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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2021 20:53:28 GMT -6
Here's the scenario...I like to have pairs of mics. I'm rethinking my setup. Streamlining things and trying to figure out where LDC Tube mics fall into my future. So if I were to buy two different Tube Mics what would the best combo be? I'm leaning towards clones of the classics (u47/u48, u67, Elam 251, C12, m49 etc.). Price range would be around $2k each, $4k total, but could stretch a little more if I have to. I want multi pattern (at least cardiod and figure 8).
I'd be using them, in order of importance on:
1) Vocals of all kinds (male/female, modern/vintage, singersongwriter, all genres) 2) Acoustic guitar 3) Drum Rooms and/or OH 4) Miscellaneous acoustic instruments (cello, piano etc)
Mics that I've been considering:
Signal Arts u48 ADK z-67 ADK z-251 BeesNeez Arabella BeesNeez Mahalia BeesNeez Phelicity
Assume that I have Fet mics, dynamics and ribbons already covered. Also, for reference I'm somewhat familiar with u47 and u67 clones, but other than that my experience with the classic mics are very limited. I'd be buying them one at time.
So whats the best, non-similar, pair of tube mics that will cover the most ground? Interested in what you all have to say.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 23, 2021 21:04:50 GMT -6
Lawson makes a really cool kit that includes a tube body and a FET body, plus a 251 style head and a 47 style head. The combination offers a lot of sonic possibilities, the build quality is excellent, and the mics sound great. I'd highly recommend that kit.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2021 21:39:29 GMT -6
Lawson makes a really cool kit that includes a tube body and a FET body, plus a 251 style head and a 47 style head. The combination offers a lot of sonic possibilities, the build quality is excellent, and the mics sound great. I'd highly recommend that kit. I’ve thought of that, thanks. Have you heard the Lawson 251? I’m interested in how it sounds. To be honest I’m not sure that the Lawson is a keeper though. I just got it a few months ago and I haven’t had a chance to hear it on enough sources to tell. I haven’t worked with a lot of singers since quarantine. If I do go that route I’d probably get the ADK z-67 at some point to compliment it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 23, 2021 21:42:27 GMT -6
Well, you definitely want one Neumann style tube mic. The 47 or 67 will do most anything. I prefer 67's. Since we're talking two different styles, I'd say the other one should be a C12 or ELA M251 type. They're different and both are on the greatest records of all time.
If you had a bigger budget I'd say would start with Chandler's REDD 47. The best mic I've heard in your price range is the Stam SA67, but they're not making them right this minute because of Covid complications. I haven't heard a lot of ADK files, but found the ones I did hear to be kind of flat and lifeless.
I would trust Chad at Signal Arts to get you a Neumann style mic that's pro.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 23, 2021 22:40:33 GMT -6
Well, you definitely want one Neumann style tube mic. The 47 or 67 will do most anything. I prefer 67's. Since we're talking two different styles, I'd say the other one should be a C12 or ELA M251 type. They're different and both are on the greatest records of all time. If you had a bigger budget I'd say would start with Chandler's REDD 47. The best mic I've heard in your price range is the Stam SA67, but they're not making them right this minute because of Covid complications. I haven't heard a lot of ADK files, but found the ones I did hear to be kind of flat and lifeless. I would trust Chad at Signal Arts to get you a Neumann style mic that's pro. Im getting the feeling that a Signal Arts u48 will be hard to beat. I’ve heard the Stam is excellent but for personal reason I won’t buy any of his stuff. I’ve owned two different ADK mics now and I really like them. I’ve only had their mid level mics so I can’t personally speak for the higher end stuff they do, but the ADK’s I’ve had sounded fantastic for their price range. It prompted me to sell my Miktek cv4. It seems that their stand out mics are the z-67 and a-251. Did you every get a chance to hear either of those? I’m interested in your opinion, thanks.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 23, 2021 23:47:45 GMT -6
Lawson makes a really cool kit that includes a tube body and a FET body, plus a 251 style head and a 47 style head. The combination offers a lot of sonic possibilities, the build quality is excellent, and the mics sound great. I'd highly recommend that kit. I’ve thought of that, thanks. Have you heard the Lawson 251? I’m interested in how it sounds. To be honest I’m not sure that the Lawson is a keeper though. I just got it a few months ago and I haven’t had a chance to hear it on enough sources to tell. I haven’t worked with a lot of singers since quarantine. If I do go that route I’d probably get the ADK z-67 at some point to compliment it. Yep, I own one. I bought it after a colleague brought his to shoot out against my studio's Upton 251. I preferred the Lawson on every instrumental source. After that, I went ahead and bought one for myself (in the form of the aforementioned 47/251/tube/FET kit). As an added bonus, their 47 FET beats out my soundelux ifet7 mic, which had been my go-to for the usual 47 FET duties. I'm honestly reluctant to hype them up too much online because i would like another kit and don't want the prices to go up. I got mine for a friggin song and wanna get the second kit for similar money.
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Post by recordingengineer on Apr 24, 2021 1:01:27 GMT -6
I’m a Barbaric Amplification nut... M269 and C12 or 251 or 47 types seem about right.
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 24, 2021 1:58:07 GMT -6
I’ve thought of that, thanks. Have you heard the Lawson 251? I’m interested in how it sounds. To be honest I’m not sure that the Lawson is a keeper though. I just got it a few months ago and I haven’t had a chance to hear it on enough sources to tell. I haven’t worked with a lot of singers since quarantine. If I do go that route I’d probably get the ADK z-67 at some point to compliment it. Yep, I own one. I bought it after a colleague brought his to shoot out against my studio's Upton 251. I preferred the Lawson on every instrumental source. After that, I went ahead and bought one for myself (in the form of the aforementioned 47/251/tube/FET kit). As an added bonus, their 47 FET beats out my soundelux ifet7 mic, which had been my go-to for the usual 47 FET duties. I'm honestly reluctant to hype them up too much online because i would like another kit and don't want the prices to go up. I got mine for a friggin song and wanna get the second kit for similar money. Sounds awesome. How does the tube 47 sound?
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 24, 2021 9:00:39 GMT -6
I’m a Barbaric Amplification nut... M269 and C12 or 251 or 47 types seem about right. Ive looked into Barbaric, looks like a great option. I’m a little reluctant to go that route only because if I don’t love the mic resale will be difficult with something custom made like that...idk I’m probably over thinking it.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 24, 2021 9:03:09 GMT -6
Yep, I own one. I bought it after a colleague brought his to shoot out against my studio's Upton 251. I preferred the Lawson on every instrumental source. After that, I went ahead and bought one for myself (in the form of the aforementioned 47/251/tube/FET kit). As an added bonus, their 47 FET beats out my soundelux ifet7 mic, which had been my go-to for the usual 47 FET duties. I'm honestly reluctant to hype them up too much online because i would like another kit and don't want the prices to go up. I got mine for a friggin song and wanna get the second kit for similar money. Sounds awesome. How does the tube 47 sound? Excellent! Not really as thick as a real 47, and definitely a bit brighter, but in a way that sounds more “finished” than the raw capture of a 47. If that makes any sense. One of of these days I’ll compare it directly to my studio’s tele 48 reissue, though in my very non scientific / anecdotal experience, I prefer the Lawson.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 24, 2021 9:07:38 GMT -6
For voice, 251 and 47, those will cover most voices I believe. They are the most useful styles I have found. For instruments, as a third mic, a U67 style would be really nice, I like those types of capsules on instruments such as drums, guitar amps, etc. Can work on the right voice as well of course. C12 style I would really like on acoustic instruments, guitar, cymbals, people talk about pianos but I don't have an acoustic piano. These are the styles I am familiar with, and things I tend to use them on.
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2021 9:11:51 GMT -6
Vintage U87 and vintage KM84.
Not always the best in class but always in the top-3 for everything.
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Post by bricejchandler on Apr 24, 2021 9:20:15 GMT -6
Sounds awesome. How does the tube 47 sound? Excellent! Not really as thick as a real 47, and definitely a bit brighter, but in a way that sounds more “finished” than the raw capture of a 47. If that makes any sense. One of of these days I’ll compare it directly to my studio’s tele 48 reissue, though in my very non scientific / anecdotal experience, I prefer the Lawson. Interesting. I've listened to some examples online and none really sound U47ish. It sounds very nice and sounds like it would probably be more useful for modern music. The Studio I often work at has a 47 and I barely ever use it, I love it for folky stuff but most clients want a much much brighter sound these days, it barely ever gets picked.
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Post by drbill on Apr 24, 2021 9:53:37 GMT -6
Vintage U87 and vintage KM84. Not always the best in class but always in the top-3 for everything. Yeah Ward - I agree, but he wanted tubes. So let's change that to U67 and KM54. <thumbsup>
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2021 9:57:29 GMT -6
Vintage U87 and vintage KM84. Not always the best in class but always in the top-3 for everything. Yeah Ward - I agree, but he wanted tubes. So let's change that to U67 and KM54. <thumbsup> Can't always read a crowd, a facial expression or a post apparently.
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Post by drbill on Apr 24, 2021 10:02:14 GMT -6
Evidently there's a lot of that going around Ward Omnivorous . Seems he wants LDCs. We both fail!!
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Post by srb on Apr 24, 2021 10:25:04 GMT -6
ADK z67 and z251 owner here. They never disappoint.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 24, 2021 10:56:01 GMT -6
Evidently there's a lot of that going around Ward Omnivorous . Seems he wants LDCs. We both fail!! haha, good suggestions either way guys! I have my FET mics sorted out though. Just trying to figure out what the most powerful combo of tube mics would be.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 24, 2021 10:57:26 GMT -6
ADK z67 and z251 owner here. They never disappoint. Good to hear! Question for you, have you used either on drums? And how does the z-251 sound on singer songwriters, playing acoustic and singing at the same time?
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Post by srb on Apr 24, 2021 11:27:55 GMT -6
ADK z67 and z251 owner here. They never disappoint. Good to hear! Question for you, have you used either on drums? And how does the z-251 sound on singer songwriters, playing acoustic and singing at the same time? I have used neither on drums, so I can't be of much help there. (I'm set in my ways on drum recording for the most part.) On the z251, are you implying as a single mic? If so, no experience there.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 24, 2021 11:31:39 GMT -6
Good to hear! Question for you, have you used either on drums? And how does the z-251 sound on singer songwriters, playing acoustic and singing at the same time? I have used neither on drums, so I can't be of much help there. (I'm set in my ways on drum recording for the most part.) On the z251, are you implying as a single mic? If so, no experience there. I was wondering how the z-251 held up on singer songwriters in any regard. I typically record people with a figure eight mic for vocals and another figure eight for guitar, but have done much more experimenting with single mic captures lately. I assume a 251 style mic would be great for this but don’t really know.
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Post by srb on Apr 24, 2021 11:44:24 GMT -6
I have used neither on drums, so I can't be of much help there. (I'm set in my ways on drum recording for the most part.) On the z251, are you implying as a single mic? If so, no experience there. I was wondering how the z-251 held up on singer songwriters in any regard. I typically record people with a figure eight mic for vocals and another figure eight for guitar, but have done much more experimenting with single mic captures lately. I assume a 251 style mic would be great for this but don’t really know. Your approach is certainly a serviceable one. Gotta love the nulls in figure 8. Certainly helps in keeping guitar out of a vocal mic when that's desired. I've used a large number of mics for recording acoustic guitar, the z251 among them. Cardioid mostly...or a tick to figure 8. A good instrument is where it starts for me. Next is mic position aim/proximity. The preamp/comp it feeds is last. I'd like to think you can make an acoustic guitar capture sound good, given a decent room and a good condenser mic of some sort. You'll certainly be able to do that with a z251.
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Post by drumsound on Apr 24, 2021 12:01:50 GMT -6
Looking at your list, I'd pick the Signal Arts U48 and ADK Zmod 251. I have really enjoyed samples I've heard.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 24, 2021 15:18:02 GMT -6
Excellent! Not really as thick as a real 47, and definitely a bit brighter, but in a way that sounds more “finished” than the raw capture of a 47. If that makes any sense. One of of these days I’ll compare it directly to my studio’s tele 48 reissue, though in my very non scientific / anecdotal experience, I prefer the Lawson. Interesting. I've listened to some examples online and none really sound U47ish. It sounds very nice and sounds like it would probably be more useful for modern music. The Studio I often work at has a 47 and I barely ever use it, I love it for folky stuff but most clients want a much much brighter sound these days, it barely ever gets picked. I had a pair of vintage 47s at my previous studio for a solid stretch. They sounded vastly different from one another. While my current spot was under construction, I was freelancing at a place with a pair of vintage 47s, and THOSE sound different from each other AND different from the pair we had at my shop. Mics that old all sound pretty radically different, which is why i'm a little disinclined to directly a/b a vintage mic (or really, any piece of gear) to its modern recreation to try to determine any sort of objective 'authenticity'. It's much more of a feel thing for me most of the time.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 24, 2021 15:24:21 GMT -6
Here's the scenario...I like to have pairs of mics. I'm rethinking my setup. Streamlining things and trying to figure out where LDC Tube mics fall into my future. So if I were to buy two different Tube Mics what would the best combo be? I'm leaning towards clones of the classics (u47/u48, u67, Elam 251, C12, m49 etc.). Price range would be around $2k each, $4k total, but could stretch a little more if I have to. I want multi pattern (at least cardiod and figure 8).
I'd be using them, in order of importance on:
1) Vocals of all kinds (male/female, modern/vintage, singersongwriter, all genres) 2) Acoustic guitar 3) Drum Rooms and/or OH 4) Miscellaneous acoustic instruments (cello, piano etc)
Mics that I've been considering:
Signal Arts u48 ADK z-67 ADK z-251 BeesNeez Arabella BeesNeez Mahalia BeesNeez Phelicity
Assume that I have Fet mics, dynamics and ribbons already covered. Also, for reference I'm somewhat familiar with u47 and u67 clones, but other than that my experience with the classic mics are very limited. I'd be buying them one at time.
So whats the best, non-similar, pair of tube mics that will cover the most ground? Interested in what you all have to say.
Pearlman TM-1. I have two, one wasn't enough.
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