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Post by yotonic on Apr 18, 2015 17:54:06 GMT -6
I've been using this, it's the closest thing. Steinmart.mp3 (369.68 KB)
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Post by yotonic on Apr 18, 2015 17:39:26 GMT -6
I only heard Chris recently on Letterman. I was blown away by his voice and the authenticity of his writing. Made me look for a new job. I thought this live version sounded better than the record. He's gonna appeal to a lot of different audiences. I'm an Allmans fan and this is in that wheel house too.
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Post by yotonic on Apr 18, 2015 8:42:20 GMT -6
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Post by yotonic on Jan 31, 2015 22:32:45 GMT -6
Hey John yes my analogy came off wrong in my post. I like Tony and pretty much don't disagree with him. I was trying to say, that if you hear something you like about a piece of gear you shouldn't have to prove you hear it, if that makes any practical sense. The food analogy was probably a fail, but basically I know a few guys with the MK47 who love it but also hear and acknowledge some of the very expensive albeit subtle characteristics that make a good vintage 47 so sought after. Sorry if my post came off wrong Tony, 12 hour work day.
And I don't know much about mic building just what little I've gleaned from being old. I didn't build my MK47 Toby Foster did mine for me. At the time he had several vintage U47s on his bench, one which used to be mine. He was impressed with the MK47 and I know he built one for a friend. But at the same time he explained to me a number of the reasons that a good vintage U47 is so hard to approximate, from the tube, to the capsule, circuitry etc, things we have all heard before. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade just pointing out my personal experience that I know is shared by a number of others who have owned both the MK47 and a vintage 47. It's really hard to respond to some of the arguments you hear people make about vintage mics being BS. Usually I pass but this is a pretty safe place to share your honest sentiments. And I think I was one of the first guys to offer to buy your MK47 if you don't like it. I'm sure it will be a great build.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 31, 2015 19:42:04 GMT -6
I'm not a DIY guy so my perspective is different than yours Tony. It might drive you crazy but that's how it goes in life. I often go through this with Chefs and foodies. If you can't tell or notice why one Chef's creme brûlée or polenta is better than anothers it doesn't mean it isn't there, that is just your frame of reference. You can't yell at others who have a different palette and say "there is no quantifiable difference". It's a silly argument and doesn't hold true with audio either. I have heard and used all sorts of vintage mics, preamps etc. I can always hear a difference in every piece of gear I use. If you think detail in a microphone is not an advantage, and or the compression effect that a vintage U47 inherently has then that's your personal preference, maybe you don't like hot blondes either
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Post by yotonic on Jan 31, 2015 17:48:31 GMT -6
I have a friend who owns two of the Klaus U87 mods. The mics sound great. Klaus doesn't mess wit the capsule but he does go through the mic and replace some of the electrolytics and other little tweaks that make the mic sound a little more open in the high end. It's not voodoo. Much of it is just a collection of mods guys have made over the years. It reminded me of a more thorough and updated version of the "New York Mod" guys used to do to vintage 87s. Klaus does a lot more than that and it sounds better than the New York Mod.
I personally like the way a vintage U87 sounds, I don't want more of an open top end on it. If I did I would use a different mic like a Sony. Most of these mods are for guys who own one or two mics and think they need to make these changes to their vintage mics which they don't. The vintage U87 sounds best as is.
As far as Tony Campbell's comments I agree that Klaus does try to keep private very simple mods that have been made to Neumanns over the years by many people who came before him. And most of those guys in the old days didn't try to build a cottage business around it but you can't knock the Klaus for building a business, especially as times have changed.
AS far as a MK47 having the potential to be as good as any vintage Neumann U47, sorry Tony but now you're jumping the shark a little. It's a great mic and I love mine, but it will never sound like a vintage Neumann U47. And it doesn't need to. It's close enough and a great tool, but it's no Neumann. In all fairness those vintage Neumanns were made in the post war era and during a time when Germany had the resources and engineers to help spur its development. It's just not fair to compare Max's clone to a vintage Neumann and you don't need to. And most people don't need a vintage Neumann. If you are an accomplished recording artist and you make records for a living I can certainly see why you might choose a vintage Neumann U67 or U47 in the studio, they have a wonderful complexity and sound that is unparalleled in my opinion. But sometimes that's not the right fit or not the signature that's needed.
But make no mistake there is definitely a certain compression and mojo, and detail in a vintage Neumann U47 that is not in the MK47. But you're comparing a $12,000 mic to a $2,000 mic. I would gladly use either one but the Neumann has those little incremental extras the MK47 doesn't have. Just not worth $10,000 extra to me unless it's in someone else's studio. LOL
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Post by yotonic on Jan 30, 2015 21:35:27 GMT -6
Here you go since John is so modest:
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Post by yotonic on Jan 30, 2015 20:36:17 GMT -6
At 61 ?? Jesus that's like 48 today.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 30, 2015 19:50:48 GMT -6
LOL!! I knew I had one too many gin&tonics at dinner. At least the 15 year olds on Gearslutz would have appreciated this. Along with my auto tune tricks...
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Post by yotonic on Jan 30, 2015 19:40:55 GMT -6
Don't count out the Flea K47 capsule. Ivan has a custom backplate design and I love it in my MK47.
No one probably wants to hear this but I have owned vintage Neumann U47s long and short body, Grosser Voxorama, Telefunken U47 reissue, every capsule, and just about anything money could buy. Unfortunately in the end the most noticeable improvement came from working with other vocalists who shared breathing, and mouth, and tone shaping tips that changed resonance, eq, and tone more than my Neve preamps or vintage mics.
An Sm58 with a good preamp and excellent vocal technique and thoughtful arrangement in relation to range and key goes further than any mic, as does good writing in general. Any great phrase or melody positioned right in the sweet spot will sound amazing no matter what mic it is sung on. That's exactly why labels spend so much money on writing camps and teams. Production is so secondary, as much as we all love it.
When I work with singers now, I try to take my very first impression about their voice and either "fix it" or accentuate it. And if you want to keep a client for life help them improve their craft from your own knowledge instead of a box and he or she will be your client for life.My secret weapon is "relaxation" of the vocal chords. Most singers sing too hard which doesn't always translate to tape. A more relaxed and controlled vocal creates a tone that just hammers. A harder sung vocal thins out even though the singer doesn't realize it. The mic is the least important part of getting a good vocal unless your client is a complete pro.
I love what the Black Keys do with the Neumann KM84. That's a singer who understands his own tone and trademark sound.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 29, 2015 6:23:43 GMT -6
"Originally, The Verve had negotiated a licence to use a five-note sample from the Oldham recording, but former Stones manager Allen Klein (who owned the copyrights to the band’s pre-1970 songs) claimed that The Verve broke the agreement and used a larger portion. Despite its original lyrics and string intro (by Wil Malone & Ashcroft), the music of "Bitter Sweet Symphony" was sampled from the Oldham track, which led to a lawsuit with ABKCO Records, Klein's holding company, and eventually settled out of court. The Verve relinquished all of their royalties to Klein, owner of ABKCO Records, whilst songwriting credits were changed to Jagger/Richards/Ashcroft.
The Verve bassist Simon Jones said, "We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing. They rung up and said we want 100 percent or take it out of the shops, you don't have much choice."
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Post by yotonic on Jan 28, 2015 20:48:43 GMT -6
They rely on musicologists? They didn't have that major when I went to music school. Is this another byproduct of our court systems, like criminologists and astrologists. Or just our universities creating more majors to have someplace to graduate all these students to they churn through at criminal tuition rates
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Post by yotonic on Jan 28, 2015 17:34:04 GMT -6
I agree with Tony, it's so easy to order one or two converters at a time and compare them in your studio and return one or both before your credit card bill even comes due. Even if we are talking about $2000 converters there are plenty of smaller dealers who will send you their demo unit with just a deposit on your credit card. Same thing goes for mics. Even if you can't afford to demo them side by side you can record files on your computer for sequential comparisons.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 13:49:17 GMT -6
Thanks yotonic, much appreciated. That's one of the problems with this "guide" track. I did it to just a high hat, and the headphone mix was rough, with the guitar and vocal on one mic, So there's not much I can do about timing if I want to keep the track, I might try dropping the high hat so the the timing's not so noticeable in the intro, I really appreciate the feedback. Well the whole point is that this is your sweet spot as a singer songwriter. You should be playing that song everyday along with whatever else is in your daily practice repertoire, and you should be able to easily track it again and again. Then you take your three favorite songs and show up at Oliver's Mission Sound in Brooklyn and cut all three on the spot with players he can line up for you. And living in NY you should be forcing yourself to play out. I wouldn't recommend cutting a song until you've played it for 3-6 months. But I would keep that one. That take isn't magic, it's you and I'm sure you can do it again and again.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 13:41:18 GMT -6
LOL !!!!!
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 10:41:54 GMT -6
Well, the Chiffons won the lawsuit. lol. Nobody cares anymore anyway, no one makes money from music smh... LOL Truth
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 10:23:02 GMT -6
Yeah the Sm7 sounds perfect here! Get your snare cracking, and fix the timing on your guitar strumming in the opening Martin and you've got a nice track. I like it. Maybe some BGVs near the end. Good vibe, authentic, strikes me as you.
I don't think it "needs" the organ.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 10:02:31 GMT -6
Correct. A lot of players perform differently while accompanying the singer. Different accents, more vibe and interesting pacing in places. Sometimes a guide vocal will just be kept when possible. I get that, but why an SM7? Especially if you know it's probably the 'wrong' mic. Sounds like the answer is that it's a good 'live' mic, but not necessarily a good tracking mic - unless you're looking for something that cuts through the rock? Almost "never" will the Sm7/58 be the wrong mic. It will be your singer needs more help. The pattern on the SM7/58 is hugely universal capturing a lot of the 47, 87, and many other well known mics. Any good singer from Paul Rodgers to Bono to Ray LaMontagne to Brandon Boyd can build an entire career around it. The 67 and 87 spread like wildfire in the seventies because everybody in LA and NY started using them to make records (without compressors). There is an obsession with compressors and LDCs today that relates to the loudness wars, home studios, the dying off of the old studio business and it results in people getting the wrong idea of how great records are made. There are so many other things that go into making a professional level record that the difference between choosing an Sm7 and a U87 for example "should be" tiny. But in project studios, and demo mills it becomes a crutch to "fake" a radio sounding recording.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 9:41:25 GMT -6
I love this mic for male rock vocals. Its the classic...doesnt blow your mind solo'd but just cuts and sits in a mix perfectly. Really versatile...I like it through my API the channel. It's a really focused sound completely opposite of my MK47 which is huge full with some natural air. I can def understand why the Nashville guys would not like this mic...especially for vocals. This mic is a "go to" for some of the best guys in Nashville. It just needs a really good preamp aka Neve etc. I love what Charlie Peacock did with The Civil Wars. That record was his vintage Neve and the Sm7, the vocals are super vibey and the focal point. The arrangements are stripped down and you would think LDC would be the choice but the SM7 fits better as you say. Also all of Ray LaMontagne's hit records with Ethan Johns are the Sm7 and Universal Audio preamp. In my experience a lot of producers or artists will gravitate towards an LDC to try and pump up the vocal as part of the loudness wars. Guys just assume they need to use their biggest gun, but sometimes that's a mistake. Sometimes if you can use the restraint that an experienced painter or producer does, then you can have all of the parts and colors come together to create something more musical and vibey in the end. I struggle using the SM7 because it's not as hyped up as an LDC. But it definitely filters out a lot of noise and other frequencies that an LDC introduces, which results in this simpler more focused sound much like a single analog note ringing on a piano. There is something about a good Neve preamp that pairs really well with the Sm7. I've used everything from a Fearn to UA to Neve with it and the 1073 really elevates that mic to its full potential.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 9:23:25 GMT -6
Funny, it seems to be the go-to microphone in Nashville for guide vocals done in the room with the band. And just about every radio station in the country uses them for their on air mics, so you will see them in almost every "on air" artist performance.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 9:20:04 GMT -6
Correct. A lot of players perform differently while accompanying the singer. Different accents, more vibe and interesting pacing in places. Sometimes a guide vocal will just be kept when possible.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 27, 2015 9:10:48 GMT -6
Sam's production team wasn't trying to bite Petty, trust me he was the last artist they were channeling. These guys were writing a gospel, blue eyed soul track specifically for the UK market and looking at what Adele did etc. They were trying to copy tracks of recent commercial success in the UK. And low and behold this thing hit them. You know in today's marketplace they have no money set aside to litigate with Petty's publisher EMI. I'm sure they said "shit" we have to pay this we have no other options.
Not to mention Sam's publishing company Sony ATV recently acquired Petty's EMI.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 26, 2015 20:24:23 GMT -6
Yes Petty can sue this guy for being a total douche bag
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Post by yotonic on Jan 26, 2015 19:17:55 GMT -6
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Post by yotonic on Jan 26, 2015 19:06:23 GMT -6
Lol. The guys in Daughtry's own band can't even get songs on the record. The record company dictates everything. Daughtry travels around writing with songwriting team after songwriting team. And guys scramble to be in that list selected by the record company. All of the writing of course is done for free hoping to land a track. And RCA was super specific on how they wanted him to change direction on this last album. I know guys in the band and I couldn't even understand what his new sound or format was, that's the problem when you start getting too formulaic and are "trying" to sound like "something".
I always liked the original Chris, even if it was a little over the top, he epitomized that genre well and you couldn't help singing along to some of those ballads. Most guys in record companies are the same idiots who own nightclubs, or boutique vodkas, or marketing companies, or some sort of silly startup, or fashion line. They are your local hustlers and entrepreneurs who know what jeans people in the neighborhood are wearing, what music kids are dancing to, what people will spend their money on. Russell Simmons to Clive Davis have this simple skill. Once you try to add too much science over the top of it, the whole thing veers off course like a bad IPO.
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