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Post by Quint on Jun 23, 2022 12:40:00 GMT -6
I got the LYD 48 yesterday (in white). I didn't have time to do a proper burn in as suggested by Dynaudio. I just wanted to hear them. Initial thought: It's a bit hard to believe these came from the same company that made the Air 6 monitors. I was expecting them to be a bit different but I was kind of shocked by how different they are. The biggest change is the mids. The LYD 48 has all the mids (and then some) that I felt were a little light in the Air 6. The lows were about the same, possibly a little more low end. The high end felt a little veiled on the LYD 48 in comparison. I think it's because the mids are so much more present. A rough guess would be that frequencies between about 200hz-1khz are more present in the LYD 8. I played a lot of reference tracks on both and switched back and forth. Most references sounded good on the Air 6. At least half the references sounded kind of bad on the LYD 48. I think problems in the mid-range are much more apparent on the LYD. The Air 6 are more pleasant to listen to and they are better for hearing the tail of a reverb. The LYD 48 masks that detail a little due to the mids. It's interesting how some of my references sound "honkey" on the LYD 48 but fine on the Air 6. I'm not sure which is more accurate but i think the LYD will help make a few mid-range mix decisions easier. That's just a first reaction without having them properly setup on stands. My stands were made for the Air 6 so the LYD 46 has to be raised 5 inches to match, due to the horizontal positioning. I'll be burning these in over the weekend. I do think they will work out well. The detail in the mids showed me some real problems on current mixes already. I wonder how much different they will sound once I burn them in? Anyone notice a real difference or is that sort of "snake-oil"? Well come to the world of 3 ways with a Dome mid. A quick look at the Air 6 looks like it uses a variant of Dyns Esotec tweeter, a very very special tweet that most agree works better in a 3 way where as the LYD48 uses a more standard Dyn. Over time the LYD should open up but it’s not going to sound like the Esotec, however it mesh better with the standard Dyn mid. While not my favorite affordable mid dome the Tange Band copy can be found in some $15000 speakers so yeah no suprise you find it an improvement. As for discovering flaws in reference material, a friend was over the other day and wanted to hear the Questeds, well his taste was 90’s radio hits, stuff that didn’t sound bad in the Car Lifehouse, Vertical Horizon, adult contemporary brain worms, hey I found myself singing along in the car. Well those $75 Skanspeak mid domes showed all the edges almost buzzing distortion on the vocals, the guy said they must be broken, well 12min of listening to Rumors and Abbey Road had the guy thinking he didn’t want a good pair of speakers, he prefer to see the emporer as wearing robes than naked. Nice review keep us updated. Old thread. I know. However, I've got some debt paid down and I was looking at finally pulling the trigger on some Lyd 48s or possibly even something else more expensive, if I can swing it, like the Core 47, Core 59, or the KH310. Anyway, your comment about a dome mid on the Lyd 48 piqued my interest. Is this correct? I'm no expert on this stuff, but the mid on the Lyd 48 looks like a cone to me. I'm just wondering because the Neumann KH310 has a dome mid, I believe, and that gets rave reviews. I know that I certainly like soft dome tweeters, so the subject of a dome mid interests me, in general. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Jun 23, 2022 14:48:29 GMT -6
Well come to the world of 3 ways with a Dome mid. A quick look at the Air 6 looks like it uses a variant of Dyns Esotec tweeter, a very very special tweet that most agree works better in a 3 way where as the LYD48 uses a more standard Dyn. Over time the LYD should open up but it’s not going to sound like the Esotec, however it mesh better with the standard Dyn mid. While not my favorite affordable mid dome the Tange Band copy can be found in some $15000 speakers so yeah no suprise you find it an improvement. As for discovering flaws in reference material, a friend was over the other day and wanted to hear the Questeds, well his taste was 90’s radio hits, stuff that didn’t sound bad in the Car Lifehouse, Vertical Horizon, adult contemporary brain worms, hey I found myself singing along in the car. Well those $75 Skanspeak mid domes showed all the edges almost buzzing distortion on the vocals, the guy said they must be broken, well 12min of listening to Rumors and Abbey Road had the guy thinking he didn’t want a good pair of speakers, he prefer to see the emporer as wearing robes than naked. Nice review keep us updated. Old thread. I know. However, I've got some debt paid down and I was looking at finally pulling the trigger on some Lyd 48s or possibly even something else more expensive, if I can swing it, like the Core 47, Core 59, or the KH310. Anyway, your comment about a dome mid on the Lyd 48 piqued my interest. Is this correct? I'm no expert on this stuff, but the mid on the Lyd 48 looks like a cone to me. I'm just wondering because the Neumann KH310 has a dome mid, I believe, and that gets rave reviews. I know that I certainly like soft dome tweeters, so the subject of a dome mid interests me, in general. Whew - boy, do I love my KH310s. They sound so natural to me. I've still never heard the LYD48s, but I'm sure I would like them, too. But seriously, wow on these KH310s.  |
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Post by Quint on Jun 23, 2022 15:19:20 GMT -6
Old thread. I know. However, I've got some debt paid down and I was looking at finally pulling the trigger on some Lyd 48s or possibly even something else more expensive, if I can swing it, like the Core 47, Core 59, or the KH310. Anyway, your comment about a dome mid on the Lyd 48 piqued my interest. Is this correct? I'm no expert on this stuff, but the mid on the Lyd 48 looks like a cone to me. I'm just wondering because the Neumann KH310 has a dome mid, I believe, and that gets rave reviews. I know that I certainly like soft dome tweeters, so the subject of a dome mid interests me, in general. Whew - boy, do I love my KH310s. They sound so natural to me. I've still never heard the LYD48s, but I'm sure I would like them, too. But seriously, wow on these KH310s. The thing that worries me about the KH310 is the wave guide. I know the wave guide is seen as a benefit to a lot of people, due to the wave guide's ability to vertically and horizontally narrow the dispersion field in order to reduce first reflection issues in a small or low ceiling room. However, I've have a large room (24x30) with pretty good treatment, and I would actually be worried that I would end up with a narrower sweet spot than I'd prefer, if I'm not being forced to make a tradeoff via the wave guide. But maybe I fundamentally misunderstand the way the wave guide is working on the KH310? |
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Post by svart on Jun 23, 2022 15:19:27 GMT -6
Go check out my KH310D review in the review section.
I like mine too. I don't see how I could really need anything else at this point. They do what they're supposed to do and they don't get in my way. What else can I ask for?
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Post by svart on Jun 23, 2022 15:22:01 GMT -6
Whew - boy, do I love my KH310s. They sound so natural to me. I've still never heard the LYD48s, but I'm sure I would like them, too. But seriously, wow on these KH310s. The thing that worries me about the KH310 is the wave guide. I know the wave guide is seen as a benefit to a lot of people, due to the wave guide's ability to vertically and horizontally narrow the dispersion field in order to reduce first reflection issues in a small or low ceiling room. However, I've have a large room (24x30) with pretty good treatment, and I would actually be worried that I would end up with a narrower sweet spot than I'd prefer. The waveguide on the tweeter is horizontally wider. Less reflections from above or below. I also think with a treated room, reflections from a distance will be much less of a problem than a narrow sweet spot. I much prefer a wider sweet spot that I can move around in within reason. |
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Post by Quint on Jun 23, 2022 15:28:53 GMT -6
The thing that worries me about the KH310 is the wave guide. I know the wave guide is seen as a benefit to a lot of people, due to the wave guide's ability to vertically and horizontally narrow the dispersion field in order to reduce first reflection issues in a small or low ceiling room. However, I've have a large room (24x30) with pretty good treatment, and I would actually be worried that I would end up with a narrower sweet spot than I'd prefer. The waveguide on the tweeter is horizontally wider. Less reflections from above or below. I also think with a treated room, reflections from a distance will be much less of a problem than a narrow sweet spot. I much prefer a wider sweet spot that I can move around in within reason. I get that the wave guide is more narrow vertically than it is horizontally, but doesn't the wave guide still narrow the horizontal field to one degree or another, at least when compared to a monitor with no wave guide? I too prefer, if possible, a wider sweet spot that I can move around in, which is why I was concerned that the Neumann would actually have a narrower sweet spot than I was used to. But it sounds like you're saying that the KH310 has a wider sweet spot than normal? I'm confused. Edit: I went and read your review. I do see that you're saying these have a wide sweet spot. This still confuses me, as I would think any wave guide at all would narrow the field to one degree or another. In any case, it's good to know that a narrow sweet spot doesn't seem to be a concern. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2022 15:39:37 GMT -6
From Neumann site:
“Neumann's Elliptical Mathematically Modeled Dispersion (MMD) waveguide was implemented with the application of mixing at a large-format console in mind. It provides a smoother off-axis response, essentially widening the KH 310's "sweet spot" and allowing you to move across the console without a decrease in audio quality. Coupled with the 4-position bass, low-mid, and treble acoustic controls, it allows the KH 310 to function ideally in a variety of acoustic environments.“
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Post by svart on Jun 23, 2022 15:44:02 GMT -6
The waveguide on the tweeter is horizontally wider. Less reflections from above or below. I also think with a treated room, reflections from a distance will be much less of a problem than a narrow sweet spot. I much prefer a wider sweet spot that I can move around in within reason. I get that the wave guide is more narrow vertically than it is horizontally, but doesn't the wave guide still narrow the horizontal field to one degree or another, at least when compared to a monitor with no wave guide? I too prefer, if possible, a wider sweet spot that I can move around in, which is why I was concerned that the Neumann would actually have a narrower sweet spot than I was used to. But it sounds like you're saying that the KH310 has a wider sweet spot than normal? I'm confused. Edit: I went and read your review. I do see that you're saying these have a wide sweet spot. This still confuses me, as I would think any wave guide at all would narrow the field to one degree or another. In any case, it's good to know that a narrow sweet spot doesn't seem to be a concern. Waveguides widen the dispersion by increasing coupling of the diaphragm with the forward air volume as well as the reduction in baffle diffraction. This smooths the frequency response to reduce beaming in addition. I guess an analogy is blowing through a straw. The air front is very focused, with a gentle dispersion vs. blowing through a funnel backwards which immediately disperses the air front. |
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Post by Quint on Jun 23, 2022 22:45:59 GMT -6
I get that the wave guide is more narrow vertically than it is horizontally, but doesn't the wave guide still narrow the horizontal field to one degree or another, at least when compared to a monitor with no wave guide? I too prefer, if possible, a wider sweet spot that I can move around in, which is why I was concerned that the Neumann would actually have a narrower sweet spot than I was used to. But it sounds like you're saying that the KH310 has a wider sweet spot than normal? I'm confused. Edit: I went and read your review. I do see that you're saying these have a wide sweet spot. This still confuses me, as I would think any wave guide at all would narrow the field to one degree or another. In any case, it's good to know that a narrow sweet spot doesn't seem to be a concern. Waveguides widen the dispersion by increasing coupling of the diaphragm with the forward air volume as well as the reduction in baffle diffraction. This smooths the frequency response to reduce beaming in addition. I guess an analogy is blowing through a straw. The air front is very focused, with a gentle dispersion vs. blowing through a funnel backwards which immediately disperses the air front. Not doubting you on how they work. I just assumed that the geometry of an inset tweeter (into the waveguide) meant that the angles narrowed accordingly, but apparently not. Good to know. I know Ericn likes the dome mids, and I trust his opinions. The 310 is still on my list. The rest of the list is comprised of Dynaudio (Lyd 48, Core 47, Core 59), because I just like Dyns, but I'm still thinking about the 310s. |
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