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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 23, 2013 9:57:04 GMT -6
Hey John, Yeah the Aurora Audio thing was a real let down. The unit sounded fabulous, but wasn't reliable. I spent $7000 on it and waited months longer then the date I was promised for it's delivery. Canceled gigs because of this...(maybe a omen of what was to come?)
Like I said Geoff was good about trying to get it going, but it seemed like he was overwhelmed at the time. When the unit was sent back to him the first time it was because the left side would be intermittent and go out randomly, also the headphone amp would go on and off, a few little things like that? It was supposed to be back within 10 days, but instead it took six weeks, but nothing really changed, as it exhibited the same problems a few weeks later. Then it went back again cause Geoff said he figured out what it was....but it just wasted even more time and more of my money. Really too bad, cause I LOVED the GTM, and designed and built my entire system around it. I was kinda hoping I might get one of the new versions for cost or something, when they came out, but hey...live and learn. When the Neve 8816 came out, it filled the void, maybe not as great sonically, but does even more, has 16 channels, and works all the time!
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 23, 2013 9:27:30 GMT -6
Haha.. Once again my Scummy little friend, you are correct!
I tried it, and soon realized that (what I already knew) I hated everything about recording to a computer.... The setup, the interface, the latency, etc, etc, etc. This went on for about a year or so, trying each time to get past the computer thing, but it just wore me down. What can I say, even with all a computer setup offers, I just couldn't get on with it. Not for me, that's all. Plus there was the fact that everyone KNEW, they could just add more tracks if needed.
Once again I didn't like that option for my purpose of keeping it real. At that point I thought I was out of options, so I started luggin the Radar V around again.
UNTIL..............
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 22, 2013 17:56:31 GMT -6
The next phase was one I fought in my head for weeks.... I didn't really want to go the computer route, no let me rephrase it... I DIDN'T WANT TO USE A COMPUTER EVER! (other then for email) But I saw no other choice, a computer was cheap, easy, made no noise to speak of, and if I purchased a 8 channel convertor, then I pretty much have my 8 tracks set up right? So after many weeks I finally settled on a Mac Book Pro 17 inch laptop with a Metric Halo UNL-8 for the 8 ins /outs ...And DP-7 (at the time) Ok, this seemed like it might work... How bad could it be? I put all this it into my setup, and did a few sessions with this configuration. The pics show, the computer, the UNL-8, a storage drawer, a Glyph 2 terabyte drive, and the second 19 inch screen which folds into the rack when not in use. And these are all installed in the new custom built rack. (after I decided the SKB's were too much) Attachments:
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 22, 2013 17:31:48 GMT -6
I figured out real soon that the SKB racks were also a bit much more then required (good thing I bought 2, ehh?). So I set out to make the system much more portable, reliable, & with a vintage sonic flavor. At this time I already owned 5 Radar digital recorders, and I was totally pleased with everything about them as my main studio machines. I purchased the 5th unit to use in this version of my remote rig.... But I found out quickly that it was still rather large to move, albeit much smaller and lighter then a analog machine, but it still was a lot to carry, and it made a hell of a lot of noise. You see most of the recording I do on location (and now in my new room) is with me setup in the same room as the band...So the 2 drives, the internal drives, the fan, all made way too much noise for the machine to be next to me where the recording is happening. Now I did relocate it to an other room on a few occasions, but sometimes, there is NO OTHER ROOM... So I needed a recorder that can stay next to me where the music is happening and make no noise. So I called Barry on the phone over at IZ and told him what I needed to see if he could custom build this for me..... My specific points were: - A slightly smaller, and lighter machine. - One that could use solid state drives, in and out, (thus reducing drive noise!) - Possibility of putting simple record / play functions on the front panel as to not have top carry the big RE-8 remote control to all the gigs. - And if I didn't need to carry a screen (there ain't one on a analog recorder!) that would be great. - I also asked if the machine could be had in 8 channel increments? (the Radar II and Radar V cards were sold only in blocks of 24) Barry was puzzled over this last request, and he asked, why would you want only 8 channels in and out...I told him about my 8 track rig and label, and that it was all based around being limited to only 8 tracks, and he replied, then only tell them there's only 8.. Haha, I told him it won't work, it either is or it ain't, and we have to bounce like the old days! Remember, Limitations. - And my last request was to make the fan QUIETER! Well at this point he told me that he could not build what I wanted at the time, but might be able to change the 2 drives out to solid state, and make the fan a bit quieter... But I needed more... So the quest for something to record to, that fit these requirements for my portable rig continued......
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 22, 2013 16:05:03 GMT -6
You got it buddy, it became a job, and one I wanted nothing to do with.
So I went on this quest on how to get back to the music I loved, and get back to working with live musicians, performing together in a room. Any room...
Ok, so where did I leave off last night. The version in the SKB rack... You can see the Helios thing entering my setup here.
I loved the GTM-822 mixer, it sounded amazing. But sadly it never worked right, well at least not for more then a few weeks at a time? Geoff did his best to get me up and running, but still I had problems shortly after each one of his repairs. Obviously while out on location, I needed something that not only sounds great, but it has to be reliable. With No excuses! This proved to be anything but. And Shipping the unit back and forth to California a few times cost a fortune with insurance, it just got to be a bit much. The icing on the cake was that I lost 3 sessions I had previously booked that had deadlines...and because the mixer was out for repair, this time for 6 weeks I lost all that work! That was the final straw...sold it with full disclosure for a $3000 loss, In just a few months. What a waste.
Then on top of that disaster, the Genex unit started doing some strange things. I lost a few tracks on one session, which was not a big deal on this particular project, as we just recut a solo and a shaker, but it could have been a major catastrophe! This also got me worried... Also around this time, I found out Genex the company was in real trouble. I spoke with quite a few engineers and producers who had units of their own, and getting parts, and or service was just about impossible... Remember this was a proprietary recorder, and there were only a few of them out there, I had the ONLY remote control as far as I know. This was very troubling. So I held on as long as I could, but once again...when the company was down to just the owner (designer) and there was no service or parts to be had, I had to sell this also at a GREAT loss to someone who needed a spare machine for parts. You know you can't make this shit up... And it was really too bad, cause at that time I never heard any recorder that sounded that good. Beside the sound, the way that DSD worked in that machine was everything was destructive. So it not only sounded the closest to tape, when you punched you lost what was there....and because it used 8 channel cards it was only (at least in my unit) 8 tracks. So I used it exactly like a 8 track analog recorder. OH one thing on the Genex there was NO editing of audio, unlike what you could do on a tape machine.
But the limitations were exactly what I wanted for my 8 track label, and the sound was Glorious! Once again I had to go back to the drawing board and start over, but with what. Next.......
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 21, 2013 18:03:51 GMT -6
Did a few session with this set up. And I must tell ya, the recordings sounded amazing! To me, there is nothing, and or was nothing like recording directly to the Genex in DSD. I remember the band listening to play back of the very first take they did, they ALL had their mouths wide open, because it sounded sooooooo figgin GOOD! It was truly something spectacular. But this rig, this particular choice of gear had it's problems... (I can't be this easy right?) #1 - A was a little bulky, and the gear wasn't protected in my home made rack...(although it got me thinking how I could take this concept further and perfect it) First thing I did, was to change the case to something safer, a SKB Military Shock mount case, which was WAY more secure, but not really any smaller. As a matter of fact it was much larger, and bulkier, although very, very, secure as it was air tight and water proof! I've posted two pics (sorry for the bad photos, that's all I can find right now) of the slow evolution of gear, but you can see where I was headed at this point in time.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 21, 2013 17:42:57 GMT -6
These pics show at the time, my second attempt at building something to go out with... This was a home made wooden rack, just a prototype to see how it would all fit together... And it utilized a Aurora Audio GTM-822 mixer, and a Genex 8 track DSD recorder~!
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 21, 2013 17:23:03 GMT -6
So that being said....
I started to think, what were the reasons I got into this biz in the first place when I was a kid.
Well.. - First, during the 70's when I got started, it was the music. I loved the music, Rock n Roll was amazing, lots of great bands and artists...Every week there wasn something new was groundbreaking on the radio.
- Then it was the gear, and the technology, although limited by todays standards, very much cutting edge for it's time.
- The I really loved working with bands, and working on songs, arrangements, etc. I loved to hang with musicians... - And most of all, I loved the moment when you are tracking something, when you know, (EVERYONE KNOWs), when the magic happens. The hairs on your arms, head or wherever, all stand up, and you get this chill...You can't put you finger on it, but it's there, and it's so real.
But like I said early, that wasn't happening anymore. As a matter of fact, most of the bands weren't even cutting tracks together anymore, just a drummer cutting to a click or a scratch guitar part seemed to be the norm. And I often asked myself, how the hell is this making music?
More to come...
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 21, 2013 17:10:15 GMT -6
Hey Guys... How's tricks? Ok, this is gonna be a few parts story.... More will come as I have time, grab a beer, (or a coupla two tree,) and enjoy my odyssey.... Scum, Let's see, you are correct, the first version of this portable recording rig I designed did have a laptop as it's main recorder. Obviously this was done to make the portable system a bit more manageable. As I had already been going out on locations with a either a Otari, MCI, and or Brennell 1 inch 8 track recorders. It became painfully clear that in this day and age this wasn't making any sense...so I opted for something else. That was when I figured I'd try a computer for recording (which I had never done before) (Actually the very first portable rig I made was a long time ago, and was 24 tracks back in the 90's, but I'll post a photo of that later if I can find one?) Basically I got tired with the crazy track counts I was getting at my place to mix, and all of a sudden I was totally distanced from the music I was working on... Which was sad, cause I really loved my clients, and I had a long history with most, and we all got on great. But the music those last few years just did nothing for me...even more so as things got over produced, over processed, grid'ed, sample added, pitched corrected etc, etc, etc... All of a sudden I hated what I did for a living...and considered getting out. But what else could I do? As I started in this biz with my own studio at age 16...in 1972 So how could this happen?
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 18, 2013 19:16:39 GMT -6
Paper on the tweeter was Bob Clearmountain's trick!
Basically he taped one sheet (square) of toilet paper over the NS-10's tweeters. After mixing for a few hours, when your ears might have been fatigued, he would then peal off the first layer of toilet paper to allow a bit more high end to come thru.. And then would continue mixing...
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 18, 2013 18:26:21 GMT -6
Boy, they really make that look good, and I'm sure it's great (for what it is?) (By the way did Allen say the plug in was great? Or was he just talking about the original Fairchild being the holy grail??? But let's remember. There's the originals, (that are the real deal,) and there's the emulations.
I'm so done with the dumbing down of the audio industry at large...
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Post by nobtwiddler on Oct 19, 2013 9:35:43 GMT -6
I actually received a email from Tony last week... From what I can tell, all's good with him!
He has a few projects he has to finish up before he can move ahead with any new Helios pieces. But he does have some new stuff he wants to bring out.... I guess with the economy being what it is, only time will tell if it's worth continuing ahead with these pieces. We will see, I'm always waiting to see what he has up his sleeve next.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Sept 14, 2013 19:41:49 GMT -6
The new reissues are very close to the originals, with a lot less headaches! Helios' modules, especially the Type 69's have a beautifully clean but woody sound. Very much suited for acoustic instruments, including drums. Personally I love them on everything. A few quirks yes, but after a few days you figure them out and from then on, it's really a beautiful thing.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Sept 4, 2013 7:08:35 GMT -6
Hey Guys, Maybe you'd like to check out a clip of a song I did with Eddie Seville and his band in my little room?
The clip is Eddie tracking the drums, to the tune. In between our chatter, you can hear the sound of the kit using 4 Cloud Ribbon mics. We were looking for a particular sound for this record, and on this track we really got it. The mics are wonderful. I thought that this might give some of you an idea of what is capable in a smaller room, with proper mic'ing techniques, and the correct instrument, & mic choices you can make beautiful music.
On this track I also used the Cloud Mics (2x) on the upright bass!
Enjoy...
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Post by nobtwiddler on Sept 2, 2013 7:18:15 GMT -6
My room is 25 x 25 with a 9 foot ceiling. I've found less mics usually are better in this situation, which is fine by me, because that's my normal procedure anyhow.
I also found that besides the obvious (a great drummer), more then anything else the actual drum kit in that room is the key thing.
When I moved into my new space, which was quite smaller then my previous room of 27 years (45 x 31x 13) I found the actual shell size, wood, and # of ply's (as well as skins) to be more important to the sound in the room then I ever noticed before at my old joint. It took me a few months, and quite a few different kits, sizes (5) to find a set that actually sounds great in my smaller space. Now I have to make No excuses... And 95% of the bands just use my kit, cause it sounds amazing in this room...
My feeling is a bit of experimenting my be in order?
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 26, 2013 18:21:38 GMT -6
Martin, The ad's you saw for the Matchless Thunderman were mine... I originally listed it for 8K, but I did get 5K for it a year later. It was very rare, I believe there were less then 50 made of the version I had. Hence the large selling price. Anyhow, in a nutshell, I only sold it, cause it NEVER sounded as good as any of my 4x B-15's. It was a beautiful amp, built like a tank, and sounded damn good. BUT side by side, it never sounded as great as my B-15's. At the time I also owned, 2 original 69 SVT's, 2 x B-25's, 1 x V4-B, 7 x pre CBS Fender Bassmans all with cabinets, brown, blonde, and black tolex. No matter the music, it was either the SVT's for heavy rock, or the B-15's for everything else.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 24, 2013 5:06:10 GMT -6
Tony, That's basically my plan. But what's been happening more often then not is, I set up somewhere in the artists house, barn, garage, instead of being outside in a truck. And I have t tell ya, I love the instant communication with the musicians! It's really a very cool way to record, all together in one room, or maybe in the next room. Just not totally isolated. The main difference is I can't get sounds on the fly, I need to print a little snippet of said instrument, and then play it back, listen and then make any adjustments from playback. Repeat and adjust again if needed. It really takes no more time then if I was isolated, as I used to record a piece and play it back for each musician anyway? Since I rarely EQ anything while printing, the process of getting sounds usually happens quite quickly. We make sure we like the sound of what's being recorded, and go from there. It all starts at the other end of the mic...if that don't sound good, then NO mic, EQ, or compression, is gonna help ya.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 23, 2013 21:42:50 GMT -6
Tony, John Thanks guys for the kind words, I really appreciate it... Cause only people like us truly understand why we do these things.
Puttin this rig together was really a labor of love, and the final results have proven to be better then I ever expected!
John, the 760's (more coming) are GREAT. But they are very specific... What I mean is they are very grabby, and vibey, A true COLOR piece. I needed two more, not sure why, but I do...AS I usually use compressor instead of EQ's for color.......you can understand right? Haha.
Anyhow, they work beautifully on bass, lead vocal, drum room, piano, and the stereo two mix, but again you really need to set them correctly. Very, very vibey...
In the meantime, to further clarify, here's a list of what's in the previous photos:
Top Rack #1 Center 8 x channels of Helios Type 69's Mic Pre / Eq's 1 x API 8200A mixer used for summing (if needed) while printing tracks to the Radar. 1 x Neve 8816 - 16 channel Summing mixer, used to monitor playback while recording, and used as the mixer if mixing. 1 x Neve 8201 - 16 channel fader unit for the 8816. 1 x Soundcraft 96 input TT Patchbay for Helios, API and Neve connections 1 x Soundcraft 8 in 8 out XLR Bay for mic connections.
Top Rack #2 Right 6 x channels of Helios Type 69's Mic Pre / Eq's 4 x ShadowHills Mono Optograph Limiters 1 x ShadowHills Dual Vandegraph Stereo Limiter 2 x Helios (ADR) 760 Limiters (2 more on order) 2 x Retro Instruments Double wide Tube Limiters in Revolver Rack (1 shown in photo) 1 x Soundcraft 96 input TT Patchbay for Helios, & Shadowhills, connections. 1 x Soundcraft 8 in 8 out XLR Bay for mic connections.
Top Rack #3 Left 1 x 2 Space rack drawer, holds manuals, discs, drives, etc. 1 x Radar 6 1 x Radar 6 small remote control. 1 x Foldable (into rack) 19 inch screen. 1 x 24 in, 24 out REDCO DSUB connector panel to connect the recorder to the other two racks.
ALL THREE BOTTOM RACKS ACT AS STANDS FOR THE TOP RACKS AND STORE: All the interconnects, DSUBS, TT Cables, the 2 Genelec speakers, The Mono Speaker, Extra drives for the Radar, the 2 Retro Compressors, Little lights, and lots of other small stuff~!
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 23, 2013 20:07:12 GMT -6
Here's a better shot of the racks
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 22, 2013 17:40:11 GMT -6
Until I can afford to purchase a Vintage Helios, I designed and built this little rig basically to feed my Helios habit! Ha Yeah I'm addicted! Anyhow, I specifically picked each piece for it's sonic attributes as well as it's ease of use while recording on location. As you know, things can happen fast, and the last thing I need is to slowed down by too many choices on a piece of gear. NO piece of recording equipment should ever get in the way of a recording session. EVER~! (The main reason I record to Radar, besides it's beautiful sound!) So here's my little Helios, API, Neve, rig... It's part of a new venture for me...A new company called The Band Waggon. (new website soon) Basically a van with all this shit pulls up, we unload everything into said location, and I set up somewhere near the band and hit record! We've been going out on location, to rented cottages, cabins, houses, barns etc... to cut basics for artists and or bands that want to get away from it all and create their vision, with NO distractions. This type of location recording has always been a dream of mine, so I designed & built this little rig, to have a NO excuses set up to capture those type of performances! Each specific piece brings something to the table that when combined sounds absolutely beautiful. THE BAND WAGGON PIC-1 (335.02 KB)
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Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 20, 2013 16:46:47 GMT -6
8 busses During mixdown.
1 & 2 Drums, L & R in the stereo mix...with a stereo compressor that works for the tune. (33609, EMI TG1234, ADL 670, Smart SC-2, or REQ L2M)
3 Bass Di & Amp, mono, up the middle in the stereo mix...with mono a compressor that works for the sound I'm after. (LA-2, LA-3, EMI TG1234)
4 Ld Vox, and maybe a double, mono up the middle in the stereo mix...again with a mono comp. (EMI TG1234, Daking 91579, EMI, ADL 670, etc)
5 & 6 Guitars, L & R in the stereo mix...(comp only used on the channel inserts before the buss, if there are Acoustic guitars, not usually needed on electrics!) On acoustics in this case, a LA-3, Requiste L2M, Joe Meek Sc-2, Langevin Opto,
7 & 8, Bk Vox, and or Keys...Again a comp used lightly on this buss, usually, a second SC-2, 1178, 33609,
Anything else gets sent to the stereo fader, and usually has any Comp/Eq on the individual channels before that.
On the stereo fader (MIX) I use either, the SSL 384, the Shadowhills Mastering comp, Manley Slam, or run the whole damn mix thru the DW Fearn VT-2 with the Line input attenuator and at that point I don't need a damn comp! GO fiigure...
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Helios
Aug 18, 2013 15:29:39 GMT -6
Post by nobtwiddler on Aug 18, 2013 15:29:39 GMT -6
Yep. a beautiful desk indeed. That is the Henry Hirsch desk that is in his studio Waterfront Music in Hudson NY. I believe it's the old "Mushroom" studio console. I sat in front of that beauty a while ago, and if I could afford it, I'd buy it in a minute. Totally rebuilt, & refurbished by Dave Amels, a beautiful thing to behold, and hear trust me.
Sadly enough, Henry has decided to retire, so the console, as well as all his gear, his beloved pianos, as well as the beautiful Church he made into the studio is all for sale...
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