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Post by maldenfilms on Aug 13, 2022 12:11:26 GMT -6
I used my Sonarworks mic, with the cal file loaded, and took measurements for Dirac at both 90 and 45 degrees. I even kept them both saved so I could a/b them...both sounded awful. Phasey, comb filtered weirdness. Measurements were all within 2-3 feet of my main listening position. Maybe Dirac just isn't for me. Sonarworks works pretty great on my little home setup; enough so that I can reliably mix here despite minimal treatment. Was hoping the phase/timing adjustments of Dirac would be a 'level up' (particularly because my imaging kinda stinks in here). C'est la vie. There must be something weird going on then... I can confirm that in my setup I'm definitely not hearing any sort of phase weirdness. In fact, it made everything really tighten up and the imaging got much clearer. Like Justin, I've recently adjusted the curtains and am now only processing below I think around 3kHz on my Amphions and it seems to be a bit more natural in the highs. The last thing I'd suggest is trying the mic at 0 degrees (directly towards the speakers) and seeing if that does anything. And maybe even tightening up the distance from the listening position a little bit. Oh, and for what it's worth I had to redo the measurements a few times because the order of the measurement spots it leads you through can sometimes be counterintuitive. You can click the dots on screen to set which spot you want to take next, and I was sometimes in the wrong position and had to re-do some. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 13, 2022 12:40:00 GMT -6
I used my Sonarworks mic, with the cal file loaded, and took measurements for Dirac at both 90 and 45 degrees. I even kept them both saved so I could a/b them...both sounded awful. Phasey, comb filtered weirdness. Measurements were all within 2-3 feet of my main listening position. Maybe Dirac just isn't for me. Sonarworks works pretty great on my little home setup; enough so that I can reliably mix here despite minimal treatment. Was hoping the phase/timing adjustments of Dirac would be a 'level up' (particularly because my imaging kinda stinks in here). C'est la vie. I also liked SW better |
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ji43
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Post by ji43 on Aug 13, 2022 12:46:42 GMT -6
Anyone here with Trinnov compare the Trinnov DAC to their monitor controller DAC? For example running Trinnov AES Out into a Crane Song Avocet IIA, using the Crane Song DAC vs the built in DAC in the Trinnov straight to speakers?
Also anyone here using "La Remote" w/ Trinnov?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 13, 2022 14:57:13 GMT -6
Anyone here with Trinnov compare the Trinnov DAC to their monitor controller DAC? For example running Trinnov AES Out into a Crane Song Avocet IIA, using the Crane Song DAC vs the built in DAC in the Trinnov straight to speakers? Also anyone here using "La Remote" w/ Trinnov? I did in the beginning, but immediately went to using the Burl via AES. I don't think they're bad, but not as good as dedicated higher quality DA's. The LA Remote looks great, just expensive. I just bought a TC Level Pilot and called it a day. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Aug 19, 2022 7:23:34 GMT -6
Following. Great thread. I’m sooo tempted to sell a few things and grab this. Maybe I missed it, but I couldn’t tell if you ever got around to using the 4 capsule measurement mic for the capture? Thanks for sharing!
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Post by svart on Aug 19, 2022 7:36:05 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes..
I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2022 8:26:01 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes.. I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring. You're skeptical? Color me shocked. |
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Post by svart on Aug 19, 2022 8:34:36 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes.. I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring. You're skeptical? Color me shocked.  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2022 8:37:33 GMT -6
I feel like it has helped me tremendously - YMMV. I don't have one that is before and after, but I could probably find a song I did before and a different one I did after.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Aug 19, 2022 9:14:38 GMT -6
I'm not using Trinnov, but in the short time since starting with Dirac I can say - it's not that my work output sounds significantly different than before, it's that I get it done more quickly/easily and with greater confidence. So I question the usefulness of hearing before/after mixes. It's more of a quality of life thing, for me at least.
If the change from using it is drastic enough to cause problems with knowing your monitors then that might be viewed as evidence of how badly you needed it in the first place.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 19, 2022 9:35:03 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes.. I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring. The results are so speaker and room dependent, its not even about how well the room is treated. Its all about how your monitoring environment works with their algorithms. In other words try before you buy. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2022 9:42:18 GMT -6
I'm not using Trinnov, but in the short time since starting with Dirac I can say - it's not that my work output sounds significantly different than before, it's that I get it done more quickly/easily and with greater confidence. So I question the usefulness of hearing before/after mixes. It's more of a quality of life thing, for me at least. If the change from using it is drastic enough to cause problems with knowing your monitors then that might be viewed as evidence of how badly you needed it in the first place. This is a great point. I certainly have more confidence that what I'm hearing is correct. But I'd say there has been improvement for sure for me. The low end is considerably more dialed in for me...top too. Actually, I feel like for some reason, it's really helped my mixes sound less scooped in comparison to major label stuff. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 19, 2022 9:44:31 GMT -6
I'm actually just finishing up a complete room overhaul today...floors going in as we speak. Had musiccityacoustics.com do a complete room acoustics install. It looks absolutely great...can't wait to move all my shit back in and finally hear it today. Also can't wait to see what it sounds like without and with the Trinnov.
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Post by Quint on Aug 19, 2022 9:54:44 GMT -6
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 19, 2022 20:07:28 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes.. I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring. As a 'pro dude' who works around different rooms, I gotta say: there is a certain level of monitoring that doesn't really require you 'get used to' it. It just sounds great, and you can make confident decisions that will be largely translate-able. Folks like me who freelance in a few different spots expect a room's acoustics to just work. Sounds to me like Trinnov might be a way to get there more reliably and a LOT faster. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 19, 2022 20:29:39 GMT -6
Still waiting to hear before and after mixes.. I mean this is cool and all, but my room isn't treated all that great compared to others. I can't imagine continuously changing stuff to fix the room response and expecting to get even the slightest bit used to the sound of the monitoring. As a 'pro dude' who works around different rooms, I gotta say: there is a certain level of monitoring that doesn't really require you 'get used to' it. It just sounds great, and you can make confident decisions that will be largely translate-able. Folks like me who freelance in a few different spots expect a room's acoustics to just work. Sounds to me like Trinnov might be a way to get there more reliably and a LOT faster. I am always amazed at how many people don’t realize how much EQ and other alignment there is on some of the mains out there. I once took a dive into the XTA on a pair of big Questeds, but they sounded great. |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 3, 2022 10:40:20 GMT -6
Yesterday I finally got the miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live up and running. It took a lot more time than I anticipated to get through the software and hardware installation, with various frustrating setbacks. About 10 hours total. Some of it was my own fault.
The first thing I did was to run the SHD with no DSP just to test the onboard AD/DA. It is very transparent. There's no way to do a quick A/B test of something like that, but as far as I could tell it's invisible.
After taking the measurements and tweaking the curve I got the same result as I did when using the Dirac plugin in the DAW; Improved stereo image and an impressive flattening of frequency response.
For 22 years I've been contending with some LF peaks and dips in my room due to the fact that the fire department won't let me treat my ceiling because of the sprinkler system. I'm very familiar with the issues and have various workarounds, but it's been a thorn in my side for so long that I can hardly believe it now that it's basically 99% fixed! A sine wave sweep sounds ruler flat to the ear now. Dirac is a dream. And with the SHD running analog I/O I now have every source that goes to the 802s getting the Dirac treatment.
This is a Trinnov thread, and I haven't tried Trinnov, but I bet it works as well as Dirac does and I definitely recommend trying either one. The SHD/Dirac route is a fraction of the price, and was a PITA to set up in my case. but worth it in the long run.
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Post by drbill on Sept 3, 2022 16:17:42 GMT -6
Awesome Justin! Thanks for the report! bp
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Post by craigmorris74 on Sept 3, 2022 18:34:51 GMT -6
Yesterday I finally got the miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live up and running. It took a lot more time than I anticipated to get through the software and hardware installation, with various frustrating setbacks. About 10 hours total. Some of it was my own fault. The first thing I did was to run the SHD with no DSP just to test the onboard AD/DA. It is very transparent. There's no way to do a quick A/B test of something like that, but as far as I could tell it's invisible. After taking the measurements and tweaking the curve I got the same result as I did when using the Dirac plugin in the DAW; Improved stereo image and an impressive flattening of frequency response. For 22 years I've been contending with some LF peaks and dips in my room due to the fact that the fire department won't let me treat my ceiling because of the sprinkler system. I'm very familiar with the issues and have various workarounds, but it's been a thorn in my side for so long that I can hardly believe it now that it's basically 99% fixed! A sine wave sweep sounds ruler flat to the ear now. Dirac is a dream. And with the SHD running analog I/O I now have every source that goes to the 802s getting the Dirac treatment. This is a Trinnov thread, and I haven't tried Trinnov, but I bet it works as well as Dirac does and I definitely recommend trying either one. The SHD/Dirac route is a fraction of the price, and was a PITA to set up in my case. but worth it in the long run. What is the benefit of using the miniDSP SHD and Dirac vs running Dirac natively? |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 3, 2022 18:46:17 GMT -6
Yesterday I finally got the miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live up and running. It took a lot more time than I anticipated to get through the software and hardware installation, with various frustrating setbacks. About 10 hours total. Some of it was my own fault. The first thing I did was to run the SHD with no DSP just to test the onboard AD/DA. It is very transparent. There's no way to do a quick A/B test of something like that, but as far as I could tell it's invisible. After taking the measurements and tweaking the curve I got the same result as I did when using the Dirac plugin in the DAW; Improved stereo image and an impressive flattening of frequency response. For 22 years I've been contending with some LF peaks and dips in my room due to the fact that the fire department won't let me treat my ceiling because of the sprinkler system. I'm very familiar with the issues and have various workarounds, but it's been a thorn in my side for so long that I can hardly believe it now that it's basically 99% fixed! A sine wave sweep sounds ruler flat to the ear now. Dirac is a dream. And with the SHD running analog I/O I now have every source that goes to the 802s getting the Dirac treatment. This is a Trinnov thread, and I haven't tried Trinnov, but I bet it works as well as Dirac does and I definitely recommend trying either one. The SHD/Dirac route is a fraction of the price, and was a PITA to set up in my case. but worth it in the long run. What is the benefit of using the miniDSP SHD and Dirac vs running Dirac natively? Routing possibilities, and less demands on the CPU. |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 3, 2022 19:24:28 GMT -6
Yesterday I finally got the miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live up and running. It took a lot more time than I anticipated to get through the software and hardware installation, with various frustrating setbacks. About 10 hours total. Some of it was my own fault. The first thing I did was to run the SHD with no DSP just to test the onboard AD/DA. It is very transparent. There's no way to do a quick A/B test of something like that, but as far as I could tell it's invisible. After taking the measurements and tweaking the curve I got the same result as I did when using the Dirac plugin in the DAW; Improved stereo image and an impressive flattening of frequency response. For 22 years I've been contending with some LF peaks and dips in my room due to the fact that the fire department won't let me treat my ceiling because of the sprinkler system. I'm very familiar with the issues and have various workarounds, but it's been a thorn in my side for so long that I can hardly believe it now that it's basically 99% fixed! A sine wave sweep sounds ruler flat to the ear now. Dirac is a dream. And with the SHD running analog I/O I now have every source that goes to the 802s getting the Dirac treatment. This is a Trinnov thread, and I haven't tried Trinnov, but I bet it works as well as Dirac does and I definitely recommend trying either one. The SHD/Dirac route is a fraction of the price, and was a PITA to set up in my case. but worth it in the long run. What is the benefit of using the miniDSP SHD and Dirac vs running Dirac natively? Running it ITB it only affects audio coming from the computer. A HW unit with analog I/O can be inserted before the power amp and affect everything going to the speakers. My console, CD player, turntable, etc. all benefit. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 4, 2022 10:38:57 GMT -6
So does the Dirac deal with the correction dynamically? Check out the clip below starting at about 11 minutes. I will say that even $100 Sonarworks gets you better results than without. The room eq correction does a lot of the job.
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 5, 2022 10:51:31 GMT -6
So does the Dirac deal with the correction dynamically? Check out the clip below starting at about 11 minutes. I will say that even $100 Sonarworks gets you better results than without. The room eq correction does a lot of the job. I don't recall Dirac's website saying it processes in real time, which is what he's saying Trinnov does. I think Dirac creates a model of frequency response and timing adjustments and applies it statically, and that's all I imagined any of these systems would do. If Trinnov actually adjusts itself in real time, and obviously it'd be doing that without the calibrated mic in the room, then it'd have to be responding to just the program material and/or the volume hitting it. Pretty cool. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 5, 2022 13:18:04 GMT -6
If Trinnov actually adjusts itself in real time, and obviously it'd be doing that without the calibrated mic in the room, then it'd have to be responding to just the program material and/or the volume hitting it. Pretty cool.Honestly, that seems like a nightmare to me. I don't want my speakers adjusting to program material in real time. At least I don't think I do.... My room / speakers are a fixed "monitoring system" that I want to react the exact same way every time. Good or bad. I want a fixed target. Unless someone can convince me that that's a dinosaur approach.... |
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Post by trakworxmastering on Sept 5, 2022 14:07:14 GMT -6
If Trinnov actually adjusts itself in real time, and obviously it'd be doing that without the calibrated mic in the room, then it'd have to be responding to just the program material and/or the volume hitting it. Pretty cool.Honestly, that seems like a nightmare to me. I don't want my speakers adjusting to program material in real time. At least I don't think I do.... My room / speakers are a fixed "monitoring system" that I want to react the exact same way every time. Good or bad. I want a fixed target. Unless someone can convince me that that's a dinosaur approach.... Yeah, it would have to consistently react the same way every time, otherwise no bueno. There could be some utility in, for example, compensating for Fletcher Munson effects at different volume settings. Or perhaps handling bass heavy music a little differently. IDK, just speculating. It all depends on how well it's done. Trinnov users seem to be pretty happy with whatever it does... |
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