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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 29, 2016 10:47:28 GMT -6
Hey Everyone,
I’m starting to do some homework about a couple of microphones and I would love to get some thoughts about them. It’s taken me a while to figure out my preferred signal chain for my voice, as well as my aesthetic as an engineer. After numerous shoot outs I found that I loved the sound of an ELA M 251 style microphone on my wife’s voice, as well as most female vocalists that have come into my studio. I also found that I love the way my voice sounds on a U67 style microphone. As of right now I have a CM251 and a custom CM67 with a vintage mod from Advanced Audio Microphones and they do the job really well. Maybe it’s a gear head thing, but I’m curious what the best of the best clones or tribute mics are for the U67 and how some of the less expensive 67 style mics are.
The 251 is easy, Telefunken Elektroakustic makes a solid replica which everyone says is amazing and the Bock 251 comes up a lot too (and I’ve used it on my wife, so I know how that one sounds). However, the U67 tribute mics are kind of rare, but there are a couple I’m looking at with curiosity if nothing else.
Wunder CM67S
There seems to be a lack of anything on this mic. In fact many of the videos I’d seen of it have seemingly been pulled off of YouTube or don’t work. I’ve heard it’s in the family of the U67, but brighter. The new Supra version apparently have a darker setting from what I’m reading. Anyone have any experience with this? This is at the higher end of the spectrum and Wunder microphones has a pretty good reputation.
Peluso P67
I’ve heard some mixed info about them. When originally released it was brighter than an original by a bit, not unlike many of Peluso’s offerings. I had reached out to War at Zen Pro to ask about a Mod they once offered allowing for bright-neutral-dark settings. He told me that after the first round of shoot outs came out, John Peluso started making the microphones darker to match the originals more closely. Any one use one?
TLM 67
Not a tube mic, I know. Kind of sounds like a U87ai & a U67 had a baby from what I’ve heard. I have a friend who said the mids on this microphone were horrible, but I’m not sure if that was the mic or the vocalist he had testing it. Been kind of intrigued about this mic, and was curious about other’s experiences with it.
Korby 67
Not sure if Korby closed, looks like they did. Their mics aren’t readily available anymore. I had tried the Kat system and loved the head I tried. I only tried the 67M head, but I’ve heard great sample of their 67.
Anyway, would love to hear some thoughts.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 29, 2016 11:30:07 GMT -6
The TLM 67 I have sounds good stock and with the ioaudio tube retrofit, very different sounding in the treble for starters. Neither has produced a sound which I've rejected so far on any source. The retrofit sounds darker than some samples of original unmodified U67's that I've heard. There are a number of ways to steer it brighter, I've started down that path trying to find a balance between sibilance rejection and available treble which matches those originals. There seem to be some examples of the retrofit which are not as dark, suggesting possible variance in the transformer wind response. The 'bright' mod they ship with now is substantially brighter, more in the territory of a modified original, and will not work with a sibilant performance.
I have not heard any of the others.
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 29, 2016 11:41:47 GMT -6
Hey Everyone, I’m starting to do some homework about a couple of microphones and I would love to get some thoughts about them. It’s taken me a while to figure out my preferred signal chain for my voice, as well as my aesthetic as an engineer. After numerous shoot outs I found that I loved the sound of an ELA M 251 style microphone on my wife’s voice, as well as most female vocalists that have come into my studio. I also found that I love the way my voice sounds on a U67 style microphone. As of right now I have a CM251 and a custom CM67 with a vintage mod from Advanced Audio Microphones and they do the job really well. Maybe it’s a gear head thing, but I’m curious what the best of the best clones or tribute mics are for the U67 and how some of the less expensive 67 style mics are. The 251 is easy, Telefunken Elektroakustic makes a solid replica which everyone says is amazing and the Bock 251 comes up a lot too (and I’ve used it on my wife, so I know how that one sounds). However, the U67 tribute mics are kind of rare, but there are a couple I’m looking at with curiosity if nothing else. Wunder CM67S There seems to be a lack of anything on this mic. In fact many of the videos I’d seen of it have seemingly been pulled off of YouTube or don’t work. I’ve heard it’s in the family of the U67, but brighter. The new Supra version apparently have a darker setting from what I’m reading. Anyone have any experience with this? This is at the higher end of the spectrum and Wunder microphones has a pretty good reputation. Peluso P67 I’ve heard some mixed info about them. When originally released it was brighter than an original by a bit, not unlike many of Peluso’s offerings. I had reached out to War at Zen Pro to ask about a Mod they once offered allowing for bright-neutral-dark settings. He told me that after the first round of shoot outs came out, John Peluso started making the microphones darker to match the originals more closely. Any one use one? TLM 67 Not a tube mic, I know. Kind of sounds like a U87ai & a U67 had a baby from what I’ve heard. I have a friend who said the mids on this microphone were horrible, but I’m not sure if that was the mic or the vocalist he had testing it. Been kind of intrigued about this mic, and was curious about other’s experiences with it. Korby 67 Not sure if Korby closed, looks like they did. Their mics aren’t readily available anymore. I had tried the Kat system and loved the head I tried. I only tried the 67M head, but I’ve heard great sample of their 67. Anyway, would love to hear some thoughts. ADK Z-mod 67 should be on your radar. These are fantastic mics! The ADK 251 actually fared very well in a recent 251 shootout on a thread here somewhere. Only beat out by the real deal. At least worth considering. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 29, 2016 12:22:38 GMT -6
The TLM 67 I have sounds good stock and with the ioaudio tube retrofit, very different sounding in the treble for starters. Neither has produced a sound which I've rejected so far on any source. The retrofit sounds darker than some samples of original unmodified U67's that I've heard. There are a number of ways to steer it brighter, I've started down that path trying to find a balance between sibilance rejection and available treble which matches those originals. There seem to be some examples of the retrofit which are not as dark, suggesting possible variance in the transformer wind response. The 'bright' mod they ship with now is substantially brighter, more in the territory of a modified original, and will not work with a sibilant performance. I have not heard any of the others. Thanks. I was curious about the ioaudio mod, especially because it should work with my U87AI too. That's a thought. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 29, 2016 12:24:33 GMT -6
ADK Z-mod 67 should be on your radar. These are fantastic mics! The ADK 251 actually fared very well in a recent 251 shootout on a thread here somewhere. Only beat out by the real deal. At least worth considering. I'm intrigued by the ADK stuff. From what I've heard they really sound great. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Post by joseph on Nov 29, 2016 13:07:37 GMT -6
Ditto ioaudio mod, which I haven't heard a proper example of myself, but gets good endorsements, and uses same capsule and replicated circuit.
I wouldn't trust any of the 67 inspired mics, as the 67 circuit and feedback network really is one of a kind, not to mention the difficultly of replicating the capsule.
My feeling is the quality of the mod probably comes down to the quality of the starting capsule (not all Neumann capsules are equal) and whether the transformers really are wound close enough to spec. Also hand selecting a tube will bring it closer still.
The nice thing about mod is you can get it with switch LPF off and on.
Three other mics worth looking into are
Sony C37A in good condition
Josephson C715 - like C37a (capsule derived from it) very forgiving on any source, great on female and strident vocalists. needs a good preamp, but can handle high SPL. No sibilance and hardly any plosives.
Brauner Valvet X - sensitive, but not as much so as other Brauner mics. More open and detailed than U87, but generally non-sibilant and flattering on many voices. Check out the samples on Thomann.de.
I'm not a big fan of permanently modded 67s in general because they can be sibilant and sound worse on drums, amps or acoustic guitar.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2016 13:25:22 GMT -6
If you liked the Korby Talk to Shannon!
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Post by drsax on Nov 29, 2016 14:30:52 GMT -6
The TLM 67 I have sounds good stock and with the ioaudio tube retrofit, very different sounding in the treble for starters. Neither has produced a sound which I've rejected so far on any source. The retrofit sounds darker than some samples of original unmodified U67's that I've heard. There are a number of ways to steer it brighter, I've started down that path trying to find a balance between sibilance rejection and available treble which matches those originals. There seem to be some examples of the retrofit which are not as dark, suggesting possible variance in the transformer wind response. The 'bright' mod they ship with now is substantially brighter, more in the territory of a modified original, and will not work with a sibilant performance. I have not heard any of the others. Thanks. I was curious about the ioaudio mod, especially because it should work with my U87AI too. That's a thought. I've got Max's I/O Audio mod on my u87ai and it's fantastic. Put a good telefunken ef86 in it and it's even better. I haven't had the chance to put it against a vintage u67 yet. But it has been impressive so far |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 29, 2016 15:17:32 GMT -6
Shannon got a CV4 extremely close to a vintage 67 in my opinion. And for about $5000 cheaper. Two more options are Shannon's 251s he's making and the Upton 251.
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Post by chasmanian on Nov 29, 2016 17:12:52 GMT -6
In my experience, all Rhoades lead to Shannon.
You would have to sing through his mic, and actually experience it yourself, to understand how good it is.
I do covers of songs by many phenomenal singers from the 30's right up to present day.
I am unabashedly ecstatic with how I sound singing through Shannon's mics.
This all may sound like I'm exaggerating.
To which I would say, talk to me again, after singing through one of his mics. Its euphoric, man.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2016 17:37:57 GMT -6
In my experience, all Rhoades lead to Shannon. You would have to sing through his mic, and actually experience it yourself, to understand how good it is. I do covers of songs by many phenomenal singers from the 30's right up to present day. I am unabashedly ecstatic with how I sound singing through Shannon's mics. This all may sound like I'm exaggerating. To which I would say, talk to me again, after singing through one of his mics. Its euphoric, man. plus with Shannon we are talking about a guy who's going to let you go back and forth till your feeling it's perfect! |
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Post by Guitar on Nov 29, 2016 18:05:27 GMT -6
I have an ADK capsule in my 251 "clone" I would certainly add the ADK brand to your list of things to consider.
I also have two DIY microphones with K67 capsules and C12 amplifiers. Add a 1000 pF capacitor from anode to ground in the amplifier, like a 251 but more HF attenuation for de-emphasis, and you have a gorgeous sounding mic. This is a geeky option, but I love it.
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 29, 2016 22:42:50 GMT -6
Man, if you've already got an 87ai, I'd be super tempted with the ioaudio kit from max. I think he's got the 67 circuit, transformer and tube as a drop in for around $1k. I'll bet it sounds fantastic. I'm guessing that would be your cheapest option. And yeah, another nod to Shannon!
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Post by tasteliketape on Nov 29, 2016 22:51:52 GMT -6
I have a Korby with the 67 cap it is really special .I really don't know how to explain it but I hear something I don't get with most , puts a smile on my face every time I use it . I also have a 251 Korby head that's going to Shannon for tweaking it's nice ,but my money says Shannon makes it better.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 30, 2016 12:28:21 GMT -6
Well guys, Shannon actually reached out to me personally. So I'm definitely going to hear what he has to say since so many of you have such high opinions of his work.
I also just got a quote for the I/O Audio conversion from Max. All in all it looks to be about 930 Euros including shipping. Not bad. I have some stuff to think about. Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I appreciate it.
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Post by ragan on Nov 30, 2016 13:53:10 GMT -6
I am seriously considering grabbing a TLM67 and dropping in Max's U67 mod.
Am I nuts? Any of you guys used it?
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Post by sozocaps on Nov 30, 2016 14:50:24 GMT -6
If you liked the Korby Talk to Shannon! Umm yea and Shannon is miles ahead his old Korby designs.... |
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2016 15:25:30 GMT -6
I am seriously considering grabbing a TLM67 and dropping in Max's U67 mod. Am I nuts? Any of you guys used it? I've thought about this myself. If I already had a TLM67 or 87ai, I'd do it. But even opting for the cheaper TLM67 and assuming you can score a used one at a good deal, you'd be around $2500 or so. Not bad if you're comparing to the cost of a real deal U67, but that's a lot of dough to lay out on a mic I haven't heard, can't demo, and with limited feedback from other users. |
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Post by ragan on Nov 30, 2016 15:30:51 GMT -6
I am seriously considering grabbing a TLM67 and dropping in Max's U67 mod. Am I nuts? Any of you guys used it? I've thought about this myself. If I already had a TLM67 or 87ai, I'd do it. But even opting for the cheaper TLM67 and assuming you can score a used one at a good deal, you'd be around $2500 or so. Not bad if you're comparing to the cost of a real deal U67, but that's a lot of dough to lay out on a mic I haven't heard, can't demo, and with limited feedback from other users. My thoughts exactly. I like what I've heard, clips and user feedback. My voice is strident. I'm looking for a darker, smooth mic. Everything I've heard of Max's mod sounds lovely to me. |
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 30, 2016 15:55:14 GMT -6
I am seriously considering grabbing a TLM67 and dropping in Max's U67 mod. Am I nuts? Any of you guys used it? I've thought about this myself. If I already had a TLM67 or 87ai, I'd do it. But even opting for the cheaper TLM67 and assuming you can score a used one at a good deal, you'd be around $2500 or so. Not bad if you're comparing to the cost of a real deal U67, but that's a lot of dough to lay out on a mic I haven't heard, can't demo, and with limited feedback from other users. I'm kind of curious if the mod would work with an U87 clone like the Stam SA87 or the WA87. I wouldn't need to mess with my U87ai or drop $1500 on the TLM67. Heck I could even pick up a real Neumann K67 Capsule for it down the road. lol. |
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2016 16:09:47 GMT -6
I've thought about this myself. If I already had a TLM67 or 87ai, I'd do it. But even opting for the cheaper TLM67 and assuming you can score a used one at a good deal, you'd be around $2500 or so. Not bad if you're comparing to the cost of a real deal U67, but that's a lot of dough to lay out on a mic I haven't heard, can't demo, and with limited feedback from other users. I'm kind of curious if the mod would work with an U87 clone like the Stam SA87 or the WA87. I wouldn't need to mess with my U87ai or drop $1500 on the TLM67. Heck I could even pick up a real Neumann K67 Capsule for it down the road. lol. I understand that the 'mod' is just a drop in. Totally non-destructive and reversible. I hear it takes only a few minutes. You basically just swap out the guts. I think they were made specifically for the Neumann bodies and caps. I probably wouldn't buy the kit to use on anything else. |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 30, 2016 16:52:12 GMT -6
Max's mod is definitely dark and smooth.
It changes out from a U87ai or TLM67 in 30 seconds or so, maybe 2 minutes by the time you get the PSU hooked back up or phantom turned back on. If you look at his circuit board pics and real U67 pics, it's pretty much an exact PCB clone of the original.
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Post by ragan on Nov 30, 2016 17:21:49 GMT -6
Max's mod is definitely dark and smooth. It changes out from a U87ai or TLM67 in 30 seconds or so, maybe 2 minutes by the time you get the PSU hooked back up or phantom turned back on. If you look at his circuit board pics and real U67 pics, it's pretty much an exact PCB clone of the original. Indeed, which is why I'm very interested in it! You ever use one? Also, the current version now has the brighter "linear" mode as a switchable option. |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 30, 2016 18:03:14 GMT -6
Yes, 2nd post and also comments in the dedicated thread.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 30, 2016 18:11:57 GMT -6
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