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UA Apollo
Jun 9, 2018 20:25:43 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 9, 2018 20:25:43 GMT -6
Cubase separates the Aux into FX and group channels which makes that process entirely more complicated.
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 4:25:14 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2018 4:25:14 GMT -6
Frustrating, no work around in cube base ?
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 7:57:24 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by adamjbrass on Jun 10, 2018 7:57:24 GMT -6
Not bad. Still..so pricey for just 8ch. And max is 24ch. Plus the NYQST converter are where the magic is. Understood, but...Consider the cost of a New Computer, with many peripheral options (more than a new Mac) (also customized OEM OS for DAW usage) and a totally amazing 8channel Audio Interface (already inside it, ready to work) I think by that metric, it’s very reasonable deal. Maybe pricy new at $8500 but....
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Post by swurveman on Jun 10, 2018 8:12:36 GMT -6
Cubase separates the Aux into FX and group channels which makes that process entirely more complicated. Are you saying that the FX and/or Group channels you set up in Cubase aren't showing up in Symphony bus list?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 10, 2018 9:08:16 GMT -6
I've been on the sidelines with this for a long time. Mainly because I couldn't afford the Symphony anyway. I have always been clear that tracks done with the Symphony have sounded fuller, more 3D to my ears when compared to the Apollo.
So, assuming most of us use a different preamp for main tracks like vocals or guitars, the real issue is the Apollo's conversion, no?
The Project S2 is evidently a monster DAC, beating out all contenders at Jim William's place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they had an equivalent A-D converter, the problem would be solved, and we'd have super high end converters with the Apollo workflow.
I've only used an outboard DAC, never a A/D converter. Is it just too much of a PITA, or does it work easily?
I don't know about the BLA mod personally, but I've been told by people I trust that it can reach the Symphony level or surpass it. Has anyone actually heard a BLA MkII Apollo yet?
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Post by Quint on Jun 10, 2018 9:14:14 GMT -6
I've been on the sidelines with this for a long time. Mainly because I couldn't afford the Symphony anyway. I have always been clear that tracks done with the Symphony have sounded fuller, more 3D to my ears when compared to the Apollo. So, assuming most of us use a different preamp for main tracks like vocals or guitars, the real issue is the Apollo's conversion, no? The Project S2 is evidently a monster DAC, beating out all contenders at Jim William's place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they had an equivalent A-D converter, the problem would be solved, and we'd have super high end converters with the Apollo workflow. I've only used an outboard DAC, never a A/D converter. Is it just too much of a PITA, or does it work easily? I don't know about the BLA mod personally, but I've been told by people I trust that it can reach the Symphony level or surpass it. Has anyone actually heard a BLA MkII Apollo yet? I actually had a phone conversation with BLA about the MKII Apollo not too long ago and they said that, to date, no one had sent one in to be modified yet. Take that for whatever it's worth.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 10, 2018 9:39:25 GMT -6
I briefly tried the BLA Micro Clock III, and it was a definite improvement, the soundstage was more 3D. It would be great if that could be included in a BLA Apollo mod.
As for an Apollo Mk III, I'd almost bet the difference will be onboard DSP. If they upgraded the converters to final reach at least the Symphony level, then it would be a no brainer.
Perhaps the difference between the Symphony and the Apollo's sound is more than the converters though?
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Post by raddistribution on Jun 10, 2018 10:24:50 GMT -6
We have not done any mk2 apollo 16s at this time but we have done PLENTY of apollo twins, 8s and 8Ps.
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Post by bigbone on Jun 10, 2018 10:29:05 GMT -6
Is the UA Apollo THAT bad soundwise compare to the Apogee Symphony.
What about the Antelope product, Like the Orion Studio ?
Thank you
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Post by ragan on Jun 10, 2018 10:50:25 GMT -6
Is the UA Apollo THAT bad soundwise compare to the Apogee Symphony. What about the Antelope product, Like the Orion Studio ? Thank you No. It’s not. The difference is there but it’s not as big as their respective price/feature-set ratios would suggest.
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 10:59:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2018 10:59:33 GMT -6
Having had an Apollo silver face, it bla modded and the blackface and now the symphony mcii, as bla doesn’t upgrade the converters just the analog signal path and decoupling, I doubt that a bla modded would sound better than the symphony mkii.
The bla mod certainly made the SF more linear and apparently more detailed but for me their is an extra dimension to the symphony mkii, other things are better too: headphone out much improved.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2018 15:18:22 GMT -6
Yeah - we all make a big deal about this stuff - and that's what these kind of forums are about - but it's not like the Apollo MkII sounds bad at all. I'll just add that comparing the two, there is an objective difference however small...the Apogee to me seems less "forced" in the mids more relaxed...more bottom end - just possibly sounds more refined.
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Post by ragan on Jun 10, 2018 15:48:34 GMT -6
Yeah - we all make a big deal about this stuff - and that's what these kind of forums are about - but it's not like the Apollo MkII sounds bad at all. I'll just add that comparing the two, there is an objective difference however small...the Apogee to me seems less "forced" in the mids more relaxed...more bottom end - just possibly sounds more refined. Yeah when I listen to my Apollo tracks, after being on the Symphony for a good while now, I hear a little bit of congestion. Hard to describe but I can pick it out. The Symphony just sounds big and open and natural to me. I love it. I’ll probably get a Burl B2 again sometime down the road. There’s a lovely thing about the tracks I did with the Burl that I can’t seem to get any other way. Particularly on guitars. Low priority though. The Symphony is beautiful sounding.
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 16:21:23 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by nick8801 on Jun 10, 2018 16:21:23 GMT -6
You guys are making me want a Symphony. I have to say, I’m very happy with my Apollo 16 though. It was a major upgrade from my old silver 8. The DA made me sell my Dangerous Source as well. I wouldn’t mind a nice stereo AD for critical tracks. I haven’t looked in the back of the 16 in a while though. I wonder what I could hook up??
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Post by ragan on Jun 10, 2018 16:28:20 GMT -6
You guys are making me want a Symphony. I have to say, I’m very happy with my Apollo 16 though. It was a major upgrade from my old silver 8. The DA made me sell my Dangerous Source as well. I wouldn’t mind a nice stereo AD for critical tracks. I haven’t looked in the back of the 16 in a while though. I wonder what I could hook up?? Worth noting that your BF Apollo 16 has better DA than the Apollo 8’s that JohnKenn and Kcat and I were all using.
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Post by brenta on Jun 10, 2018 16:34:58 GMT -6
I’m going to point out the irony that use of UA plug ins anywhere in your playback (daw) mixer is the primary reason you have to “deal with latency” at all. You DO understand that? That the time it takes to send out the thunderbolt or firewire buss, process and return HAS to be compensated for by the DAW—thus pushing playback further from “now”, ie:latent playback. Only an issue if you are not direct monitoring. Otherwise you can run your buffer at max setting with tons of plugs (on non record enabled tracks) and still get basically zero latency with a UA interface. Also you don’t need to choose between Apollo and Apogee. I’m running 8 channels (used to be running 16 channels) of Apogee ad16x through the Apollo Lightpipe. I’d like to upgrade the ad16x to symphony eventually.
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Post by drsax on Jun 10, 2018 17:13:41 GMT -6
I agree with Johnkenn about the workflow. I am very happy with my Apollo setup. I have pretty decent size Apollo mkii setup (Apollo 8 mkii, two Apollo 16 mkii’s, twin quad mkii, and a couple octo accelerators that came free w my Apollo 16’s) coupled with a Burl AD for mono and stereo tracking, and a Lynx Hilo for DA monitoring and Master buss processing. The workflow and sound is stellar. And when I interface with Outboard and track drums using higher track counts, I’m using the Apollo conversion for that stuff. I am not feeling like I’m lacking at all. I had Antelope conversion before and also Lavry Blue, and definitely prefer the Apollo mkii, especially over the Antelope. The Antelope has a lot of high frequency build up. I was constantly cutting highs which were harsh. The Apollo is great sounding. It’s not Burl, but I it’s definitely pro. I’m happier with my current setup than I have been with anything previously. The headphone cue mixes are a very slick implementation. I’ve got lots of love for the mkii Apollo’s.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 10, 2018 17:53:14 GMT -6
You guys are making me want a Symphony. I have to say, I’m very happy with my Apollo 16 though. It was a major upgrade from my old silver 8. The DA made me sell my Dangerous Source as well. I wouldn’t mind a nice stereo AD for critical tracks. I haven’t looked in the back of the 16 in a while though. I wonder what I could hook up?? Worth noting that your BF Apollo 16 has better DA than the Apollo 8’s that JohnKenn and Kcat and I were all using. Yes, that's a worthy point. I had the 16 MKII side by side with a Symphony MKII.
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 10, 2018 17:55:02 GMT -6
You guys are making me want a Symphony. I have to say, I’m very happy with my Apollo 16 though. It was a major upgrade from my old silver 8. The DA made me sell my Dangerous Source as well. I wouldn’t mind a nice stereo AD for critical tracks. I haven’t looked in the back of the 16 in a while though. I wonder what I could hook up?? You could hook up a highly modded pair of Ross Martin AD/DA converters. I know a guy who has a set for sale in the classifieds... ...they are outstanding, by the way. Better than 16 MKII conversion.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2018 19:06:17 GMT -6
For what its worth Gannon maintained that when the blind tested people listing to bf8 and 16 mkii's , people didn't hear the difference of the DA. I have heard comparisons and I thought I preferred the 16 over the 8 bf, who knows I think preference is a big part of this and I preferred the symphony mkii sound but agree that the software gui s not as well implemented as apollo and as was said above why not, its not like Apogee doesn't have good people ?
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 19:17:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by nick8801 on Jun 10, 2018 19:17:03 GMT -6
You guys are making me want a Symphony. I have to say, I’m very happy with my Apollo 16 though. It was a major upgrade from my old silver 8. The DA made me sell my Dangerous Source as well. I wouldn’t mind a nice stereo AD for critical tracks. I haven’t looked in the back of the 16 in a while though. I wonder what I could hook up?? You could hook up a highly modded pair of Ross Martin AD/DA converters. I know a guy who has a set for sale in the classifieds... ...they are outstanding, by the way. Better than 16 MKII conversion. I’ve heard great things about those!
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Post by indiehouse on Jun 10, 2018 19:19:25 GMT -6
You could hook up a highly modded pair of Ross Martin AD/DA converters. I know a guy who has a set for sale in the classifieds... ...they are outstanding, by the way. Better than 16 MKII conversion. I’ve heard great things about those! Yeah, Dan Deurloo worked some magic voodoo on these guys. Took them to a whole other level, custom power supply, etc. Smokin'.
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UA Apollo
Jun 10, 2018 19:52:08 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2018 19:52:08 GMT -6
If anyone is seriously looking for a symph mkii there is a very good deal on a used 8x8 with the 8 apogee pres as well on GS asking about $3700.
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Post by popmann on Jun 10, 2018 20:38:52 GMT -6
I’m going to point out the irony that use of UA plug ins anywhere in your playback (daw) mixer is the primary reason you have to “deal with latency” at all. You DO understand that? That the time it takes to send out the thunderbolt or firewire buss, process and return HAS to be compensated for by the DAW—thus pushing playback further from “now”, ie:latent playback. Only an issue if you are not direct monitoring. Otherwise you can run your buffer at max setting with tons of plugs (on non record enabled tracks) and still get basically zero latency with a UA interface. That is what I'm saying....because it's what THEY were saying about the software reverbs being latent. They're MAKING the problem (native mixer latency) exponentially worse using external DSP chips' buffer, which makes things like having to have the reverb on the interface seem "necessary". I monitor vocals with reverb here all the time. Native software reverb....hardware mixer--either analog or the direct monitoring of the interface (though for vocals specifically it's gonna be the analog). It adds a few clicks to the change over from record to playback--sort of depending on the app's capabilities of routing prefader sends to the reverb bus. I suppose if you still "punch in" like it's 1985 you might find it's a little more cumbersome. I haven't "punched in" since I moved to digital some 19 years ago.
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Post by popmann on Jun 10, 2018 20:42:11 GMT -6
I’m going to point out the irony that use of UA plug ins anywhere in your playback (daw) mixer is the primary reason you have to “deal with latency” at all. You DO understand that? That the time it takes to send out the thunderbolt or firewire buss, process and return HAS to be compensated for by the DAW—thus pushing playback further from “now”, ie:latent playback. You’re not understanding this. I am very well aware of what causes latency. You DO understand this, right? All I’m saying is I like the workflow of console better. See above. My post was in reaction to software reverb having to "deal with the latency". Using a UA plug in inside Cubase or ProTools or Logic's mixer will increase that mixer's latency by many, many milliseconds. I wasn't reacting to your liking Console better than Maestro.
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