid state preamp like a Neve 1073 or a cleaner tube preamp like a Demeter VTMP-2.
BLUE Kiwi - Utilizing BLUE's B6 capsule, which is a K67 style capsule tuned to be a bit like a CK12 capsule, this microphone is a bit like an even more modern sounding U87, with a little more in the high end and a deeper low end. I've used this microphone on duets I've done where I was on the U87ai and the female vocalist was on the Kiwi. Again, this shines though vibey solid state preamp like a 1073 or a cleaner tube preamp like a Demeter VTMP-2.
The Lauten Atlantis - This is a pretty cool microphone with multiple voice settings. The forward setting is more open than the U87ai and reminds me of what a FET 251 might sound like. I've used the microphone myself and Emily. All the settings are really nice and useful.
Tube Microphones:
Avantone CV12 (my thoughts) - I liked this microphone better than others on this board and if you can grab one for $600 or less it's ok, but it's still a touch cheap sounding. I had a pair of TNC ACM-1200s which is the early Chinese microphone that would become the CV12. We used a Mullard tube in it for harmonics and for a slightly beefier sound. I did a pretty nice pop recording as a gift for my mother that featured myself, my brother & sister, and my wife, and we all used the ACM-1200. That said, I had Advanced Audio mod both into there CM12SE and CM251.
Advanced Audio, Warm, and Peluso (my thoughts) - These will all give you more open sound, but in my opinion they all still sound cheap. I think the AA CM12SE and CM251 where more even sounding than the ACM-1200, but I'm not sure that made them that much better better. The conversion of course replaced the generic K67 capsule with a CEK-12 style capsule, corrected a circuit issue and replaced the generic transformer. The CEK12 capsule is also the capsule used in the Warm WA251. John Peluso designed the CEK12 for is P12 and P22 251 microphones. It's a modified edge terminated version of the K67 designed to have a similar frequency response to the CK12. It is much easier to manufacture, but only sounds ok. I never loved the CM12SE or CM251. They were ok.
If you really have your heart set on a tube microphone I would save a little more and increase your budget, or reach out to Barbaric and have a microphone custom made. He will guide you through what your options are and where to get the parts. If you choose to build a 251 or C12 style mic start with a great capsule; The Heiserman CK12 has a very good reputation and of course there is Tim's which everyone really loves and as you can see from his posts, he stands behind them and builds them with a lot of care. From there you can weigh your transformer options and choose how much you want to spend on the body kit. If you're not obsessed with that, go with a generic kit and save a few bucks.
I've come to this point in my own journey where I really understand the phrase "buy cheap, buy twice." I have also found that your are often better with a really good FET mic through a good preamp than a cheap tube microphone. Anyway, those are just my thoughts for what they are worth.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 18, 2021 20:08:00 GMT -6
It’s indistinguishable from the reissue if you mod it with the Neumann BV12. Otherwise it’s a touch dark. Is that the 2nd revision of the max mod mkII? Or just with the BV12? I believe mine has the dual BV12’s? At least it says BV12 twice and it looks like two transformers? Not sure going to have to look at it again. I’ve been using my U87ai with a Focusrite 110 with an AS LA-2A with much success! Sounds like a record👍🏻 I had an MKII with the reissue mode. I had the reissue mode removed and the rolloff restored. Then we swapped the BV12, which does indeed look like 2 pieces, but is only a single BV12. I also swapped out the output capacitor for a NOS original. To complete it I put a 1958 Amperex EF86 in it. It sounds incredible.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 18, 2021 17:41:55 GMT -6
The Max Mod option seems cool too... Chris It’s indistinguishable from the reissue if you mod it with the Neumann BV12. Otherwise it’s a touch dark.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 18, 2021 17:25:50 GMT -6
I really liked the TLM67 when I had it. It’s not a U67, but it’s solid.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 18, 2021 11:39:25 GMT -6
The short answer is the U87 is a very good mic.
The long answer is I use the my U87ai for tons of stuff around the studio. It's my go to for background vocals. I like it for shakers and various instruments; cello, acoustic guitar. I've used it and a custom U87 clone as a room pair for a string quartet. What I don't use it for a ton is lead vocals. I really like it on certain female vocals. Emily's voice is a prime example of how good that mic can sound on a full voiced soprano vocalist. However, put it on a thinner coloratura and it's shriek city. Nasal voices become even more nasal, at least on my U87ai. I find it sounds thinner on my voice than I would like, but it works fine. The key to it is finding a good preamp to accompany it. Where it shines if dense songs with big mixes, especially if you want to layer it. I particularly like it through a decent tube preamp like a Demeter VTMP-2 or a Neve 1073 or 1272. The U87 is a bit of a chameleon and will take on aspects of the preamp's character really well. Most of the time in my studio I reach for either the U67 or FleA 49 for lead vocals.
Still, it's a pretty solid vocal mic. I will admit that recently I did a pop/Christian sort of David Phelps style studio vocal single where the U87 was the clear winner for the client on my vocal, and I really agreed with him. I gave him a quick verse & chorus using the U87ai, U67, and FleA 49 before I started work on the vocal. Here is the finished product. (I did not mix this).
We also used it on all the vocals for my first album through a Summit MPC-100 preamp at Gurari Studios. Here is my main stream classical crossover song:
On the classical pieces on the album we again used the U87ai through a Summit MPC-100 preamp. We also added a BLUE Woodpecker for some warmth, and a Royer SF12 in the hall to capture the beautiful hall at the NY Opera Center where I recorded it.
I have a bunch of shootouts featuring my U87ai on my own YouTube Channel. You can heat it next to the Chandler Redd, RMS 269, FleA 47, and a slew of Advanced Audio mics and Slate VMS emulations: www.youtube.com/c/ElegantVintageEntertainment
These days there are other options for workhorses. I like the Lauten Atlantis which has multiple voicings. On the more modern side the BLUE Kiwi is also very nice and U87ish. Still, if you want the U87 sound go for the U87. Hearing good things about the Serrano 87 too.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 18, 2021 10:02:52 GMT -6
If you want to hear what the V comp does, send me a raw file and I’ll run it through mine and send it back.
As for mics, I might look at a 251 and hear what that does. I really like what the M149 is doing for your vocals here. The U47 might be too big, unless it’s a ballad without a ton of layers. Or a U47 lead vocal with the M149 on the layers.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 16, 2021 13:45:06 GMT -6
I was just gifted one of these. I can't wait t get it set up!
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 15, 2021 4:47:17 GMT -6
I hate that he uses EQ from the get go on all the mics, but this is still an interesting mic shootout. The vintage 251 and C24 sound amazing. The Mic Parts reminds me of my old Advanced Audio CM12SE. The Warm doesn’t fair as well and his reaction to it is kind of funny.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 9, 2021 15:29:58 GMT -6
Great new book to read on my birthday. Love reading these types of books but you never get the time to sit down and get into them without being interrupted By something. Anyone else read this audio book? View AttachmentI caved... http://instagram.com/p/CNdRoTEB-hF
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 6, 2021 21:05:11 GMT -6
I may be down for a pair of these also, just not sure I have the stomach for the process. I'd love it if they could just build a bunch and put them for sale. I can't figure out the business model for the life of me. It seems exhausting, putting out fires constantly when the time and energy could be used to build and sell.
If not the Stam, are there any other serious contenders for 67 clones coming down the pike soon?
I *really* like the ADK Z67. Modeled more on the M269, but a very 3D microphone. So strong on male vocal. Google can lead you to some otherwise more convincing takes on the mic. Another company in my experience which combines outstanding communication with customer service. Their Z251 is mighty good, too. If you’re going for the M269 sound grab an RMS 269. It’s seriously good. It’s not the same as the U67 though.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 6, 2021 12:59:57 GMT -6
This is one of the few clips I've been able to find the UT FET47.
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