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Post by henge on Nov 20, 2014 22:27:05 GMT -6
Been using VMR on everything and I'm getting to where I want to go faster.Haven't compared directly to my WA76 but I'm liking what I'm hearing so who cares!!;=)
Also enjoying the interactivity of the modules. Depending on what's feeding what the tone can really change. Very powerful sound shaper imo.
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 20, 2014 22:46:38 GMT -6
Damn, I hate you guys! You're gonna empty my wallet!
This does sound like a cool addition to the arsenal and it largely covers ground that I don't have comparablies for. So ....
Damn you guys!
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 0:33:19 GMT -6
1. No HP/LP filters
2. No phase
3. No output trim or automatically gain staged modules
4. No VCC
5. No VTM
6. No Preamp Emu's
7. No distressor
8. No Transient Designer
9. No Gate from Trigger 2
10. No Trigger module
To me VMR is a far from complete product. It really feels like he should have taken another year and truly finished it. Not to say these aren't in development but without these features I'm still going to using a lot of other plugins in my work.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 6:28:20 GMT -6
1. No HP/LP filters 2. No phase 3. No output trim or automatically gain staged modules 4. No VCC 5. No VTM 6. No Preamp Emu's 7. No distressor 8. No Transient Designer 9. No Gate from Trigger 2 10. No Trigger module To me VMR is a far from complete product. It really feels like he should have taken another year and truly finished it. Not to say these aren't in development but without these features I'm still going to using a lot of other plugins in my work. I think he totally rushed the release to get it out before black Friday (which is probably the biggest revenue generator for them). His workflow is trying to force you to stay in his rack, but he doesn't have all the essentials to do that, so it's just not right. Also, with the delay of everything they do, who knows when these things will come. 2 years from now? I'm sure that getting his virtual mic released will take the lead now and these fixes/additions will be moved to the back burner. If you're purchasing now, you have to be happy with the rack as is and not expect changes. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 7:10:44 GMT -6
If you're purchasing now, you have to be happy with the rack as is and not expect changes. Not necessarily. He mentioned the immediate changes to come and he will follow through. He has a history of filling promises, even if slow. Virtual mic is already out. |
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Post by LesC on Nov 21, 2014 7:27:00 GMT -6
I don't think even Slate himself ever tried to suggest that his plugins are the only ones that will be required. If he waited another year and incorporated everything in that list, it would be easy to create another list at that point of all the missing plugins.
It's really very simple, if you don't think it's worth the money now (less than the cost of a single UAD plugin) with it's current features, then don't buy it. Wait that year, see if everything you want is in it (it won't be), and make your decision then.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 8:58:33 GMT -6
If you're purchasing now, you have to be happy with the rack as is and not expect changes. Not necessarily. He mentioned the immediate changes to come and he will follow through. He has a history of filling promises, even if slow. Virtual mic is already out. Sorry, poorly worded above. I should have said "not expect immediate changes." If you're buying, buy for what it is now and not for the changes that you're hoping are implemented. Remember, AAX64 VCC is due for release in February 2014. VMS isn't out yet. Not shipping and no true ship date yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 9:00:41 GMT -6
VMS isn't out yet. Not shipping and no true ship date yet. oops, my bad there. I see it in the sweetwater catalog |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 9:05:37 GMT -6
I don't think even Slate himself ever tried to suggest that his plugins are the only ones that will be required. I think he is suggesting that. Releasing the plugins only in his rack and not as individual plugins pushes people to stay in his rack, using his plugs. He keeps marketing his rack as a huge workflow improvement. It's only an improvement if you stay with only plugs in his rack. Seeing my inserts labeled: Trim EQ1 VMR Pro-Q VMR MAAG ...for example, isn't a workflow improvement. Sure, staying inside his rack with all of the plugs would improve workflow, but using plugs outside his rack, in addition to his rack, doesn't improve anything. Just my opinion though. Anyway, like I said before, I'm probably going to end up buying it. I'm happy enough with the products that he puts out. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 21, 2014 9:11:32 GMT -6
VMS isn't out yet. Not shipping and no true ship date yet. oops, my bad there. I see it in the sweetwater catalog I was checking it out there too. Interesting that it doesn't tell you what mics/pres the system will even come with. I wonder how many/what models the massive collection includes. Sounds pretty killer, but probably too good to be true. Who knows though. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 9:26:24 GMT -6
Now you made me laugh - "massive collection". I never caught that, previous. I'm sure it will be.... absolutely... massive when it is released (wink).
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 21, 2014 9:31:20 GMT -6
Developing plug-ins for his rack probably saves a great deal of time over developing for each platform. He can't use an off the shelf framework like juice because some of his plugs need to talk to each other. With this he can release something new every few months and possibly even make some money. I'm sure this is what his partnership with Blackbird is all about.
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Post by LesC on Nov 21, 2014 9:59:02 GMT -6
I don't think even Slate himself ever tried to suggest that his plugins are the only ones that will be required. I think he is suggesting that. Releasing the plugins only in his rack and not as individual plugins pushes people to stay in his rack, using his plugs. He keeps marketing his rack as a huge workflow improvement. It's only an improvement if you stay with only plugs in his rack. Seeing my inserts labeled: Trim EQ1 VMR Pro-Q VMR MAAG ...for example, isn't a workflow improvement. Sure, staying inside his rack with all of the plugs would improve workflow, but using plugs outside his rack, in addition to his rack, doesn't improve anything. Just my opinion though. Anyway, like I said before, I'm probably going to end up buying it. I'm happy enough with the products that he puts out. I see what you mean, I agree 100%. Sorry, I was confusing your post with the usual anti-Slate crap that seems to derail so many Gearslutz threads. |
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Post by henge on Nov 21, 2014 11:49:27 GMT -6
Ok I'm not getting the " seeing the individual plugs on my channel" complaint. Lets say I have a High pass then VMR then a comp.If I want to tweak the high pass I click on it. If I want to change the something in VMR I click on VMR. Simple. Am I missing something, or maybe my workflow fits the VMR concept? Dunno...
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 13:16:25 GMT -6
I don't fault him for coming out with it. Hell, the guy can't win for losing...wait another year and people would say he's an asshole...come out with it now and people say he's an asshole. This is a great tool already - add all that other stuff and it's even better. All I know is that it would cost my around $600-$800 to get the same thing in UAD (I have bought them) and this costs $149. Kudos to him.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2014 13:17:04 GMT -6
Developing plug-ins for his rack probably saves a great deal of time over developing for each platform. He can't use an off the shelf framework like juice because some of his plugs need to talk to each other. With this he can release something new every few months and possibly even make some money. I'm sure this is what his partnership with Blackbird is all about. I heard his partnership with BB was about the mic locker for the VMS |
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 21, 2014 13:47:24 GMT -6
Developing plug-ins for his rack probably saves a great deal of time over developing for each platform. He can't use an off the shelf framework like juice because some of his plugs need to talk to each other. With this he can release something new every few months and possibly even make some money. I'm sure this is what his partnership with Blackbird is all about. I heard his partnership with BB was about the mic locker for the VMS This is true. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 22, 2014 10:50:59 GMT -6
It is very hard to compete with the marketing of these plugin companies. They are pursuading people that for $140.00 they can have the same sound as hardware that would cost $5K. So, if you have the hardware and own a studio what would be unthinkable in any other industry- persuading a customer that your $5k investment is better than your competitors $149.00 investment- becomes problematic and a hassle that no other industry has to go through.
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Post by WKG on Nov 22, 2014 12:11:33 GMT -6
As much as I'd like to be able to compare VMR to my SSL/Neve consoles, my reality is rather limited by a more humble budget... 
Has any body compared these to the IK British Channel and Neve emulations? I did some AB'ing and can get them pretty close and either would work well but there is something about the IK's that I can't quite put a finger on. Both are very good though. |
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Post by popmann on Nov 22, 2014 12:53:31 GMT -6
I played with it last night. Not impressive. The Revival was a nice coloring tool. The compressors and EQ didn't impress. But, since I think SSL EQ and 1176s sound pretty bad usually....maybe score one for accurracy! I didn't bother to read what the two modes on the VCA were but the second sounded best on everything....transformer model needed to be in to sound good, which doesn't say much about the actual compressor. Whatever mode 1 is modelled after simply wasn't smooth enough for anything.
But, the above being wholly subjective....this is NOT--and it's why I would never consider buying....no "master" output gain. So, effectively no way to not raise the peak. Global bypass is always quieter. Means--I can't tell if it's improved, thus I wouldn't use the tool. This is something easy to implement, and should be for the paradigm of "one UI for all channel processing". It gives you a way to drive the EQ circuits--but, not a way to pull the output down so that you can hear what it's doing and not just making it louder. I do "get" that's the function of the "drive" mode button, but it doesn't actually match particularly well....it would be much easier and stright forward to simply have input and output controls.
IK did that....and T-Racks has a single UI for a chain, too. I think that's a more flexible solution at this point--bigger selection of DSP, single UI, mixed mode chaining (one M/S unit into stereo for the next), IO drive/attenuation controls, output master volume control....I'm a fan of Slate's initial offerings. Problem is--they were unique tools in the case of FXG and VCC....and accurate emulation of the tape machines/formulations I grew up with(VTM) for better or worse, but there's nothing unique here, so it has to be judged as a tool next to the other tools already available.
Revival is neat, though. I will likely spend a little time with it to wrap my ear around what it's doing....
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 22, 2014 13:24:34 GMT -6
I think the grab on the 1176 is good. But there's something squirrel-ish about the release and ratios on this thing. The release doesn't seem to do much from about 7 o'clock to 3-4 o'clockish...Then it's massive changes in a short distance from about 4-5...Weird.
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Post by wiz on Nov 22, 2014 14:17:35 GMT -6
I played with it.
It can sound cool.
Its a pain in the butt to use. I like to level match EACH plug in within the chain i have.
Possibly If I had a RAVEN in front of me it would be a different story... dunno.
I am kind of sick of plugins trying to look like things, rather than being designed for my to interact with, with my trackball, mouse pad or whatever..I a spending so much time on a lot of these things, trying to finely
mouse about, or process things with my brain that I shouldn't have to, so much stuff that takes away from the creative.
Honestly, the whole ergonomics and visual input side of things within the daw world needs a giant foot up the butt.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 22, 2014 15:42:22 GMT -6
Wiz said, "I am kind of sick of plugins trying to look like things, rather than being designed for my to interact with, with my trackball, mouse pad or whatever..I a spending so much time on a lot of these things, trying to finely
mouse about, or process things with my brain that I shouldn't have to, so much stuff that takes away from the creative. Honestly, the whole ergonomics and visual input side of things within the daw world needs a giant foot up the butt".
I knew I couldn't be the only one who thought making plugs of API EQ's work like the real board was nutty. Trying to click those chicken head knobs is absolutely maddening.
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Post by popmann on Nov 22, 2014 16:40:58 GMT -6
I feel like now....the market is for complete toolset from one company. Likely due to some back end licensing deal they're all competing for.....ie, like right now on the iPad, it's FabFilter and PSP--that's IT....and those two don't compete, because one is vintage saturatey type things and the other are slick modern digital designs. At some point, Yamaha (Steinberg) might just decide to buy Waves--include it and make them exclusive to Cubase. Or maybe UA buy ProTools out from under Avid and makes their Apollo/UAD systems the DSP from ProTools--and exclusive TO....no more VST and AU....Apple buys Apogee and IK to make a complete solution with Logic....
You know what I'm saying? That they're all treading the same ground for a greater pay day down the road for having the best complete set of tools. Like their all positioning themselves for completeness.
I mean, while I'm always open to being stunned by a plug in's greatness....but, I bought my software tools--it now has to be better OR novel. And I auditioned a whole bunch to pick my toolset when I moved to software with the goal of retiring as much hardware as possible. So, I'm not his market....I wouldn't think. I mean, Revival aside, what's novel here? Except for the 76, this is still vintage console stuff--maybe Slate's angle is that he's wanting to start making the Raven the DAW itself....if he's got a solid console--add aux IO to hook up FX and the "Slate Digital Console" is ready to go.
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Post by popmann on Nov 24, 2014 21:18:03 GMT -6
Points for VERY smooth VST3 implantation. Means I can turn the knobs with my "AI knob" (big hardware knob)...the implementation hasn't been as good on his older plugs. This is smooth as buttah.
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