|
Post by bartacusad on Mar 5, 2019 17:28:23 GMT -6
Ok, now we are on the same page! With the SB1, one can use the outputs of their DAW similar to Line Trim on a console. You would start the mixing process by wanting to see everything coming out of your DAW at -18 dbFS, which the mixer's input channel would read as 0 dbVU. This puts you in John's suggested sweet-spot (~0 dbVU) on the input of every channel of the mixer. Then, mix with the knobs like faders. To my understanding, this is exactly how one would set up a console (the only exception is using Line Trim knobs instead of DAW faders to optimize levels going into the desk). In fact, this IS a 2 RU console because the multiple op-amps make up for what a typical summing mixer comparatively lacks in circuitry. Using the SB2, I'd probably only be able to get the loudest 2 or 3 channels near that sweet spot (kick, snare, and 808) because the mix balance itself would handcuff my ability to optimize the quieter channel's level into the mixer. Even though these boxes utilize the same circuitry, the gain staging technique is completely different. My question: Do the people using SB2 with console experience feel that the SB2 is missing something by not having the ability to optimize the input levels of each channel? almost there. The SB1 starts a 0dB just like the SB2. You just gain the ability to turn down your signal on the SB1. NOT turn it up. This would limit how a desk would work in terms of mixing as you usually have +10-16dB in the fader alone on various desks. Either way, you still have to have a good mix coming out of your computer and hitting the SB..not matter what it is. You won't be able to have everything hitting as hard across the board...then it wouldn't be a mix, everything would just be loud. These boxes aren't a mixer. In fact they are FAR from a full console in terms of how you'd mix OTB with a large format desk. However, it is the best summing box in terms of active circuity as you stated, and in that regard is the best "back end" of a console you can probably get today. But you wouldn't setup your outputs of your computer and then mix on the SB1. I mean you could to a very limited point. if you want to turn things down with the rotary knobs live, you totally could However, don't think you could do a full 16ch mix all analog on this this with rotary knobs. Theres a reason why Tom Dowd said "screw this, I want to us all my fingers" and invented faders. You'll still want to do just about all your mixing(think automation) ITB and then you are flavoring it with the SB. This also helps with recall for later. Which in some ways is an advantage to the SB2 as you just have to push a few buttons likely to recall a mix instead of trying to reset your rotary knobs just right. Jeff partnered with a company that created a box called Dawtomation that would be the answer to hitting the SumBus with the best fader resolution. It's a plugin that controls a VCA box and it controls the output volume of each channel. So you set up your DAW session as if you were going into a console, all faders at zero and then your automation is done through the plugin's faders. THIS is as close to getting a console sound as you can get with the SumBus. Well that and making up the gain coming out of the box with a pair of VP28s or Heiders.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Mar 5, 2019 17:15:08 GMT -6
You can just hit the sb2 harder from the daw... This is true, but I had the idea of trying to clip my drum bus aggressively on parallel channels (in place of reaching for Decapitator or Devil-loc). I've found distortion to be a good tool for gluing a hip-hop kit, but it might not be as necessary when moving OTB to a colored mixer. Again, this is a new world for me to hit multiple op-amp stages like this and tbh I'm worried about the adjustment period Also, sorry for mixing up the Sumbus types guys! Probably very confusing to you! I assumed SB1 was the first released, but it might be about the mono cards? I've amended the original post in case anybody follows this thread top-down. There is a scenario by which you could have a parallel bus with a 16x4. Jeff gave me a simple little diagram of a cable that sums the 4 outputs down to 2. Basically a summing cable for your summing box. Ha! You do lose about 6db coming out of the cable but I've found no loss of frequency response in all my testing. So basically, you could have all your music coming out of the A bus (ie 1-14) and then your parallel drums coming out of the B bus (ie15&16) through a compressor of your choice and then blend to taste with the output of the compressor. That way you could hit inputs 15 & 16 as hard as your want and then coming out of the B bus to your compressor, then to your cable. I'm probably making this sound way harder than it actually would be but hopefully you get the point. I have different sets of transformers and op amps on my A bus and B bus and it is really nice to be able to quickly compare which sound I like on which instrument but the scenario I just laid out would be way cool! May have to try it out!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jan 24, 2019 16:59:40 GMT -6
Very interested in this! Did you see which mics they modeled?
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Nov 26, 2018 22:51:20 GMT -6
Guess I'm not the only shill on here lol Hahaha! Hey we put our money where our mouth is! I’m just trying to help my RGO buddies discover the awesomeness that is the SumBus. It’s built like no other and it sounds like it as well.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Nov 26, 2018 21:55:55 GMT -6
Vincent, have you looked into a used Dangerous Music 2-buss+? Just my two cents here. I had the 2bus+ and then I ran a mix that I had been working on through the CAPI SumBus and it made the Dangerous sound like I was mixing in the box comparatively. *Not a paid advertisement
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Nov 26, 2018 21:49:48 GMT -6
I love it! It saved me from buying another eq I’ve had my eye on for a while. It’s really smooth sounding.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Nov 22, 2018 22:57:44 GMT -6
The channel strip is dialed in and sounding great. Take a listen to this clip. Dang Dan this thing sounds awesome! Ol Shawn ain't sounding too shabby either : ) What's the timeline on this?
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Nov 3, 2018 9:50:04 GMT -6
Funny you should mention it, his post is what got me to start looking at Vintech. It’s crossed my mind Can anyway compare the Vintechs to the aml ez1073’s I have? Wondering on the difference. I prefer the AML 1073 to the Vintech. It’s just beefier to me.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Oct 11, 2018 9:24:40 GMT -6
I use the THAT SOUND samples everyday in one form or another with Trigger. I especially like the NirZ samples. www.iwantthatsound.com/nir-jeffAlso Bobby Holland has some really killer samples. His Pentavarit Snare sits in a mix really well.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Sept 26, 2018 21:17:56 GMT -6
I've had SD2 for a long time and finally decided to take the plunge on SD3 a few weeks back. I havne't had a chance to get into it too deeply yet but my initial impressions are it's quite an improvement over SD2 ...and I really love SD2. The easy access to individual pieces of other kits makes my brain smile. I need to sit and watch some of the tutorial videos but even with just my feet in the shallow end of the pool thus far, I'm really glad I jumped in. I really think it’s killer. It’s pretty overwhelming how many options there are for editing and tweaking sounds and kits. Just limitless.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Sept 10, 2018 6:34:24 GMT -6
Awesome! Glad it worked for ya! Here's a new one to try if you haven't yet per Jeffs suggestion: Instead of turning up the mic pre for your make up gain, try turning up the Channel Fader gain. It's a slightly different sound and well worth experimenting with. Also, I have been experimenting with hitting the SumBus just a tad harder (maybe 1.5dB) and then hitting the VP28s a tad harder and backing down the input to my Burl B2 A/D by 2dB so that everything is hitting those transformers a couple dB hotter and man I gotta say, I'm really digging it. Sometimes it's a bit over the top but sometimes it really glues things together incredibly well. I just ran an ITB mix into the Sumbus chain with that setting and it absolutely destroyed the ITB mix. It just sounds freaking ANALOG!! Imagine that! Haha! The main difference was how wide the vocal became and how clear the drums and bass were. Gotta love it! Maybe I misunderstood you the first time, but that’s what I’ve been doing - output faders dimed and then bringing the input up to a decent level. Actually that's the setting I use when I put my VP28 on a vocal as an insert. For mixing I've been running it an unity and then bumping up the mic pre side 6dB for the make up gain. But now I like the way it sounds with the channel fader boost instead. Doesn't seem to make quite as big of a difference with the Platinum as it does with the black VP28 however. According to Jeff, the way you're running it is the way API actually designed the console to run, meaning, with the channel fader all the way up you're not attenuating the signal. So, all that to say you're running it as it was intended to be run : )
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Sept 7, 2018 19:06:03 GMT -6
I use mine almost everyday and it is killer! The best thing to do would be contact Jeff and get one of his demo units. No matter the mixer the sonic API signature will be there but we all create our own sound with it. You’ll love it! I do have plenty of mixes I could let you hear but I’m not sure you’d be able to understand what the SumBus is doing for the mix. Yeah - I’m using 8 channels of it for more important mixes. You can hear a more relaxed, wider, deeper sound. Btw - Bart, thanks for the input on not hitting it very hard. Really opened it up. And cranking the output on the pres and then pulling adding input as needed. I’m actually going to start tracking some vocals that way too. Awesome! Glad it worked for ya! Here's a new one to try if you haven't yet per Jeffs suggestion: Instead of turning up the mic pre for your make up gain, try turning up the Channel Fader gain. It's a slightly different sound and well worth experimenting with. Also, I have been experimenting with hitting the SumBus just a tad harder (maybe 1.5dB) and then hitting the VP28s a tad harder and backing down the input to my Burl B2 A/D by 2dB so that everything is hitting those transformers a couple dB hotter and man I gotta say, I'm really digging it. Sometimes it's a bit over the top but sometimes it really glues things together incredibly well. I just ran an ITB mix into the Sumbus chain with that setting and it absolutely destroyed the ITB mix. It just sounds freaking ANALOG!! Imagine that! Haha! The main difference was how wide the vocal became and how clear the drums and bass were. Gotta love it!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Sept 5, 2018 10:56:36 GMT -6
How are everyone's ACAs going? Any updates on builds or mixes you can share? Would love to hear some more. I use mine almost everyday and it is killer! The best thing to do would be contact Jeff and get one of his demo units. No matter the mixer the sonic API signature will be there but we all create our own sound with it. You’ll love it! I do have plenty of mixes I could let you hear but I’m not sure you’d be able to understand what the SumBus is doing for the mix.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 30, 2018 22:45:33 GMT -6
Ladies and Gentlemans -
I had a VP 312 for a while and had to choose to keep just one between that and the VP28, so I kept the 28. Great stuff. Now I need more CAPI for drums etc.
I do find myself missing some of the lower extension and highs on the 312, though it was a bit too clear sometimes. For those that have used these, would a vp25 basically give me the vp28 mid forwardness but some of that more open top and lows of the 312? That might be just the monster I have been wishing for. Sometimes the vp28 takes a bit much of my transients/highs.
I had considered Litz versions as I have been running non-Litz here, but the A/B's I heard of a vp 26 non-Litz vs Litz definitely had me happy with mine. The Litz was more tamed and smooth/big but I like the raw rockin' sounds I hear without Litz.
BTW I've been running GAR 2520s and love them. I heard A/B's between them and the other GARs and SL dots against a vintage Huntington and the GAR2520s were most definitely the closest to my ears.
I'm sure I would love a bunch of Heider's, but I have to look at the cost savings and enjoyment of the kits. So the FD312s are basically off the table for me at thea li moment.
Just curious.
Thanks
-A
My go to kick drum and tom mic pre’s are the VP25’s with Filotte VF600 op amps. HUGE bottom end and clear highs. The Firlottes are a little scooped in the mids which winds up being perfect for kick and toms. Also, its hard to beat a Litz 2503 xformer for big ol punchy bottom end. AND they’re cheap and you could easily build 3 or 4 of them in a weekend.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 26, 2018 10:12:05 GMT -6
Short answer: DON’T Partnerships are the worst business structure period. Its not going to end well.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 4, 2018 20:59:21 GMT -6
I had done a good rough mix ITB so the general vibe was there but it was actually mixed through the SB. I copied all my plugin settings back to the ITB for this little demo. All the reverbs sound deeper and wider on the SB track. Sounds good. Did the SB mix hit any outboard compressor(s) or any other signal pricessing gear before going back itb to print? Yes I totally agree about the verbs. That’s one of the many aspects of mixing through the SumBus that I can’t live without now. I come out of the SB to a pair of VP28s and then to a Wes Audio Dione compressor and then through the Burl B2 AD. I love that I’m able to recall all my settings with the Dione instantly and it sounds killer too!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 4, 2018 5:48:15 GMT -6
You could easily make up the gain with a compressor. Jeffs design as I understand it is very much the same as what happens in an API console so the VP28 pairs perfectly with the SumBus to complete the picture sonically speaking. Also, I have noticed, as has John Kennedy, that the box has a sweet spot for how hard you can hit it. If you hit it too hard you start to lose some low end. For me, coming out of the box at +3 to +9 over 0vu is the sweet spot.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 4, 2018 5:23:06 GMT -6
Original VP28s with the Ed Anderson xformer.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jul 3, 2018 14:58:56 GMT -6
Attached is a section of a song I mixed a couple days ago that hopefully will give a little insight into what the SumBus does to drums, bass, elec, and just the general sonic spectrum. This was done through the 16x2. Drums are summed to two channels, elec on two channels, bass on a mono channel, and verb on two channels. I wish I could let you hear what it does for vocals but this is an unreleased project and I have no rights to it other than to share a little taste of it. I think the SumBus improves the whole mix but listen to the differences to the kick and bass especially! Thanks for sharing this! Sounds great man. Any more examples would be most appreciated. Can you tell us what convertors were feeding the SumBus and what the A-D was? Cheers. Thanks man! I’m using an Avid HD Omni and an Avid HD I/O for D/A, then through the SumBus to a pair of VP28s with gar918 op amps and then to the Burl B2 A/D. I’ll try to put together a few more examples here soon!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jun 27, 2018 20:04:26 GMT -6
Attached is a section of a song I mixed a couple days ago that hopefully will give a little insight into what the SumBus does to drums, bass, elec, and just the general sonic spectrum. This was done through the 16x2. Drums are summed to two channels, elec on two channels, bass on a mono channel, and verb on two channels. I wish I could let you hear what it does for vocals but this is an unreleased project and I have no rights to it other than to share a little taste of it. I think the SumBus improves the whole mix but listen to the differences to the kick and bass especially! The SumBus track seems to add a lot of punch and depth to that kick. Did you mix into the SB and then do the A/B or mix ITB and then apply SB at the end? I had done a good rough mix ITB so the general vibe was there but it was actually mixed through the SB. I copied all my plugin settings back to the ITB for this little demo.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jun 27, 2018 19:27:51 GMT -6
Attached is a section of a song I mixed a couple days ago that hopefully will give a little insight into what the SumBus does to drums, bass, elec, and just the general sonic spectrum. This was done through the 16x2. Drums are summed to two channels, elec on two channels, bass on a mono channel, and verb on two channels. I wish I could let you hear what it does for vocals but this is an unreleased project and I have no rights to it other than to share a little taste of it. I think the SumBus improves the whole mix but listen to the differences to the kick and bass especially!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on Jun 18, 2018 14:02:25 GMT -6
Dang - I really liked the M/S compression on this thing. Wish I had never downloaded the demo. I really liked this plugin! My demo has now expired. lol What other plugs do the M/S widening thing? Fabfilter I think - but in the 30 seconds I had to explore using that I got lost on how to set it up (need two instances of it iiic). The Bax EQ is my favorite for M/S widening
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on May 6, 2018 22:10:13 GMT -6
I really like my 2Bus+ also until I heard the SumBus. I fortunately have had the opportunity to work with Jeff's beta model and it just spanks everything that I've ever used (2bus+, Inward Connections Mix690, Burl Vancouver,etc) I really can't wait for everyone to get the chance to start mixing through this thing. It just sounds like a record! I sold my 2bus+ a few weeks ago to make way for the production model which I anticipate being even better than the one I've been able to work with (if that's even possible). The difference between the SumBus and the 2bus+ is primarily in the bottom end and also how vocals just sit better. Don’t believe the 2Bus+ has input transformers on every channel, right? No sir it does not. The “mojo” stuff happens with their Color circuits. Obviously a completely different box conceptually. I’d rather have the transformers and op amps doing their thing on a track by track or at least group basis instead of just on the whole mix. You can easily get that by strapping a VP28 across 2-mix. But as you well know, its a whole other ball game with transformers and op amps happening on every channel!
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on May 6, 2018 10:03:48 GMT -6
I really like my Dangerous 2Bus+ and have had great results with it, but I can already see myself selling it for one of these. Good thing I am on the "early retirement plan" so I will have plenty of time to build it with loving care. I really like my 2Bus+ also until I heard the SumBus. I fortunately have had the opportunity to work with Jeff's beta model and it just spanks everything that I've ever used (2bus+, Inward Connections Mix690, Burl Vancouver,etc) I really can't wait for everyone to get the chance to start mixing through this thing. It just sounds like a record! I sold my 2bus+ a few weeks ago to make way for the production model which I anticipate being even better than the one I've been able to work with (if that's even possible). The difference between the SumBus and the 2bus+ is primarily in the bottom end and also how vocals just sit better.
|
|
|
Post by bartacusad on May 6, 2018 8:07:13 GMT -6
So, who’s getting one of these? If so, which one are you going for? I’m going all in! 32x4
|
|