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Post by watchtower on Apr 1, 2015 10:53:19 GMT -6
Hey Tony, do you know where Max specifies that the MK-U47 tranny is different from the original MK47?
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 1, 2015 11:23:17 GMT -6
I thought it was the opposite that max's tranny is a very accurate replica ?
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 11:44:58 GMT -6
Shannon's always got 3 or 4 of blackbird's U47's (for repair) at his place. Maybe we can shoot a few out. or we could just ask @sinsay to express what ever qualitative differences he hears between JK's and the bulk of original 47's he's had in his hands? He could post right here on this thread? I mean, he has so much experience, and he almost certainly hears details that none of us hear, let alone pick out as even existing? Think about when you first started trying to listen critically and inside of a piece of gear, unless you're VERY unique, you didn't know what to listen for, and down the road you made little discoveries that gained you know how through those experiences. I've only become decent at this in the last 5 years or so honestly, and i have far to go! Shannon is unique in his perspective, his vast experience puts him in a totally different league, he could probably save us from a bunch of speculation and hyperbole with a couple posts... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 11:47:25 GMT -6
Hey Tony, do you know where Max specifies that the MK-U47 tranny is different from the original MK47? you'd have to dig for it, i'm all but positive the MK is 2 chamber, and the MKU is 4 chamber. Here's what I guarantee, these 2 guys right here know without a doubt! maybe one a tad bit more than the other 8) It'd be interesting to hear from Max what he though made the big diffs while going through the designing of what i believe to be the best U47 clone ever made. I believe Johnkenn owned a Wunder, maybe he can also speak to the diffs.. ioaudio category5 |
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Post by watchtower on Apr 1, 2015 13:51:05 GMT -6
I thought it was the opposite that max's tranny is a very accurate replica ? It is. But Tony indicated the MK-U47 BV8 was different from the previous MK47 BV8, and I never saw anything about that, so I was wondering where he heard that. The ioaudio BV8 was always purported as historically accurate, so it would be odd if the previous MK47 edition was not 4 chamber. Only Max/ioaudio can answer. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 15:46:24 GMT -6
I thought it was the opposite that max's tranny is a very accurate replica ? It is. But Tony indicated the MK-U47 BV8 was different from the previous MK47 BV8, and I never saw anything about that, so I was wondering where he heard that. The ioaudio BV8 was always purported as historically accurate, so it would be odd if the previous MK47 edition was not 4 chamber. Only Max/ioaudio can answer. Here ya go, it's still a little vague, it might have to do with fitment?   |
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Post by watchtower on Apr 1, 2015 16:18:17 GMT -6
It is. But Tony indicated the MK-U47 BV8 was different from the previous MK47 BV8, and I never saw anything about that, so I was wondering where he heard that. The ioaudio BV8 was always purported as historically accurate, so it would be odd if the previous MK47 edition was not 4 chamber. Only Max/ioaudio can answer. Here ya go, it's still a little vague, it might have to do with fitment? Gotcha. Well, it clearly says it's 4 chamber, but I don't see anything indicating that it was changed/updated for the MK-U47 introduction. Maybe Max will chime in soon. Actually, the only real answer is to steal JK's MK-U47 back and swap the tranny with yours haha |
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 16:53:45 GMT -6
Here ya go, it's still a little vague, it might have to do with fitment? Gotcha. Well, it clearly says it's 4 chamber, but I don't see anything indicating that it was changed/updated for the MK-U47 introduction. Maybe Max will chime in soon. Actually, the only real answer is to steal JK's MK-U47 back and swap the tranny with yours haha ? the first pic(mk U47) says 8 separate sections, the second pic(mk47) says 4 separate.. you're right, you distract him and i'll grab the mic, but then we'll be fighting over it?.... always something... 8) |
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Post by category5 on Apr 1, 2015 17:26:25 GMT -6
Gotcha. Well, it clearly says it's 4 chamber, but I don't see anything indicating that it was changed/updated for the MK-U47 introduction. Maybe Max will chime in soon. Actually, the only real answer is to steal JK's MK-U47 back and swap the tranny with yours haha ? the first pic(mk U47) says 8 separate sections, the second pic(mk47) says 4 separate.. you're right, you distract him and i'll grab the mic, but then we'll be fighting over it?.... always something... 8) It's 8 separate sections, but 4 "per bobbin". Before I ever heard the smaller transformer this was Max's impression of the difference "The big Bv.08 is extended in freq resp and takes higher level before clipping, but the smaller one is very nice as well" We obviously hear differences between the MK and MKU, but to know what differences the transformer is responsible for we have to really install the smaller one in the MKU and compare, or the larger in the MK and compare. Remember, we have a different headbasket and different capsbetween these two as well. FWIW, when i built my MK47 (after doing a few MKUs already) I was damn surprised at how good it sounded, and kind of like the fact that it's such a great sounding mic in such a small, unassuming package (GT2B body). With an improved headbasket the GT2B and MK47 format would probably still be one of the best mics most people have ever heard. It can also be built into the Chinese U47 style body which does have enough room for the larger BV08 Max winds, and you can always use whatever PIO caps you can source so for guys that want to "mod" their DIY there are a lot of options for the "lesser' version too. It's a fun little mic to make and really offers a lot. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 1, 2015 20:23:36 GMT -6
hmm ,, Tony, if we take out " speculation and hyperbole " our threads would be way thinner  Has the mailman rung twice yet ? |
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Post by kidvybes on Apr 1, 2015 20:40:15 GMT -6
BTW, anybody see what Telefunken posted on Facebook today as their new product?...clearly an "April Fool's" joke, but quit a few people were ready to go with it (a U47 "Leather-Bound" Edition)...funny: (I think they ought to consider a Limited-Edition Vintage "Distressed 47"...works well for Gibson)  Attachments:
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 1, 2015 21:09:26 GMT -6
Funny, my Sonus Faber stereo speakers are covered in Italian leather, and they sound incredible. Maybe Telefunken should give it a try!
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 21:16:16 GMT -6
joke? then i must be a friggin clown, because thats the coolest looking U47 I've ever seen... bar none!  Yes, i know, i am indeed a clown 8) |
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Post by kidvybes on Apr 1, 2015 21:39:52 GMT -6
joke? then i must be a friggin clown, because thats the coolest looking U47 I've ever seen... bar none! Yes, i know, i am indeed a clown 8) Also available in "buckskin": Attachments:
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2015 21:45:25 GMT -6
joke? then i must be a friggin clown, because thats the coolest looking U47 I've ever seen... bar none! Yes, i know, i am indeed a clown 8) Also available in "buckskin": Yuck it up Lionface! (says the cartoon cricket)lol, My MKU47 is on it's way, and good guys wear Black!!! I think i'll employ the tele badge also... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 2, 2015 10:56:51 GMT -6
I dig the tele badge.
Let me see if I have this correctly, Neumann's U47 originally had an M7 capsule, then switched to the polyester diaphragm K47, because of PVC not wearing well. The "Blueline" capsule made by Thiersch is an M7 with Blue being the original PVC style, and Red being the later polyester, correct?
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Post by category5 on Apr 2, 2015 11:05:28 GMT -6
I dig the tele badge. Let me see if I have this correctly, Neumann's U47 originally had an M7 capsule, then switched to the polyester diaphragm K47, because of PVC not wearing well. The "Blueline" capsule made by Thiersch is an M7 with Blue being the original PVC style, and Red being the later polyester, correct? Correct, although the PVC M7 used 12 micron material and the Thiersch Blueline uses 6 micron. The Red is a superb sounding capsule as well. As good as the Blueline but different (slightly) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 12:53:05 GMT -6
Funny, my Sonus Faber stereo speakers are covered in Italian leather, and they sound incredible. Maybe Telefunken should give it a try! Hehe, the Sonus Faber speakers i heard really sound excellent. But i really doubt, the leather is part of this. Nevertheless - it looks and feels good!  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 2, 2015 12:57:57 GMT -6
It wouldn't have mattered much if it was in a cheap box, but I do get some pride of ownership with the Sonus Faber speakers. Mine are called The Toys". They're quite small, but pack a wollop, and I supplement them with a small, bottom of the line REL subwoofer. REL's use skinny speaker wire that piggybacks onto your main speaker outs, so they fire simultaneously and have none of that weird subwoofer Boom Boom spearation sound.
I hope Max will continue to make these.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 15:16:04 GMT -6
Just to clarify, AFAIK, PVC M7 was the first, and was handled as the the mojo capsule later. AFAIK PVC membrane is harder to handle in the process of membrane production and skinning (tuning, gluing) and the production brought less capsules thru the QC than the later mylar/polyester capsules. So Neumann switched to K47. 1958 or so. Neumann once said 1960, but there seem to exist K47 from earlier dates.
Since the M7 has the membrane glued on, there is exactly ONE chance to do it right, it is hit or miss. You can't really fix anything later. If the membrane is not perfectly centered, tuned, glued, and wrinkle free, that's it. New membrane and new try (re-skinning). And this for both sides. That also shall match as perfect as can be!
Pretty hard task.
This said, there are M7's out there that have been reskinned with mylar/polyester diaphragm. How will you know if you buy second hand....
That's why Siegfried Thiersch does his blue/red color code.
Aftermarket capsules mostly are mylar/polyester or other modern plastic films.
AFAIK only Gefell and Thiersch do PVC M7's still, but you can't buy an M7 from Gefell for your homebrew, without giving them the original capsule / mic, AFAIK.
As far as i remember, Thiersch for a while had an agreement to only reskin original Neumann or Gefell capsules, and didn't sell capsules except in exchange for a damaged original.
Dale Ulan shared alot of his findings including the obstacles when he dived into the whole production process of M7's, when he made his first capsules. It may be found at groupdiy forum archives. Pretty fascinating stuff.
He even made his capsule different, without the "ring", to make them clearly distinguishable from the originals, so nobody could sell them as originals to rip off anyone...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 2, 2015 15:28:45 GMT -6
Great stuff smallbutfine.
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Post by kidvybes on Apr 2, 2015 15:33:08 GMT -6
Just to clarify, AFAIK, PVC M7 was the first, and was handled as the the mojo capsule later. AFAIK PVC membrane is harder to handle in the process of membrane production and skinning (tuning, gluing) and the production brought less capsules thru the QC than the later mylar/polyester capsules. So Neumann switched to K47. 1958 or so. Neumann once said 1960, but there seem to exist K47 from earlier dates. Since the M7 has the membrane glued on, there is exactly ONE chance to do it right, it is hit or miss. You can't really fix anything later. If the membrane is not perfectly centered, tuned, glued, and wrinkle free, that's it. New membrane and new try (re-skinning). And this for both sides. That also shall match as perfect as can be! Pretty hard task. This said, there are M7's out there that have been reskinned with mylar/polyester diaphragm. How will you know if you buy second hand.... That's why Siegfried Thiersch does his blue/red color code. Aftermarket capsules mostly are mylar/polyester or other modern plastic films. AFAIK only Gefell and Thiersch do PVC M7's still, but you can't buy an M7 from Gefell for your homebrew, without giving them the original capsule / mic, AFAIK. As far as i remember, Thiersch for a while had an agreement to only reskin original Neumann or Gefell capsules, and didn't sell capsules except in exchange for a damaged original. Dale Ulan shared alot of his findings including the obstacles when he dived into the whole production process of M7's, when he made his first capsules. It may be found at groupdiy forum archives. Pretty fascinating stuff. He even made his capsule different, without the "ring", to make them clearly distinguishable from the originals, so nobody could sell them as originals to rip off anyone... Soon, you'll be able to add Dany (Poctop) Bouchard's new D-7 capsule to the list...prototypes are close to ready for testing (top pic): groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=58663.0And, Eric Heiserman's HK12 hybrid K47...hole pattern is the same as the Neumann K47 but uses 2 back-plates like a 67 (bottom 2 pics)... Attachments:
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2015 15:43:36 GMT -6
Used my mic last night on a dude with a massive range...and it was just freaking awesome. Man, really awesome.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 2, 2015 16:25:00 GMT -6
Used my mic last night on a dude with a massive range...and it was just freaking awesome. Man, really awesome. does this mean your not going to let me buy it from you?  seriously though, thats awesome man, glad you're digging it! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 2, 2015 16:32:41 GMT -6
Used my mic last night on a dude with a massive range...and it was just freaking awesome. Man, really awesome. So glad to hear that John, congratulations !! |
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