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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 8, 2018 17:49:06 GMT -6
I’ll say it...I miss the Apollo console and ability to track with plugs. Not that I used it all the time...There is no doubt the Symphony sounds better, but I miss the ease of use of the Apollo. Guess I could buy a Twin Duo and get the BLA mod for the optical out...then use the Apollo as the front end by use the ADDA of the Apogee. Really wish UA would just come out with a new high(er) end box.
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Post by ragan on Jun 8, 2018 17:54:17 GMT -6
I miss some stuff about the Apollo platform too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 8, 2018 18:08:02 GMT -6
So I just started implementing the SumBus, right. I used the demo and routed it (somehow) a month or so ago...I COULD NOT get the effing thing routed this time. Took me three hours to figure it out. I’m not the smartest tool in the shed, and this “playback” “Mixer” “analog” shit is confusing as hell to me. Then throw in that the Symphony is 8 out, but really 6 out because 1 and 2 go to the monitors. So...I have to use my svartbox for two extra outs...but I have to mirror 1/2 on spdif coax to the SB, but then that’s actually called output 9/10 in pro tools, but some other shit in Apogee sw. My God it’s confusing. Finally got it to work. But it was extremely annoying. I also am still peeved I can’t send a Reverb signal to the phones...yeah, yeah I could do the input monitoring mute the audio but keep the aux open trick, but whoever thinks verb at 1024 samples is ok is crazy.
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Post by ragan on Jun 8, 2018 18:26:35 GMT -6
So I just started implementing the SumBus, right. I used the demo and routed it (somehow) a month or so ago...I COULD NOT get the effing thing routed this time. Took me three hours to figure it out. I’m not the smartest tool in the shed, and this “playback” “Mixer” “analog” shit is confusing as hell to me. Then throw in that the Symphony is 8 out, but really 6 out because 1 and 2 go to the monitors. So...I have to use my svartbox for two extra outs...but I have to mirror 1/2 on spdif coax to the SB, but then that’s actually called output 9/10 in pro tools, but some other shit in Apogee sw. My God it’s confusing. Finally got it to work. But it was extremely annoying. I also am still peeved I can’t send a Reverb signal to the phones...yeah, yeah I could do the input monitoring mute the audio but keep the aux open trick, but whoever thinks verb at 1024 samples is ok is crazy. Testify. Apollo is a huge bang for the buck. Best out there in my view.
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UA Apollo
Jun 8, 2018 18:28:18 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 8, 2018 18:28:18 GMT -6
I still prefer the symphony sound and don’t track with plugs but no question the ua console is an easier experience. I don’t mind the switching between mixer for tracking and playback for mixing but I find it harder to set levels for monitoring and tracking : apollo seemed easier? I’d be patient as apollo mkiii is getting closer and closer and I personally think it will be killer! I find the jury is still out for me otb vs itb, but the itb convenience factor is big vs analog gear. I find if I use my ob while tracking and plug ins mixing then ob ssl clone comp and eq on two buss, I get very good sound and a convenient experience. I do think the otb more visceral and that there seems more dynsmism or animation to the sound but there is that convenience factor and or I am getting lazier I am working on 14 songs for my album and have done itb and otb mixes and then got multiple keys parts for each song so have been remixing. I see this as a great learning experience, sure makes me respect all the work pro studios did with all those classic analog albums we all love. Anyway, hang in there JK, I’d save my pennies and hold out for the next apollo and enjoy that great symph mkii sound!
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Post by ragan on Jun 8, 2018 18:37:02 GMT -6
For me, the Symphony is still the best thing. I track with hardware EQ and comp, don't like reverb for the most part and just like the sound of the Symphony better. I also like having my dynamite AD and DA in one box.
But, as I've said many times, if I ever needed more of an all-in-one solution, I'd go back to the Apollo platform in a heartbeat.
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Post by bram on Jun 8, 2018 22:26:28 GMT -6
Anyway, hang in there JK, I’d save my pennies and hold out for the next apollo and enjoy that great symph mkii sound! The first gen Apollos were released in 2012 with the MKII's in 2015. By that time table, we are definitely due for the next iteration. The Apollo Twin iterations were 2014 and 2017 respectively, so probably another couple of years to go for that one unless they decide to take us to UAD3 land with the next boxes. There ain't a lot of bang for your buck with the current sharcs giving how DSP hungry the new plugins are getting.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 8, 2018 22:44:24 GMT -6
For me, the Symphony is still the best thing. I track with hardware EQ and comp, don't like reverb for the most part and just like the sound of the Symphony better. I also like having my dynamite AD and DA in one box. But, as I've said many times, if I ever needed more of an all-in-one solution, I'd go back to the Apollo platform in a heartbeat. I agree - I love having everything in one box and not having to patch in a da here or an ad there
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UA Apollo
Jun 8, 2018 22:47:21 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 8, 2018 22:47:21 GMT -6
Anyway, hang in there JK, I’d save my pennies and hold out for the next apollo and enjoy that great symph mkii sound! The first gen Apollos were released in 2012 with the MKII's in 2015. By that time table, we are definitely due for the next iteration. The Apollo Twin iterations were 2014 and 2017 respectively, so probably another couple of years to go for that one unless they decide to take us to UAD3 land with the next boxes. There ain't a lot of bang for your buck with the current sharcs giving how DSP hungry the new plugins are getting. If they came out with new gen adda that I’m sure would be a step up, I’d switch back in a second. Even though ua has blown me off at every turn I’m not bitter lol 😂
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 8, 2018 23:02:38 GMT -6
I wish Radar studio's were more affordable. Killer AD/DA, and simple to use.
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Post by bram on Jun 8, 2018 23:33:53 GMT -6
If they came out with new gen adda that I’m sure would be a step up, I’d switch back in a second. Even though ua has blown me off at every turn I’m not bitter lol 😂 I guess that answers my question about your UA dealer status.
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 2:34:42 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 9, 2018 2:34:42 GMT -6
I expect the apollo mkiii to have: - improved ad and da - a entirely new internal architecture to at least double current throughput that limits processing to 4 current share chips, - I expect the now not new but sort of dual core share chips or one’s capable of much more processing, - other features, maybe improved headphone linearity and other software features in consoles,saving session labels, improved midi control etc.. I think UA needs to step up big time and hope that it does. As I sold all my UA stuff it would not be an easy decision to buy back in as aspects of the post sale closed universe really bugged me but being able to sell individual plug ins would address that. When I sold I thought I really used about 10 of my almost 80 plug ins so I thought the 10 plug deal would be the way to go and then don’t get sucked into to buying more. The current 13 plug deal is alluring but I’d need another Octo, although I know people selling used ones, rather wait. Getting back to JK’s point it is a little weird how relatively cumbersome the apogee controller is to a previous UA user and that part of console is missed and when I did track with plugs, you knew exactly what that would sound like printed so like using OB on the way in. I notice some of my 14 songs have a special quality and they were recorded when I had my dizengof d4 and my mk-u47: gone now, .
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 9, 2018 5:29:08 GMT -6
I feel the same here. The Symphony workflow is a drag. The output labels and routing schemes are unnecessarily convoluted. Routing headphone mixes is cumbersome, not to mention reverb monitoring. I prefer the Apollo workflow by a mile, and sometimes its almost enough to make me switch back, especially when things aren't working in Symphony.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2018 6:06:58 GMT -6
If they came out with new gen adda that I’m sure would be a step up, I’d switch back in a second. Even though ua has blown me off at every turn I’m not bitter lol 😂 I guess that answers my question about your UA dealer status. Nope, I can sell it.
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 6:09:16 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2018 6:09:16 GMT -6
I feel the same here. The Symphony workflow is a drag. The output labels and routing schemes are unnecessarily convoluted. Routing headphone mixes is cumbersome, not to mention reverb monitoring. I prefer the Apollo workflow by a mile, and sometimes its almost enough to make me switch back, especially when things aren't working in Symphony. I still don’t know how to use the FX send
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 9, 2018 6:52:47 GMT -6
I feel the same here. The Symphony workflow is a drag. The output labels and routing schemes are unnecessarily convoluted. Routing headphone mixes is cumbersome, not to mention reverb monitoring. I prefer the Apollo workflow by a mile, and sometimes its almost enough to make me switch back, especially when things aren't working in Symphony. I still don’t know how to use the FX send It's a b**ch, and then you gotta deal with the latency.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 9, 2018 6:53:52 GMT -6
And it's like "why?" Why is it such a pain? Why can't I have low latency reverb? All of these other companies can give me that, but not Apogee? Why?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2018 7:39:41 GMT -6
And it's like "why?" Why is it such a pain? Why can't I have low latency reverb? All of these other companies can give me that, but not Apogee? Why? That's what I'm saying. Why not spend $5 on a cheap chinese dsp that allows you to throw in some freaking verb into the monitoring chain?
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 13:06:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 9, 2018 13:06:37 GMT -6
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 14:49:09 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 9, 2018 14:49:09 GMT -6
Nice but even used that’s close to 10 grand cdn for 8 channels ?
I really don’t understand Radar pricing .
2 grand buys you a pretty good computer so another 8 grand for 8 converters: used ?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 9, 2018 16:46:26 GMT -6
Not bad. Still..so pricey for just 8ch. And max is 24ch. Plus the NYQST converter are where the magic is.
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Post by popmann on Jun 9, 2018 17:37:48 GMT -6
I’m going to point out the irony that use of UA plug ins anywhere in your playback (daw) mixer is the primary reason you have to “deal with latency” at all. You DO understand that? That the time it takes to send out the thunderbolt or firewire buss, process and return HAS to be compensated for by the DAW—thus pushing playback further from “now”, ie:latent playback.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 9, 2018 17:46:28 GMT -6
I guess if they had actual representatives to come to your studio and demonstrate their product and show you the workflow and the easiest way to use it in a real tracking session, I could find some extra money to get into a new system. I'm just real stumped when it comes to workflow vs. sound quality. It's so expensive and once you have been there done that throughout the years of this industry with the upgrades as technology has advanced, you wonder what system is going to provide you with exactly what you want. After getting suckered into the Apollo Silverface BS, I'm very careful now about my next upgrade. It would take a UA rep to come to my place and hook it up, do a session, and then I would decide after that whether their product is worth the $1000 I would give them for their newer BF mkII interface. There is always a compromise, and with our technology, there should be no excuses to put out a solid product that works for you. I'm still on my old 16X Symphony 64 Thunderbridge system, and this workflow is also wonky with the I/O. After hearing that they haven't changed the workflow that much with the newer Apogee converters, maybe I'm looking at the wrong upgrade. I've been looking for a mobile interface for tracking drums in different spaces. An all in one solution with my laptop, or just do the Superior Drummer thing, not sure yet. I heard the Ensemble sounds better than the 16X converters from a good source(Apogee) and it has preamps and enough I/O to do the drums and mobile applications. Then there is RME stepping up their game. Then Steinberg with their new Rupert Neve Designs boxes with the Transformers, but I need at least 16 channels. A lot of innovation and technology, but in the real world beyond manufacturer hype, I want the truth and a product demonstration before I just buy and try and send back. I do also like the workflow of the Apollo, but the quality of sound was unacceptable when it sounded a lot worse than my 16X converters. It made no sense at all to have higher end pieces if you are using an Apollo Silverface interface to me.
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 18:51:36 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 9, 2018 18:51:36 GMT -6
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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 20:18:58 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2018 20:18:58 GMT -6
I’m going to point out the irony that use of UA plug ins anywhere in your playback (daw) mixer is the primary reason you have to “deal with latency” at all. You DO understand that? That the time it takes to send out the thunderbolt or firewire buss, process and return HAS to be compensated for by the DAW—thus pushing playback further from “now”, ie:latent playback. You’re not understanding this. I am very well aware of what causes latency. You DO understand this, right? All I’m saying is I like the workflow of console better.
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