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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2016 12:23:06 GMT -6
There are some plugs that I can't distinguish from the hardware. I use those. I love the convenience of it. Use what makes you happy.
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Post by Randge on May 25, 2016 12:40:52 GMT -6
I wouldn't doubt it. VK was asking $13 not long ago...Ridiculous. Even if they were dipped in gold I wouldn't pay those kind of prices. I like some of the newer mics on the market better and Shannon's magic can take them the rest of the way if I am searching for a certain sound, too. Speaking of that, I need to call him and give him money for my 414's!
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Post by sozocaps on May 25, 2016 13:24:51 GMT -6
There are some plugs that I can't distinguish from the hardware. I use those. I love the convenience of it. Use what makes you happy. Just curious, honest question, what plugs do you think are that close ?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 25, 2016 13:28:16 GMT -6
Example: when I looked at my old converters noise floor in loop mode versus my new, the difference was about 12dB average, but for single frequencies (power line harmonics) the difference could be 35dB, no single frequency higher than -113dBFS, with 4kHz noise (nice ear sensitive region) being -130dBFS and -142dBFS respectively. With the lower noise floor, while tracking I more clearly hear the residual noise floor of any input source, whereas the higher noise floor is enough to make for a vague generalized noise floor in which it's almost impossible to distinguish any individual sources contribution. One reveals distinct qualities, the other no discernible qualities. Sure, these are converters, so there's more going on, but it's as apples to apples as possible in that regard, sampling rate and bit depth. I could pass the same program audio through both units DA back to AD, and the result would effectively null on most test equipment (resolution), and certainly to the ear (damn that's quiet). They would sound a bit different to the ear. I get what you're saying about noise masking and that's certainly relevant but I'm just curious about the balanced cable thing. If two cables pass audio and that audio nulls in the DAW, are you saying that noise floor differences undetectable by the DAW and below the entire scale of the DAW meters are going to be audible? And are you of the opinion that that kind of difference is what people mean when they say expensive brand X sounds better? What you have to remember is that the noise that you can't quite hear or notice in a null test, is Summing with your waveform and can affect that wave form as nonlinear distortion that you hear when in use.
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Post by ragan on May 25, 2016 13:37:37 GMT -6
I get what you're saying about noise masking and that's certainly relevant but I'm just curious about the balanced cable thing. If two cables pass audio and that audio nulls in the DAW, are you saying that noise floor differences undetectable by the DAW and below the entire scale of the DAW meters are going to be audible? And are you of the opinion that that kind of difference is what people mean when they say expensive brand X sounds better? What you have to remember is that the noise that you can't quite hear or notice in a null test, is Summing with your waveform and can affect that wave form as nonlinear distortion that you hear when in use. I don't understand this. We're talking about a noise floor lower than -110 right?
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2016 14:08:23 GMT -6
There are some plugs that I can't distinguish from the hardware. I use those. I love the convenience of it. Use what makes you happy. Just curious, honest question, what plugs do you think are that close ? UAD EMT 140 EMT 250 1176 Collection (best available IMO) AKG BX20 Lexicon 224 Pultec collection Roland Space Echo Manley Vari Mu (close enough to not spend $3000 on taking off -1db on the mids on the 2 bus) 1073 EQ I know I'm forgetting some. All the Goodhertz plugs All the Fabfilter plugs There are a ton.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 25, 2016 14:08:23 GMT -6
Yes but it's still there and it shapes the waveform at a micro detail level & unlike Dither it is not predictable, really noticible on decay.
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Post by ragan on May 25, 2016 14:44:37 GMT -6
Yes but it's still there and it shapes the waveform at a micro detail level & unlike Dither it is not predictable, really noticible on decay. I guess what I'm saying is that I can comprehend that scientifically speaking, but if it's something that's affecting the audible sonics of a waveform, then it wouldn't in fact null, would it? When I flip that polarity switch and get total silence and nothing on the meters, what are you saying is left? Also, I don't think any of this stuff is what people are talking about when they genuinely say "this cable sounds so much better than that cheap one". People talk about punchy low end, open highs, smooth mids...none of that is referring to noise activity at -120 I don't think.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2016 15:18:23 GMT -6
Just saw a pair of 1081's for sale for $10,000. That's just ignorant. And you are ignorant of you pay that much.
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Post by sozocaps on May 25, 2016 15:32:12 GMT -6
Just curious, honest question, what plugs do you think are that close ? UAD EMT 140 EMT 250 1176 Collection (best available IMO) AKG BX20 Lexicon 224 Pultec collection Roland Space Echo Manley Vari Mu (close enough to not spend $3000 on taking off -1db on the mids on the 2 bus) 1073 EQ I know I'm forgetting some. All the Goodhertz plugs All the Fabfilter plugs There are a ton. I have not owned the UAD I guess I really need to because none of my plugs make me excited. My bud keeps telling me I need to... I use some plugs in the mix but not for creating sounds. For example I can not get a bass sound through an 1176 plug at all that I own... (waves slate) They are flat and lifeless to me. Need to check some new ones out I guess... The Slate is a sloppy mess IMHO too...
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2016 16:21:33 GMT -6
I didn't care for the Slate 1176 either...
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Post by sozocaps on May 25, 2016 16:24:30 GMT -6
I didn't care for the Slate 1176 either... Hew... good then it's not just me LOL. I only own Waves and Slate and Lexicon currently.... I actually could mix just using the Cubase built in eq's comp's and Lex plugs and do a great job actually LOL. I just like tracking through hardware getting the production going in.
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Post by Ward on May 25, 2016 16:58:54 GMT -6
I didn't care for the Slate 1176 either... YET, the lowly Bombfactory BF76 on acoustic guitar is.... the bomb.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 17:06:14 GMT -6
Just throwing in the classical snake oil: Ennemoser's C37 laquer
About cable direction: I have read that electrons have eyes on the back of their head. So they really really don't care about cable direction... And: If you can't hear it, see it, touch it, smell it, measure it - this really does not mean, that it is not there. But it means that it is totally meaningless in terms of practical usage...
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Post by rowmat on May 25, 2016 18:18:56 GMT -6
Directional cables imply they affect the flow of positive electrons differently to negative electrons. Could it be these cables contain diodes to block negative electrons and just let the positive electrons pass? We all know positive electrons are far more sonically pleasing than those nasty, horrible negative electrons don't we!
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Post by EmRR on May 25, 2016 18:57:27 GMT -6
What you have to remember is that the noise that you can't quite hear or notice in a null test, is Summing with your waveform and can affect that wave form as nonlinear distortion that you hear when in use. I don't understand this. We're talking about a noise floor lower than -110 right? Yes, and dither is much further down. Some types make obvious differences. Those differences may be relatively small, but more obvious on high resolution playback.
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Post by indiehouse on May 25, 2016 19:23:36 GMT -6
Just curious, honest question, what plugs do you think are that close ? UAD EMT 140 EMT 250 1176 Collection (best available IMO) AKG BX20 Lexicon 224 Pultec collection Roland Space Echo Manley Vari Mu (close enough to not spend $3000 on taking off -1db on the mids on the 2 bus) 1073 EQ I know I'm forgetting some. All the Goodhertz plugs All the Fabfilter plugs There are a ton. What's up with the Goodhertz stuff? Don't know much about it.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 25, 2016 19:52:30 GMT -6
UAD EMT 140 EMT 250 1176 Collection (best available IMO) AKG BX20 Lexicon 224 Pultec collection Roland Space Echo Manley Vari Mu (close enough to not spend $3000 on taking off -1db on the mids on the 2 bus) 1073 EQ I know I'm forgetting some. All the Goodhertz plugs All the Fabfilter plugs There are a ton. What's up with the Goodhertz stuff? Don't know much about it. Search goodhertz here on RGO. I've used the Trem plug, panpot, mid side, faraday, vulf on a ton of stuff. Incredible psychoacoustic phase/midside creativity available.
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Post by tasteliketape on May 25, 2016 20:25:56 GMT -6
I'm demoing the Faraday and I'm thinking my next plugin purchase it seems to have a nice color to it
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Post by donr on May 25, 2016 22:32:21 GMT -6
I didn't care for the Slate 1176 either... Have you tried the bluestripe Slate? I'm not that familiar with all the variants of 1176's (mostly the black ones) but the new bluestipe Slate plug works. Sort of like I don't use the legacy UAD 1176 anymore, just the improved versions. The Virtual mix rack works too. The Neve and SSL eq's and VCC all in one are easy to work with and sound good. +1 on the Bombfactory 1176, I used it native before it was only ProTools. It had a style.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 26, 2016 6:31:50 GMT -6
Haven't tried the Bluestripe yet. I do use VCC on every mix and really like it. Where I hear the big differences in the Slate 76 and the UAD is in the non-linearities - the dirtiness - in the Slate 1176. You can really hear that in the UAD. Crank up the input on the UAD - say on a snare - and it distorts very similarly to the real thing. I can't get the Slate to do that. Then listen to the differences in the Attack and Release. You can go from boing to smack with the release on the UAD...The Slate doesn't seem to have the same control.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 7:13:24 GMT -6
"positive electrons" Wow, that's a good one.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 26, 2016 8:20:07 GMT -6
I almost hate to say it, but Waves CLA 1176's are a good substitute if you don't have UAD's or are out of UAD DSP. His bass and acoustic guitar presets work nicely.
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Post by svart on May 26, 2016 9:54:07 GMT -6
Directional cables imply they affect the flow of positive electrons differently to negative electrons. Could it be these cables contain diodes to block negative electrons and just let the positive electrons pass? We all know positive electrons are far more sonically pleasing than those nasty, horrible negative electrons don't we! Uhm.. The internet doesn't convey sarcasm well, so I have to ask.. Sarcasm? "Positive electrons" are called Positrons. They are only created by radioactive decay and high energy photons (AKA: Gamma rays) hitting various materials. Anyway, that's not going to happen in a cable. Diodes create a directional current, which in the case of a sine wave (which has both positive-going and negative-going currents, would rectify the waveform into only positive or negative halves. The result is extreme second-order distortion. The sound equivalent would sound like a ring modulator and distortion pedal combined. So as I mentioned before, there is NO such thing as directional cable.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 26, 2016 10:32:55 GMT -6
Directional cables imply they affect the flow of positive electrons differently to negative electrons. Could it be these cables contain diodes to block negative electrons and just let the positive electrons pass? We all know positive electrons are far more sonically pleasing than those nasty, horrible negative electrons don't we! Uhm.. The internet doesn't convey sarcasm well, so I have to ask.. Sarcasm? "Positive electrons" are called Positrons. They are only created by radioactive decay and high energy photons (AKA: Gamma rays) hitting various materials. Anyway, that's not going to happen in a cable. Diodes create a directional current, which in the case of a sine wave (which has both positive-going and negative-going currents, would rectify the waveform into only positive or negative halves. The result is extreme second-order distortion. The sound equivalent would sound like a ring modulator and distortion pedal combined. So as I mentioned before, there is NO such thing as directional cable. But Arrows loo so kewl on cables !
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