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UA Apollo
Jun 11, 2018 17:12:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 11, 2018 17:12:55 GMT -6
Well an 8p with a bla mod is the price of the DM convert 8 isn’t ?
If you don’t care about unison or tracking with plugs consider others or if you do want that, Apollo’s your play.
I just worry about you getting something than not being happy ?
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 11, 2018 17:22:40 GMT -6
Well an 8p with a bla mod is the price of the DM convert 8 isn’t ? If you don’t care about unison or tracking with plugs consider others or if you do want that, Apollo’s your play. I just worry about you getting something than not being happy ? Ever since my last experience with the Apollo SF 1st Gen converter, I don't want to go back there again. I need to bridge the gap between pro and consumer. The Apollo Silverface was consumer in my book, not pro sounding. I will be happy with my next purchase, and I will see to it that if I have to send back every piece for a month until I'm happy. I will not be suckered into manufacturing hype again. My Apogee Symphony rig is starting to show it's age and I'm ready for an upgrade, however my studio has expanded and now I need more I/O for other projects coming in for the analog processing. I was thinking about just staying where I am and just buying another 16x D/A and expanding my I/O, however I have decided to move forward with the technology and not just stay where I'm at. I'm not totally sold on the New Apogee because of workflow. I have the Symphony rig now with the Thunderbridge, and to be honest it's needs an overhaul.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 11, 2018 17:39:58 GMT -6
I think you're letting this paralyze you. I - for one - wouldn't go with a Blackface Apollo at this point...I would guess a new one is close.
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Post by popmann on Jun 11, 2018 18:49:11 GMT -6
I don't think ANYONE will confuse me for a fan of UA....and yes--a remote band/drum kit tracking is THE use this system, IMO. Rack with 2 Apollo 8pre.....couple grand in plug ins....specially--unison Neve and API channels, Oceanway Room, SPL Transsient Designer, IBP....maybe a La3a for the kick....EMT Plate....maybe an Unison Ampeg for the Bass DI.....anyway--a rack with those two units and a MacBook sitting on top of it....is your remote rig. You know--an an entire van full of cables and stands and mics. That is barre none, THE slickest solution for remote recording. And to temper that I would also NOT use that to mix. You CAN....but, I'm saying as a remote band tracking rig--that's stellar, as a mix rig? Ehh. It will do because others will attest, I'm not that picky. ....but, there's nothing terribly efficient or slick about hamfisted $4k DSP flying tons of channels of HD audio over thunderbolt and increasing the latency of the whole system by what I'll just call the very scientific "a shit ton", only to run out of juice before your $300 intel middle of the road CPU does. If that's the gig, this is the tool.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 11, 2018 20:05:40 GMT -6
I think you're letting this paralyze you. I - for one - wouldn't go with a Blackface Apollo at this point...I would guess a new one is close. I don't think ANYONE will confuse me for a fan of UA....and yes--a remote band/drum kit tracking is THE use this system, IMO. Rack with 2 Apollo 8pre.....couple grand in plug ins....specially--unison Neve and API channels, Oceanway Room, SPL Transsient Designer, IBP....maybe a La3a for the kick....EMT Plate....maybe an Unison Ampeg for the Bass DI.....anyway--a rack with those two units and a MacBook sitting on top of it....is your remote rig. You know--an an entire van full of cables and stands and mics. That is barre none, THE slickest solution for remote recording. And to temper that I would also NOT use that to mix. You CAN....but, I'm saying as a remote band tracking rig--that's stellar, as a mix rig? Ehh. It will do because others will attest, I'm not that picky. ....but, there's nothing terribly efficient or slick about hamfisted $4k DSP flying tons of channels of HD audio over thunderbolt and increasing the latency of the whole system by what I'll just call the very scientific "a shit ton", only to run out of juice before your $300 intel middle of the road CPU does. If that's the gig, this is the tool. Thank you both for your insight, with special thanks to Kcat as well. I think the biggest problem is that I have the plans on the table, I can get the work. I have my own personal projects and things are moving forward. Yes, nailed it John. It is paralyzing me because I am pissed about my setup! I need to bridge that gap. A mobile rig and a way to hook up my Dangerous 2 Buss+ with my outboard in a DAW hybrid configuration, configured right for a total pro solution.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 11, 2018 20:16:41 GMT -6
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 11, 2018 20:25:42 GMT -6
If you bought a used Burl Bomber A-D, and D-A and added them to an Apollo rig, would the sound then equal the Symphony? You know I thought that myself. That was what I was going to try, but it's just crazy knowing you might return something you are buying before you get it. Pain in the butt! That is why I mentioned the company product specialist coming out to your place to bring the product, configure it, and show you how it works by running through a session with you. You demo it for a day with a company rep and you make your decision once you see it actually work and how it sounds in your own room! You get to experience the product first hand with no manufacturer BS! Everything looks good in a video, it all changes once you get it hooked up in your room though.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 11, 2018 20:30:59 GMT -6
That SSL Nucleus has A/D-D/A. Is it any good?
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Post by drsax on Jun 11, 2018 21:12:54 GMT -6
If you bought a used Burl Bomber A-D, and D-A and added them to an Apollo rig, would the sound then equal the Symphony? You know I thought that myself. That was what I was going to try, but it's just crazy knowing you might return something you are buying before you get it. Pain in the butt! That is why I mentioned the company product specialist coming out to your place to bring the product, configure it, and show you how it works by running through a session with you. You demo it for a day with a company rep and you make your decision once you see it actually work and how it sounds in your own room! You get to experience the product first hand with no manufacturer BS! Everything looks good in a video, it all changes once you get it hooked up in your room though. if you’re ever near Denver, I’d be happy to spend a day taking you through my system which is setup similar to above. I use the digital I/o’s On my Apollo 8 and two Apollo 16’s (all mkii) to interface with my Burl AD, Hilo Master buss ADDA and Da for monitoring, and the other for the digital connection to my Bricasti reverb. And the Twin mkii for talkback. It’s pretty slick and sounds great
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 12, 2018 4:56:40 GMT -6
With respect Drsax that better sound pretty damn fine as its, like what 10 grand worth of conversion ? pushing an apollo mix through the b2 is a very nice sound. I am like Ragan and think sometimes about getting a used b2 with my symphony mkii it adds the two extra channels as with symphony you lose the 1-2 to monitoring unlike the apollo or like mikec get the new mastering 2 channel apogee module which like the burl adds the digital i/o back to my 16x16 apogee I used b2 is what 1600 plus usd ? A new apollo 8p is $2500 ? so 4100 ? A nucleus is an expensive controller with only 2 channel of conversion I think ? If you don't want to track with UA plugs so it doesn't seem like the apollo should be first choice now ? I am with Johnken and would wait for the apollo mkiii, which should step up from all current features of mkii. or this apogee ? www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/1218147-apogee-electronics-symphony-i-o-8x8-8mp.html
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 12, 2018 6:23:37 GMT -6
That SSL Nucleus has A/D-D/A. Is it any good? They're mid range converters - I'm sure they sound pretty good though. An SSL Nucleus 2 with a Dante card and then adding 32 I/O of Focusrite Rednet over Dante would be fab - but pricey!
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 12, 2018 7:07:50 GMT -6
With respect Drsax that better sound pretty damn fine as its, like what 10 grand worth of conversion ? pushing an apollo mix through the b2 is a very nice sound. I am like Ragan and think sometimes about getting a used b2 with my symphony mkii it adds the two extra channels as with symphony you lose the 1-2 to monitoring unlike the apollo or like mikec get the new mastering 2 channel apogee module which like the burl adds the digital i/o back to my 16x16 apogee I used b2 is what 1600 plus usd ? A new apollo 8p is $2500 ? so 4100 ? A nucleus is an expensive controller with only 2 channel of conversion I think ? If you don't want to track with UA plugs so it doesn't seem like the apollo should be first choice now ? I am with Johnken and would wait for the apollo mkiii, which should step up from all current features of mkii. or this apogee ? www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/1218147-apogee-electronics-symphony-i-o-8x8-8mp.html Adding an external DA to your Symphony 16 would not add 2 extra channels. You can only mirror the output of 1-2 using the spdif outs, so you still lose those two analog channels of DA.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 12, 2018 7:15:18 GMT -6
Don't believe that is true if you are not using all 16 channels in your mix or if you add the new master module ?
Or I was thinking with the b2 you could print your 2 bus mix and then pass it through the b2.
Also as I use apple I was wondering about the aggregate device and using the b2 as master clock or experimenting.
But, If I was buying two more channels would do what mikec did, and get the new apogee 2 channel mastering module ?
I think there are options, just depends what you want to do ?
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 12, 2018 7:43:50 GMT -6
Don't believe that is true if you are not using all 16 channels in your mix or if you add the new master module ? Or I was thinking with the b2 you could print your 2 bus mix and then pass it through the b2. Also as I use apple I was wondering about the aggregate device and using the b2 as master clock or experimenting. But, If I was buying two more channels would do what mikec did, and get the new apogee 2 channel mastering module ? I think there are options, just depends what you want to do ? Not sure I understand what you're saying (or asking? I can't tell sometimes.) Anyways, if you're talking about DA monitoring off spdif on your Symphony 16MKII, the only option is mirroring. And with AD through spdif, the only option is replacing a pair of analog ins. So, you can't use spdif as extra i/o on the 16MKII.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 12, 2018 7:47:11 GMT -6
Unlike with Apollo 16MKII, where you can use AES as additional i/o, plus they give you dedicated monitor outs. Why, Apogee? Why can't you be cool like Apollo? You pay more and get less for marginally better conversion, and arguably worse workflow.
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Post by mikec on Jun 12, 2018 8:26:41 GMT -6
Having come from the Apollo 16MKII before moving to the the Symphony MKII, I was not unhappy with my Apollo and it met my needs. Nevertheless, I never used plugins during tracking anyway and for me it was refreshing moving to the Symphony and not having the extra UAD console open in the background, so it actually simplified my workflow. I use UAD plugins during mixing, having Quad and Octo Satellites, but never needed them during tracking. Was it more expensive going with the Symphony MKII 16x16 and adding the 2x6SE module ? absolutely, would I do it all over again given the choice? absolutely. This set up gives me everything I need for for the size of projects I do with no compromises. I have 22 analog out, 18 analog in, and the digital I/O I need to handle any of the singer/songwriter and small combos that I focus on. It may not work for everyone, but we are lucky to have so many high quality options to choose from at so many different price points.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 12, 2018 8:29:08 GMT -6
It's weird, in a bad way, how cumbersome the Apogee gui is, even after they redesigned it I have an older alesis mv iv in my rack, works fine, so i am planing on patching it in like mikec for verb , but I still find it harder to set levels between my tracking channel ad the mix, don't recall that with apollo ?
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Post by drsax on Jun 12, 2018 10:10:01 GMT -6
With respect Drsax that better sound pretty damn fine as its, like what 10 grand worth of conversion ? pushing an apollo mix through the b2 is a very nice sound. I am like Ragan and think sometimes about getting a used b2 with my symphony mkii it adds the two extra channels as with symphony you lose the 1-2 to monitoring unlike the apollo or like mikec get the new mastering 2 channel apogee module which like the burl adds the digital i/o back to my 16x16 apogee I used b2 is what 1600 plus usd ? A new apollo 8p is $2500 ? so 4100 ? A nucleus is an expensive controller with only 2 channel of conversion I think ? If you don't want to track with UA plugs so it doesn't seem like the apollo should be first choice now ? I am with Johnken and would wait for the apollo mkiii, which should step up from all current features of mkii. or this apogee ? www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/1218147-apogee-electronics-symphony-i-o-8x8-8mp.html it is a big investment for sure, but for approximately 50 channels of quality I/O it is an absolute bargain. And 4 ADDA channels of that are Burl and Hilo. To replicate this setup with just Symphony Mkii would cost me about $30.000, and I’d lose the workflow, and would have to invest in a seperate headphone cue system which is another several thousand dollars. My previous setup was a MADI system with Antelope Converters, and SSL Alphalink before that. They were coupled with a digital splitter and digital mixer for headphone cues. It was highly complex routing and convoluted. This current rig is one single TB cable to my computer, and four seperate cue mixes straight from the Apollos. If I need more headphone cues, I can do that using the Apollo 16 outputs to an external mixer. And thus far, the Apollo rig has been totally rock solid. No hiccups, no workarounds, no major issues Additionally, when I work remotely, I can grab a single interface or several, and take them with me with a single TB connection and not lose any functionality. Pretty cool!
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Post by drsax on Jun 12, 2018 10:21:41 GMT -6
FWIW, I’m not advocating Apollo over Symphony. The Apollo workflow is just far superior if using it for headphone cues, near no latency monitoring etc... I love the sound of Symphony. But I’ll also note that each converter has its strengths and weaknesses while both being excellent. Symphony is a bit more open and a tad softer and more rounded in some ways - but there’s a trade off for that. Especially in the low frequencies. The Apollo mkii low end is nice and fat but tighter and more desirable to me. Sits in a commercial mix easier for me. Likewise Burl and Hilo are very different. I love the Burl for tracking and getting those rounded softer transients, but for Mix Buss and DA monitoring, the honesty and unhyped Hilo is almost always more preferable to me. All great units, each with their own strengths
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 12, 2018 10:36:50 GMT -6
^^This^^
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 10:41:08 GMT -6
Surely buying a used Avid I/O would be a cheaper way to go. Can be had anywhere from 1000-2500 for 16x16. Granted...not gonna get a lot out of it unless your a PTHD user but still.
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Post by drsax on Jun 12, 2018 10:55:33 GMT -6
Surely buying a used Avid I/O would be a cheaper way to go. Can be had anywhere from 1000-2500 for 16x16. Granted...not gonna get a lot out of it unless your a PTHD user but still. I am mostly Cubase. Pro tools on occasion. For the new Avid I/O 16x16 it would be about $14,000 for 48 I/O and I’d lose the Burl and Hilo. Would be a possibility if I was a PT guy. This is what makes Apollo so attractive to me. Powerful, portable, cross platform, and compatibility with any DAW I am using
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 12, 2018 11:35:58 GMT -6
Surely buying a used Avid I/O would be a cheaper way to go. Can be had anywhere from 1000-2500 for 16x16. Granted...not gonna get a lot out of it unless your a PTHD user but still. I am mostly Cubase. Pro tools on occasion. For the new Avid I/O 16x16 it would be about $14,000 for 48 I/O and I’d lose the Burl and Hilo. Would be a possibility if I was a PT guy. This is what makes Apollo so attractive to me. Powerful, portable, cross platform, and compatibility with any DAW I am using I don't think you'd loose the Burl and Hilo. Each I/O has an AES port you can use for whatever you want. And again, I'm thinking used. You could have 48ch for around 7500 or even less if you shopped right. And could still use an external A/D for your 2 bus via AES if you wanted. hell you'd have 3 AES ports so could do a few things. Granted you're right, its a PT only setup so if you're not using that you're screwed. And not super portable boxes by any means.
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Post by drsax on Jun 12, 2018 12:58:23 GMT -6
I am mostly Cubase. Pro tools on occasion. For the new Avid I/O 16x16 it would be about $14,000 for 48 I/O and I’d lose the Burl and Hilo. Would be a possibility if I was a PT guy. This is what makes Apollo so attractive to me. Powerful, portable, cross platform, and compatibility with any DAW I am using I don't think you'd loose the Burl and Hilo. Each I/O has an AES port you can use for whatever you want. And again, I'm thinking used. You could have 48ch for around 7500 or even less if you shopped right. And could still use an external A/D for your 2 bus via AES if you wanted. hell you'd have 3 AES ports so could do a few things. Granted you're right, its a PT only setup so if you're not using that you're screwed. And not super portable boxes by any means. Gotcha... yeah I was quoting new prices on all my posts. And I meant for the same price new, with the PT I/O I’d be at 14-15k before adding the Burl and Hilo. My rig cost a fair bit less than that with the Burl and Hilo included as well as two free UAD TB Octo Accelerators so it was a no brainer for me. Either way, we are living in good times to make music. And back to the original post, the Apollo workflow has been outstanding!
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Post by guitfiddler on Jun 12, 2018 18:14:55 GMT -6
FWIW, I’m not advocating Apollo over Symphony. The Apollo workflow is just far superior if using it for headphone cues, near no latency monitoring etc... I love the sound of Symphony. But I’ll also note that each converter has its strengths and weaknesses while both being excellent. Symphony is a bit more open and a tad softer and more rounded in some ways - but there’s a trade off for that. Especially in the low frequencies. The Apollo mkii low end is nice and fat but tighter and more desirable to me. Sits in a commercial mix easier for me. Likewise Burl and Hilo are very different. I love the Burl for tracking and getting those rounded softer transients, but for Mix Buss and DA monitoring, the honesty and unhyped Hilo is almost always more preferable to me. All great units, each with their own strengths My goodness, it’s like I can almost hear what you describe.
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