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Post by rowmat on May 24, 2016 16:52:06 GMT -6
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2016 17:04:12 GMT -6
The Magic Alarm clock that you plugged in and it improves the sound. Or The little cradles for your cables !
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Post by tasteliketape on May 24, 2016 17:09:51 GMT -6
The 47000 $ mic pre in the other thread ? Naw it's probably worth it LoL Also the Live wire cables with the direction arrow on them so you don't have backward electricity flow
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2016 17:10:28 GMT -6
I don't even know how to respond to that...
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Post by EmRR on May 24, 2016 17:32:30 GMT -6
directional wire.
the earliest known version of any tube type being the best.
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Post by matt on May 24, 2016 17:38:59 GMT -6
Microphone reflection/room "filters". Any of them, and I should know, I own three of them by different manufacturers. They are better as plant shades.
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Post by M57 on May 24, 2016 17:51:10 GMT -6
Damn, only 1.25 meters. I really need the 5 meter cable, but at $48,795 it's just too rich for my blood (even though it's really a bargain per meter). Hmm... I suppose I could just move my wall.
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Post by rowmat on May 24, 2016 17:56:02 GMT -6
Microphone reflection/room "filters". Any of them, and I should know, I own three of them by different manufacturers. They are better as plant shades. With a cardioid mic they are of marginal use as the most of the problematic room reflections are picked up by the front of the mic anyway. However they do reduce the room ambience when used behind a figure 8 mic although I suggest to use some extra absorption in the reflection filter such as some soft polyester batting and not position the reflection filter too close to the rear of the mic. Of course if the purpose of the figure 8 was to reduce the off axis sensitvity due to the normal figure 8 side null then altering the rear pickup of a fig 8 mic will effectively defeat all of this and a cardioid mic may just as well be used anyway.
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Post by M57 on May 24, 2016 18:11:17 GMT -6
Microphone reflection/room "filters". Any of them, and I should know, I own three of them by different manufacturers. They are better as plant shades. With a cardioid mic they are of marginal use as the most of the problematic room reflections are picked up by the front of the mic anyway. However they do reduce the room ambience when used behind a figure 8 mic although I suggest to use some extra absorption in the reflection filter such as some soft polyester batting and not position the reflection filter too close to the rear of the mic. Much more important is the absorption you have behind the singer, right? So I'm picturing a one of those reflection filter designs mounted to a shoulder harness that surrounds the singer's head from the back. You know, kind of like.. It's time to open up that Kickstarter account.
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Post by drsax on May 24, 2016 18:19:29 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2016 18:25:35 GMT -6
Just like people with yachts worth 15 million, or people who own their own planes, these are boutique items for millionaires with $100,000 turntables, $150,000 speakers and $150,000 amps and preamps. Like anything else, there's always a ridiculous top of the pyramid. I bet here's a $300,000 pair of sneakers somewhere.
But I'll tell you this, I've had some very expensive cables in my previous system. I used to beta test for a few manufacturers 15 years ago, so they gave them to me. Believe me, you could clearly hear the huge improvement they made. I sold them all to cover hospital bills, today, I have a simple system, but pieces are well chosen.
We fuss like crazy over the slightest difference in a part in a mic, or a particular holy grail tube, or an antique compressor, and then we change out parts! Do you really think we're so different?
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Post by rowmat on May 24, 2016 19:19:57 GMT -6
The main issue with expensive audio gear is 'expectation bias'. I remember years ago reading the forum rules on the 'Audio Asylum' forum. It stated any requests or mention of 'double blind' testing of audio gear would result in an immediate and permanent ban from the forum. I guess the advertising revenue from the makers of $25,000 power cords was considered too good to pass up?
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Post by ragan on May 24, 2016 19:31:35 GMT -6
Damn, only 1.25 meters. I really need the 5 meter cable, but at $48,795 it's just too rich for my blood (even though it's really a bargain per meter). Hmm... I suppose I could just move my wall. It would be cheaper...
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Post by ragan on May 24, 2016 19:35:19 GMT -6
My favorite one is the super kickass incredible platinum ultra oxygen quad mega peerless balanced cable that nulls with every other (generic, cheap) balanced cable I've got.
And then the inevitable response ("I don't need tests, bro, I know what I hear...")
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2016 20:12:58 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2016 20:22:30 GMT -6
Well, here we go again. Jim Williams mentioned he hears improvement with Cardas cabling he uses, I hear definite changes when switching out cables myself.
I just don't see how we can all spend so much time discussing the slightest nuance of a difference between things like PVC or PVT film in a capsule, a NOS tube with a dot on it, minute revisions of a compressor, the difference between a dozen similar wall treatments, studio designs, headphones, a dozen different plugs modeling the same thing, the difference between a late 1959 guitar and an early 1960, the solder we use, capacitance in guitar cables, do a dozen mic tests, buy and sell things endlessly seeking the absolute sound, and still can't open our minds to the possibility that different types of metal, different grades, different designs, different shielding in a cable or power cord might in fact make a subtle but vital difference in what we hear. We play a game of inches here all the time with everything, cables are no different.
Decades ago, I had the most closed mind about this subject you can imagine, but after trying some Tributaries speaker wire that cost $90 and comparing it to my radio shack wire, the difference was undeniable. There was an instrument I couldn't tell if it was real or not, and it was now perfectly clear it was a sample, and there were some words in a few Tom Waits songs I could never decipher that really bugged me that were now perfectly intelligible, and the bass note's pitch was clearer. I didn't need to know much more.
Ragan, try this one day. Just borrow a $150 or more power cord, (look for Acoustic Zen or Harmonic Technology), replace the power cord in your stereo's amp, or get two and replace your powered speaker's power cords, and see what you think. I once mentioned to kcat to try a $50 outlet. He did, and he definitely heard an improvement.
An audiophile friend owed me a few favors. I mentioned I needed a power cord to replace the $5 one that came with my amp. He sent me two. I knew nothing about them at all. Plugged one in, listened, sounded fine, but I couldn't say it was any different than the stock cord, plugged in the other power cord, and the system came to life, mainly in the low end. I could now feel the space it was recorded in, and the depth perception improved dramatically. I didn't care if it cost $20 or $2,000, one was clearly better, and that's the one I still use.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2016 20:27:01 GMT -6
NOT to get into this discussion (or I'll un-ban Tony ) but I have always thought the difference was having regulated or constant power that could change any sort of sonics...never believed in the power cord thing...but hey - to each their own...live and let live. Martin John Butler, even you wouldn't buy a $25k power cord
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Post by sozocaps on May 24, 2016 20:32:51 GMT -6
Capacitors... It's all snake oil. They make absolutely no difference... Joke.. BUT Uber expensive capacitors... Trust me, I know EVERYTHING about making a capacitor and these uber expensive caps , no comment...
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2016 20:34:38 GMT -6
You should come out with your own line of boutique capacitors...$1000 apiece.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 24, 2016 20:40:04 GMT -6
You bet I wouldn't ! But I might spend $250-$350 on a few I know from experience I know are really good, and put the difference toward all the other goodies I dream of having when I get my first $50,000 royalty check for my first number one hit ;-)
I guess the crazy dollar power cords like the Nordost are similar to things that might go into the most finely customized race cars that cost a million dollars. It's probably good for someone whose system might reveal it, but unless the rest of the system is up to that level, who knows. That's not to say there's no there there. You guys have great ears that you've trained to suss out things like a bass needing a notch filter at 250 Hz, you'd probably notice some things when changing cables too. You gotta be patient though, sometime differences reveal themselves in a second hand way. You notice something important two weeks later, and then that's all you notice.
When I beta tested cables, I tracked my listening habits for say.. a month. I'd sometimes find I listen for much shorter time periods with one interconnect, and much longer amounts of time when listening with a different model, yet on the surface, you couldn't be sure there was any difference. Clearly, one fatigued my ears, but it couldn't be shown in an A-B test or a blind test because it took monitoring over long periods of time for me to see it.
That's one thing I like about my Avantone Abbey monitors, I'm comfortable listening all day.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2016 21:06:43 GMT -6
I wonder if power cords matter more or less with Digital amps with switching PSU's?
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Post by yotonic on May 24, 2016 21:16:39 GMT -6
I knew Tony got banned over cord porn. I gave him the name of a good therapist.
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Post by ragan on May 24, 2016 21:23:55 GMT -6
Well, here we go again. Jim Williams mentioned he hears improvement with Cardas cabling he uses, I hear definite changes when switching out cables myself. I just don't see how we can all spend so much time discussing the slightest nuance of a difference between things like PVC or PVT film in a capsule, a NOS tube with a dot on it, minute revisions of a compressor, the difference between a dozen similar wall treatments, studio designs, headphones, a dozen different plugs modeling the same thing, the difference between a late 1959 guitar and an early 1960, the solder we use, capacitance in guitar cables, do a dozen mic tests, buy and sell things endlessly seeking the absolute sound, and still can't open our minds to the possibility that different types of metal, different grades, different designs, different shielding in a cable or power cord might in fact make a subtle but vital difference in what we hear. We play a game of inches here all the time with everything, cables are no different. Decades ago, I had the most closed mind about this subject you can imagine, but after trying some Tributaries speaker wire that cost $90 and comparing it to my radio shack wire, the difference was undeniable. There was an instrument I couldn't tell if it was real or not, and it was now perfectly clear it was a sample, and there were some words in a few Tom Waits songs I could never decipher that really bugged me that were now perfectly intelligible, and the bass note's pitch was clearer. I didn't need to know much more. Ragan, try this one day. Just borrow a $150 or more power cord, (look for Acoustic Zen or Harmonic Technology), replace the power cord in your stereo's amp, or get two and replace your powered speaker's power cords, and see what you think. I once mentioned to kcat to try a $50 outlet. He did, and he definitely heard an improvement. An audiophile friend owed me a few favors. I mentioned I needed a power cord to replace the $5 one that came with my amp. He sent me two. I knew nothing about them at all. Plugged one in, listened, sounded fine, but I couldn't say it was any different than the stock cord, plugged in the other power cord, and the system came to life, mainly in the low end. I could now feel the space it was recorded in, and the depth perception improved dramatically. I didn't care if it cost $20 or $2,000, one was clearly better, and that's the one I still use. I simply don't believe in anecdotal evidence in matters like this. Everyone here has had the experience of tweaking an EQ and going "yeah, that vocal is sitting much better now" only to realize the damn thing is bypassed. It's just easy as hell to fool the ears, eyes, brain. Incredibly easy. So, re: balanced cables, no matter who thinks what about what, how do you answer the fact that they null? It has to be that either I (and many others) did the null tests wrong (over and over) or there's some flaw in the science behind null testing in general. Until someone offers something on those grounds, I gotta go with the null tests. But that's just me. Some people trust their ears (expectation bias be damned) and don't venture to do testing. And that's of course perfectly fine. Me personally, I gotta know the answer. I just don't have the budget to throw money at everything for peace of mind's sake. If something costs more and offers zero benefit, I need to know to not spend my money there. As for the power supply cables, I don't have a strong opinion on that cause I have really no experience with that world. But I am very curious about your feelings on the matter. I know you've talked about outlets and power cables before. What is it you believe they are doing? Not being sarcastic at all, I'm genuinely interested. I do a good bit of residential wiring in my work. There are hundreds of feet of 12 or 14 ga copper running around in our walls. Junction boxes, wire nuts, terminals, all over the place. And that's to say nothing of the dozens or hundreds of miles of wire carrying the voltage to your residential drop in the first place. I'm seriously curious as to what is alleged to be happening in the outlet and/or last 4 feet of wire that is improving the audio?
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Post by rocinante on May 24, 2016 22:33:10 GMT -6
When I first got into building my own gear I went to a lot of those high-end audiophile forums for info where they often talked about issues like which direction the resistors faced to improve the audio polarity continuation. I knew enough about electronics that I knew resistors didn't have polarity but I thought maybe they've discovered something in the last 5 years that I didn't know about. They hadn't. It was complete audiophool bullshit. They even sold preamps which had the resistors 'pointed in the right direction'. All these audiophiles were complimenting the designers well thought out design and attention to detail. I felt crazy cuz it made no sense yet here were all these audiophiles saying the same thing. To be clear; it does not make a bit of difference which direction the resistor faces. They were all either horribly misinformed or relatively insane. Cabling, grounding, decent caps, tubes, quality pots (conductive plastic or carbon) etc... can have noticeable to subtle differences in audio. Ask any neve repairman. The monetary value of the cap, wire, resistor, switch, etc... has no effect. Like rotary switches it is often that they will last for a very very long time and feel nice to turn. Lorlin switches are as effective as grayhill but I've broken a few lorlin in my time. You'd need a f***** hammer to break a grayhill. Now transformers on the other hand can make a lot of difference but this is only dependent on the circuit. I'm not sold on expensive cables but i have a friend who drinks these health shakes everyday and likes to run in the morning. i drink coffee and fart. He swears its the health shake and tries to get mr to go to gnc and get some. Im sure its part of it. That he's got OCD and is a slightly BP is probably a significant part as well.
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Post by Randge on May 24, 2016 22:41:44 GMT -6
Pepper just sold one for about that much...
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