kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 4:33:26 GMT -6
I thought Stem reduced the number of tubes but argue it doesn’t change the sonics ?
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 13, 2021 8:56:16 GMT -6
I thought Stem reduced the number of tubes but argue it doesn’t change the sonics ? they did, but only by making the power supply solid state. Which is also more reliable. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 13, 2021 10:21:38 GMT -6
IMO, a power supply is the very ESSENCE of what a unit sounds like. For better or worse. I have spent waaaayyyy to many hours listening too different iterations of power supplies and making adjustments to tilt units to where we wanted them. They can completely change the entire character of a unit. Just sayin'....
Power supplies are not to just "turn the unit on".
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Post by stam on Apr 13, 2021 11:31:10 GMT -6
IMO, a power supply is the very ESSENCE of what a unit sounds like. For better or worse. I have spent waaaayyyy to many hours listening too different iterations of power supplies and making adjustments to tilt units to where we wanted them. They can completely change the entire character of a unit. Just sayin'.... Power supplies are not to just "turn the unit on". I do not agree. That would be the case if the power supply is poorly designed but when it's a well implemented design I have confirmed it's irrelevant whether it's tube based or solid state on this particular unit and it's certainly not the essence of what this unit could/should sound like. This is of course, as everything, debatable. Our experiences differ. I have made 1:1 Fairchild replicas for a bunch of clients (All transformers, tubes and tube power supply) and they sound pretty much identical to the Stamchild. I can send you some clips if you want and you can guess which one is which. |
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Post by matt@IAA on Apr 13, 2021 11:43:16 GMT -6
A 670 has 8 tubes per channel. The input is four 6386s in two pairs parallel, and the sidechain is four more (a 12AX7, a 12BH7A, and a pair of 6973s).
The original power supply has four tubes. A GZ34 rectifier, an EL34 and 6084 as a voltage regulator, and a 5651 voltage reference tube. Can't comment as to how changing the PSU changes the sound, except that the PSU is not a trivial design.
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Post by stam on Apr 13, 2021 11:52:54 GMT -6
Not trivial at all. That is why the only way is to build it completely like the original, prototype and listen.
From there you can start modifying things and see what does what and how it affects the sound of the unit and it's behavior.
The power supply was not one of those things on THIS design. I have found it crucial on others.
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Post by Ward on Apr 13, 2021 13:00:50 GMT -6
Congratulations Indiehouse! I'm excited about the 660. I like but don't love LA2A's, don't care much for 1176's except for guitars, never had a Tube Tech to try, but a Fairchild was always my holy grail. I should be getting a 660 soon and will follow up with tracks and a video for sure. All I know about your voice, and methods, I can guarantee you a CL1b is going to work with you every single time. If I ever move back to Lawn Guy Land . . . you know what I'm saying. Maybe I'll have a Stamchild by then as well. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 13, 2021 13:04:31 GMT -6
I thought Stem reduced the number of tubes but argue it doesn’t change the sonics ? Some think it's a moot point, others argue it's essential . . . I have not had enough experience with either to weigh in, but I will say that changing things like the number of tube stages and transformers makes a huge difference... The cleanliness of my TLM170 does not make up for the character of my U89s. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 13, 2021 13:25:37 GMT -6
Aren’t some of the tubes in a Fairchild not in the audio path, ie in the power supply?
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 13, 2021 13:27:49 GMT -6
Aren’t some of the tubes in a Fairchild not in the audio path, ie in the power supply? yes. But not in Stam's as they use a solid state one. can read the last few posts that talk about it in much better detail. |
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Post by ragan on Apr 13, 2021 13:31:13 GMT -6
Yeah that’s what I was remembering/getting at. The pronounced differences we tend to talk about between tube/solid state/transformer-coupled/transformerless are almost always referring to differences in the audio path. Not that power supply is irrelevant. Sometimes it’s hugely important.
Also I am posting a lot of nothing lol, already covered better by others. I was just pointing out that “well my tube mics sound way different than my FET mics” or whatever is not a question of power supply, which doesn’t even really need pointing out.
<shows self the door>
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Post by drbill on Apr 13, 2021 13:45:25 GMT -6
IMO, a power supply is the very ESSENCE of what a unit sounds like. For better or worse. I have spent waaaayyyy to many hours listening too different iterations of power supplies and making adjustments to tilt units to where we wanted them. They can completely change the entire character of a unit. Just sayin'.... Power supplies are not to just "turn the unit on". I do not agree. That would be the case if the power supply is poorly designed but when it's a well implemented design I have confirmed it's irrelevant whether it's tube based or solid state on this particular unit and it's certainly not the essence of what this unit could/should sound like. This is of course, as everything, debatable. Our experiences differ. I have made 1:1 Fairchild replicas for a bunch of clients (All transformers, tubes and tube power supply) and they sound pretty much identical to the Stamchild. I can send you some clips if you want and you can guess which one is which. Stam - I'm not speaking specifically to your units. I'm speaking overall. I don't care if they are tube Power Supplies, traditional linear supplies or SMPS power supplies. Power is the single most important aspect of how a unit sounds. Change the PS - change the sonics of how the unit delivers. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Surprises me that you have not gone down that rabbit hole..... Or maybe you have. Personally - although I don't really have a "Gotta have one" need for a 670, I'd probably prefer one with a solid state PS solution, cause when you get THAT many tubes in something......well, you're well aware. Power is the essence IMO. It's the air and the food our gear eats / breathes. Without it, nothing turns on, and with it, and with the uniqueness of each supply, stuff changes. Sometimes for the better. Sometimes for the worse. I could go into it further but it would only bore 99% of people who are just happy that their gear powers on and works!  |
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Post by EmRR on Apr 13, 2021 13:46:59 GMT -6
It's a regulated power supply - really easier SS without much difference. If we were talking about an CLC versus SS regulated that'd be a whole different ballgame. A regulated supply is lower impedance. It's only the vintage compressors (not limiters) like 436/Stalevel/Unilevel/etc that lack regulation.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 13:55:42 GMT -6
I would think as long as the audio circuit sees the power and ground it was designed for the sonics should be fine?
Not stated above, but I thought Josh had stated in the past that when they tried recreating the original psu it was more challenging and inconsistent, so switching was about improved psu performance same sonics?
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Post by drbill on Apr 13, 2021 15:20:19 GMT -6
I would think as long as the audio circuit sees the power and ground it was designed for the sonics should be fine? The rabbit hole goes way deeper than that. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 15:32:24 GMT -6
I understand but the circuit is the circuit, the power the power, if the circuit gets the right power it should not sound sonically different, if it does, doesn’t that suggest some internal electrical inconsistency ?
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Post by EmRR on Apr 13, 2021 15:48:47 GMT -6
I understand but the circuit is the circuit, the power the power, if the circuit gets the right power it should not sound sonically different, if it does, doesn’t that suggest some internal electrical inconsistency ? Impedance of the power supply. Stability of the power supply under varying loads. You have to define "right power" for "circuit in question". |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 16:11:47 GMT -6
Just meant what ever the characteristics of the original psu were if they can be re-created by a solid state psu, wouldn’t that be inherently more consistent then a tube base psu ?
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Post by drbill on Apr 13, 2021 16:20:24 GMT -6
I understand but the circuit is the circuit, the power the power, if the circuit gets the right power it should not sound sonically different, if it does, doesn’t that suggest some internal electrical inconsistency ? There is no "right" power beyond it powering up and having enough juice to do the job. Beyond that things quickly get very grey and one man's "right" is another man's "wrong". Do you want vintage sounding? Do you want it to sound big? Do you want punchy? Do you want high headroom? Do you want big bottom? Do you want crystalline HF transparency? These all play into choosing parts for the PS and emphasizing one will undoubtably "hurt" another. My most utmost respect goes to the man/woman who can design a superior and ultimately fantastic sounding power supply that makes the piece of gear it's designed to go with become "a classic". |
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Post by seawell on Apr 13, 2021 16:21:51 GMT -6
There is a video of Jack Joseph Puig I saw somewhere(mix with the masters?) discussing how important the Fairchild power supply is. I think if I were buying a modern re-creation I would prefer solid state though if it somehow didn’t sacrifice any of the sound. It’s hot enough in the studio as is with all this gear 🥵
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 16:45:14 GMT -6
“ There is no "right" power beyond it powering up and having enough juice to do the job.”
Your overthinking this for me, your statement above is all I meant by “right”. If the new psu satisfies those conditions, then everything else should be sonics?
Would be interested in hearing the a/b tracks Josh was talking about?
This is such a classic piece of gear that a solid modern clone is quite an accomplishment.
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Post by drbill on Apr 13, 2021 17:59:20 GMT -6
The power supply IS the sonics. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 13, 2021 18:09:27 GMT -6
When I had the Blackspade mics, they updated the power supply, so at one time, I had both. The new power supply did give it more transparency. So I experienced how power supplies can make a noticeable difference in sound quality.
Stam clearly understands that and mentioned he tested the various types and chose the solid state one. He also mentioned this was done in the case of the Stamchild, and that it's entirely possible it could make a significant difference in another context.
I've learned to trust his judgement. My SA67 sounds right to me, and the SA-73 was the closest I could find to the original Neve preamp at the time I got it. I chose that over the Great River, which is a very good preamp.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 13, 2021 18:25:13 GMT -6
I guess Dr Bill we will just have to agree to disagree.
The whole premise of Josh replacing the psu was that was not affecting the sonics, as long as the circuit’s power needs are met, then the sound comes from everything else?
I understand your point above about power supplies affecting sonics, guess it would be hard to get two optimally running Fairchilds one with stock psu one win SS and shoot them out, but that would be interesting !
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Post by drsax on Apr 13, 2021 18:37:40 GMT -6
I’ve got a Stamchild on the way here in a few days. I’ll be able to out it up beside some pretty heavy hitters in the tube dept... (Retro STA Level, innertube audio dual atomic squeezebox). I’ll be interested to see how it performs. As long as it sounds amazing I’m cool with a tube or solid-state power supply. Looking forward to trying this one out.
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