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Post by Martin John Butler on May 27, 2016 20:36:40 GMT -6
smallbutfine said, "There is nothing unknown about this."
You may very well be right, but that remains to be seen, doesn't it. How many things in history were "known" only to find out something different at a later time. Recently some distortions have been found in the CD format that people swore weren't there, but some audiophiles have been describing for decades, but only now can they be proved. I didn't believe for a second it was possible that a speaker wire could make a difference in the sound of a stereo system, until I heard it for myself, and it was undeniable.
I guess that's about all there is to say on the subject. I'm going back to thinking about music for a breather ;-)
Have a great holiday weekend guys, take care, watch out for the other guy when driving.
On a completely different note, I just did this fun interview in a small club downtown and played one of my songs relating to many of the great musicians I've known who've passed on.
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Post by rowmat on May 27, 2016 20:38:07 GMT -6
rowdy said,"I'll say it again, spending more than about $10-$15 on an average length (3-4ft) AC power cord only benefits the seller/manufacturer (snake oil salesman)."I'm sorry, but this has not been true for me at all, and for quite a few very smart and discerning people I know. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question from all the posters here, did you ever try this, switching out a few power cables and listening to see if there are any differences?... Yep as I already posted. I did it years ago with half a dozen self confessed audiophiles. We tested a few power cables but specifically a $1500 power cable versus a cheap Chinese generic one. Both 'non' and double blind testing was done. The reason for the test was due to the fact that this was the first highly priced power cable we had encountered. There was plenty of expensive speaker cables and interconnects but audiophile power cables were becoming a whole new industry. Testing was done in a sound lounge at an audio visual retailer I worked for. I managed the Hi-Fi department. We used both CD's and vinyl for the tests. The vinyl system was my Linn Sondek LP12 turntable fitted with an Accuphase AC2 moving coil cartridge. Preamp and power amps were original Harman Kardon Citations (100watts per channel pure Class A) If anything would challenge a domestic power cord that should! A variety of speakers were used, original Infinity's, my Magnaplanar Tympani 1D's and others (it was a long time ago!) The results were as prevously mentioned but again in a nutshell: If they knew the expensive cord was being used they ALL thought it sounded the best. If they knew the cheap cord was being used they ALL thought it sounded the worst. When I tricked them into thinking the cheap cord was the expensive cord they ALL thought it sounded the best. (Now if that doesn't prove expectation bias!!) When we did blind testing they could not consistantly pick one from the other. On average they scored a bit over 50% (correct) which means they were wrong nearly 50% of the time. Since then I have heard systems with expensive power cords but not compared them with other cords. I used generic power cords in our studio and so far our clients haven't complained.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 20:41:04 GMT -6
:-D Yes John, we heard you. ericn : You wrote you would count medical grade power outlets into the world of snake oil. Well, we have other power outlet standard. Our plugs look quite different, and the medical grade outlets just make a tighter contact, more force. Guarantees a good contact. That's why i mentioned it as useful. And they are really cheap, we can even source them from the hospital electriciian when he makes an order. But does it have another "sound"? Noooo, not at all. So, if someone claims this - snake oil.
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Post by mrholmes on May 27, 2016 20:54:39 GMT -6
Whats the difference between fraud and selling this PSU chord?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 27, 2016 21:18:36 GMT -6
:-D Yes John, we heard you. ericn : You wrote you would count medical grade power outlets into the world of snake oil. Well, we have other power outlet standard. Our plugs look quite different, and the medical grade outlets just make a tighter contact, more force. Guarantees a good contact. That's why i mentioned it as useful. And they are really cheap, we can even source them from the hospital electriciian when he makes an order. But does it have another "sound"? Noooo, not at all. So, if someone claims this - snake oil. Here In the U.S. Most of what is marketed in the audio world are expensive "hospital Grade" some are not even UL listed! Years ago when my uncle was head of biomedical Engineering at a well know hospital, he gave me a couple and other than different length of conductors no difference from the same manufacturers regular outlets! This is why I retired my listening space and studio at the time with large twistlock that I had found used in a number of lighting rigs! Go take a look at a twist lock compared to a U.S. "Edison" connector at both ends! I hard wired the Belden shielded power cable to all the components in the Audiophile system! All other cables were Kimber!
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Post by rowmat on May 27, 2016 21:32:08 GMT -6
smallbutfine said, "There is nothing unknown about this." You may very well be right, but that remains to be seen, doesn't it. How many things in history were "known" only to find out something different at a later time. Recently some distortions have been found in the CD format that people swore weren't there, but some audiophiles have been describing for decades, but only now can they be proved. I didn't believe for a second it was possible that a speaker wire could make a difference in the sound of a stereo system, until I heard it for myself, and it was undeniable. I guess that's about all there is to say on the subject. I'm going back to thinking about music for a breather ;-) Have a great holiday weekend guys, take care, watch out for the other guy when driving. On a completely different note, I just did this fun interview in a small club downtown and played one of my songs relating to many of the great musicians I've known who've passed on. Nice job Martin. Don't take my cable debate personally. 'Audiophillia', as I sometimes call it, can arouse passionate debate. I've bought plenty of gear in my time, some great and some... well let's just say I would have got more benefit out of eating a toothpaste sandwich!
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 22:21:30 GMT -6
Sure it is the same for me - actually, i really appreciate passionate debates that really stay friendly, there are enough places in the net, where this is impossible. A nice holiday weekend, Martin and all.
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Post by henge on May 28, 2016 11:31:21 GMT -6
smallbutfine said, "There is nothing unknown about this." You may very well be right, but that remains to be seen, doesn't it. How many things in history were "known" only to find out something different at a later time. Recently some distortions have been found in the CD format that people swore weren't there, but some audiophiles have been describing for decades, but only now can they be proved. I didn't believe for a second it was possible that a speaker wire could make a difference in the sound of a stereo system, until I heard it for myself, and it was undeniable. I guess that's about all there is to say on the subject. I'm going back to thinking about music for a breather ;-) Have a great holiday weekend guys, take care, watch out for the other guy when driving. On a completely different note, I just did this fun interview in a small club downtown and played one of my songs relating to many of the great musicians I've known who've passed on. Nice job Martin. Don't take my cable debate personally. 'Audiophillia', as I sometimes call it, can arouse passionate debate. I've bought plenty of gear in my time, some great and some... well let's just say I would have got more benefit out of eating a toothpaste sandwich! Man, that is a nasty image...toothpaste sandwich! Nasty.;-)
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Post by Guitar on May 28, 2016 17:08:56 GMT -6
It turns out I think what I was hearing with my "upsampling" using the Windows SRC was simply a slight EQ around -2 dB at 15 kHz, along with a lot of aliasing distortion at low levels. If you want to get into it CHECK OUT THIS GUY'S BLOG POST on the topic. Aparently the Windows 10 SRC is a little less than transparent. I'm also still thinking the UH-7000 might sound different, at different speeds, as others have noted with their DACs. In the mean time, I think what I'll do is keep using a -2 dB EQ on my monitors at 16 kHz. I just installed the J River Media Center music playing app and it's blowing my mind! So many functions and features. It's a very powerful music player if you're into that sort of thing. I'm using the parametric EQ DSP inside the J River MC. It's also a lot prettier than foobar2000, or iTunes, and less prone to glitches. The interface and power of it, reminds me of Omnisphere. I think it's only $50 for a license. I guess what I learned here is the tweeters on my Polk RTi A3 monitors are a little too hot for my britches, and need to be tamed slightly. Like the NS10's of yore. Maybe I should break out the tissue paper and tape! In related news, I am really obsessed with understanding digital audio on an academic level now, and I've been reading all day, making small insights.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 19:36:40 GMT -6
I tried the J River software, and man, it drilled and buried itself into windows system like there is no tomorrow. I had a hard time uninstalling. And i am quite experienced with the windows innards since Win3.11 for Workgroups... let's simply say i was pretty p---d off. Using foobar for everything. Never ever had the slightest glitch? Yo, i am not surprised about the Windows DirectSound phenomena. I fell into the windows SRC trap before and was quite swearing a lot until i found out why i suddenly had such a crazy audio latency/lag at everything except the ASIO drivers ... I try to avoid ALL so called features and functions that Win itself has in the audio system. It's a bit like using pulseaudio in Linux: DON'T.
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Post by Guitar on May 28, 2016 19:57:14 GMT -6
Wow, Windows 3.11! That is where I started too. Running PC games and Netscape, etc. Always seemed to spend a lot of time in DOS and eventually the Q Basic language. Hahaha, what fun.
The main glitch I get in foobar2000 is when I switch my audio interface, sometimes I have to reboot foobar to get audio to play again. Also, once in a while, it will just crash, and forget the default playlist changes since the last boot up.
I've only been using JRiver Media Center for about 6 hours now, but initial impression is very good. Audio driver switching is more seamless for the most part, and I like the playlist and "smartlist" features. This is what I wish iTunes could have been. No crashes yet.
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