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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 20, 2015 9:15:46 GMT -6
I don't think that's accurate John. My mic had a recognizable sound. I did quite a few tracks with it before upgrading to the Thiersch M7 capsule. It still sounds basically the same, but the jagged edges are gone. It's definitely a clear improvement, but the general tone was the same, just better all around. Obviously, we listen for nuance, and it's all important. So what might be a subtle difference to most people, is a a big difference to us.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2015 9:25:39 GMT -6
Not to argue, but the capsule definitely has the most to do with the sound. There could be a multitude of reasons your mic didn't sound much different - maybe the capsule that was in there sounded pretty good to start with...but I don't think this is a subjective thing...
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 20, 2015 10:24:39 GMT -6
I don't think that's accurate John. My mic had a recognizable sound. I did quite a few tracks with it before upgrading to the Thiersch M7 capsule. It still sounds basically the same, but the jagged edges are gone. It's definitely a clear improvement, but the general tone was the same, just better all around. Obviously, we listen for nuance, and it's all important. So what might be a subtle difference to most people, is a a big difference to us. mjb, there is a reason why sinsay is who he is, the capsules are HUGE to the sound, everything else is important, but combined don't reach the significance of the capsule alone. realgearonline.com/post/53110/thread
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 20, 2015 10:43:15 GMT -6
Here is the thing, excellent examples of all the great LDCs bring about the same sence of real ness , at the end of the day in the right circuit to the novice it's very subtle. The hard part is getting to that level. Sinsay Shannon (my best freind had his brothers KAT4 that it is my understanding he did the capsules for) works at bringing back that real ness and works in the area of tweaking that last 1% and is fucking great ! I have known klaus for years but at this point if a mic needs a spa day it will go to Shannon's magic fingers! Plus he has a great sence of humor !
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 20, 2015 11:15:13 GMT -6
I guess it means the original capsule in my mic wasn't too bad then, if after putting the Thiersch in, it sounded like the same mic, only improved a bit all around.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2015 11:29:08 GMT -6
I'm convinced more than ever that it's the capsule. I'm gonna buy a Bluebird at some point to see how close we can get it to sounding like a mic 10 times it's price. I heard a Rode NT1A that went out after Shannon put a cap in it and it was a monster.
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 20, 2015 11:40:17 GMT -6
it's not just the capsule, the capsule is the biggest part, but if you put half assed components in a relatively weak circuit(90% of the market) with a great capsule, you still get a mediocre mic IME. My Rode K2=not bad, installing a great capsule=much better, nos tube and serious component upgrades= much better again.
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Post by svart on Mar 20, 2015 11:58:31 GMT -6
I'd say that the capsule has the biggest effect on the quality of the acoustic-to-electric conversion.
The impedance converter (tube, transformer, etc) has the biggest effect on the tone of the overall signal as it interacts with the source(capsule) and the load(preamps, etc).
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 20, 2015 12:07:17 GMT -6
That's a good translation!
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Post by kidvybes on Mar 20, 2015 20:41:02 GMT -6
...in the case of Max's design here, I suspect the capsule, while certainly important, is not as much the "signature sound" of the MK-47/MK-U47 as the central circuit/tranny/tube configuration seems to be...originally mine had the microphone-parts RK47 capsule, yet it still bore a striking sonic resemblance to the Thiersch equipped examples posted in various threads...yesterday I had Shane (Cat5) swap out the Chinese capsule with one of Eric Heiserman's hybrid HK-47 designs, and while the mic is clearly smoother (less crisp), when comparing voice tracks made with the two different capsules, the difference is audible, but the "sound" of the mic remains strikingly similar...compared to swapping of capsules in some of my other tube mic, this design has a mojo of it's own...IMHO, the capsule is the icing on the MK-47/MK-U47 cake (circuit/tranny/tubes)...
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Post by category5 on Mar 22, 2015 9:49:11 GMT -6
While I hate to make generalizations like this, I'd say the Capsule will make the biggest difference "usually", but as MJB pointed out, sometimes that expectation can leave you wanting more. In his case it sounds like he was comparing two capsules that were already very similar. Even two copies of the Thiersch Blueline will have identifying variances, but ultimately provide the same general character and color. As for the circuit, remember some are much more linear than others. A plate follower like the C12 derives a lot of gain from the tube, and IME tone can change drastically based on what tube you have in there. As for transformers, you'd generally think that a 12:1 ratio small core transformer like the T14 would be much more influential than a large core low ratio transformer (BV08 is 6.5:1) but even that can be misleading. Core type, the actual gauge and density of the windings and how hard the circuit drives the transformer can all influence the linearity in circuit. At every stage in the circuit there is the potential for frequency deviation, harmonic distortion, and phase shift that all influence the overall character of the mic. IMO, it's important to start with a premium capsule based on the saying we're all to familiar with, "garbage in, garbage out" but it's almost impossible to simplify things beyond that point. I'll say this, both the C12 and U47 mics (that we've been bantering about so much here) derive a lot of their sound from the circuit (and especially the tube and transformer combination) so it wouldn't surprise me if after changing capsules the general overall character of the mic was somewhat preserved.
Also, remember that not every capsule is suited to every mic. The CK12 and K7/K47 types work well in linear circuits but the K67 requires de-emphasis to perform properly, a fact often overlooked in the dozens of inexpensive mics that bewilderingly make use of (sometimes very decent) copies of this capsule.
Listening, experimentation, and attention to detail will get you farther than generalizations will most times. If I had to generalize myself though, I'd say capsule first, then circuit, then tube/transformer weighted almost equally.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 23, 2015 15:01:10 GMT -6
Have people with rca gold been checking their b+ vdc and if so what are they finding ?
thx !
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 23, 2015 15:13:11 GMT -6
Have people with rca gold been checking their b+ vdc and if so what are they finding ? thx ! No matter what tubes you put in, you have to re adjust the B+ voltage via the trim pot to get you to 105vdc, then after they are broken in, you adjust it again 8)
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 23, 2015 15:58:09 GMT -6
Have people with rca gold been checking their b+ vdc and if so what are they finding ? thx ! No matter what tubes you put in, you have to re adjust the B+ voltage via the trim pot to get you to 105vdc, then after they are broken in, you adjust it again 8) gotcha !
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 24, 2015 19:43:05 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 24, 2015 19:57:23 GMT -6
thats very good, those tubes you picked up are solid/stable to go along with that sound, how you liking the mic toward the end of the honeymoon period?
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 24, 2015 20:05:23 GMT -6
I haven't used it on a main vocal yet...going to soon, though. I've done a couple of harms with it and it's SUPER natural - except with that beautiful midrange. I'm interested in putting it through the paces and seeing how it works in practical use. Most everything else has been singing clips and the like.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 25, 2015 8:15:00 GMT -6
Yeah baby, give us some tracks John!
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Post by ioaudio on Mar 30, 2015 9:01:30 GMT -6
Hi Everybody, now that the correct screws finally arrived, I'm completing the assembly of the new MK-U47 batch. Shipping starts tomorrow, and I'm now open for orders. I'll go through my list, but if you inquired about a kit in the past it doesn't hurt to send me another email. Kit/pricing and contact info: groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=35667.msg437839#msg437839A quick snapshot during assembly:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 9:19:29 GMT -6
Holy sh*t. An armada of upcoming 47s. I just need to win a lotto jackpot now. Hrmpf.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 30, 2015 21:39:10 GMT -6
Man. Another one WOULD be sweet.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 30, 2015 21:41:22 GMT -6
Whoa.
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 30, 2015 22:17:21 GMT -6
thats awesome! and one of those has my name on it! yaay! 8)
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 31, 2015 0:04:24 GMT -6
well there is an argument for a red and a blue !
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Post by watchtower on Mar 31, 2015 0:21:25 GMT -6
Man, I REALLY want one, but I REALLY can't justify yet another tube LDC
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