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Post by cserrano on Aug 3, 2021 13:51:44 GMT -6
Update: Greetings everyone! As of August 16, 2022. The Serrano 84 Microphone, an exquisite replica of the Neumann KM84, is now released! Below is a review from RealGear's very own seawell from Seawell Studios. Features: Assembled by hand in USA. Custom Made Exclusive Capsules: Capsules: Vintage (dark) Cardioid, Modern (presence) Cardioid, and Omnidirectional 100% Neumann KM84 Circuitry (without -10db pad) Custom Made BV-13 Transformer by Cinemag Specially Made 4pf Styroflex (Polystyrene) Capacitor at C2 |
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Post by Quint on Aug 3, 2021 14:23:52 GMT -6
FYI, the Neumann clip on SoundCloud isn't working.
Regardless, I'm excited to hear more about these. What will be the normal, non-preorder price for a pair?
PM and email sent.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 3, 2021 14:24:07 GMT -6
Nice.
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Post by enlav on Aug 3, 2021 14:36:29 GMT -6
Talk about timing...
I've taken this as a sign - email sent.
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Post by ragan on Aug 3, 2021 14:41:02 GMT -6
Both clips work for me. Congrats cserrano! I'm sorely tempted. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 3, 2021 15:30:35 GMT -6
Im in. Sounds nice. Will send a PM!
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Post by dmo on Aug 3, 2021 15:33:24 GMT -6
Same here - PM sent
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Post by cserrano on Aug 3, 2021 19:44:23 GMT -6
FYI, the Neumann clip on SoundCloud isn't working. Regardless, I'm excited to hear more about these. What will be the normal, non-preorder price for a pair? PM and email sent. Final pricing after pre-orders will be determined soon depending on accessories, etc. Probably somewhere between $800-$900. On that note, these pre-orders will come with protective pouch. I'm hoping to offer an optional high quality wooden case and all will have an opportunity to purchase this if desired. I'll provide more details on this in the future. |
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Post by Quint on Aug 3, 2021 20:29:30 GMT -6
FYI, the Neumann clip on SoundCloud isn't working. Regardless, I'm excited to hear more about these. What will be the normal, non-preorder price for a pair? PM and email sent. Final pricing after pre-orders will be determined soon depending on accessories, etc. Probably somewhere between $800-$900. On that note, these pre-orders will come with protective pouch. I'm hoping to offer an optional high quality wooden case and all will have an opportunity to purchase this if desired. I'll provide more details on this in the future. How much am I gonna miss having a pad? |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
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Post by ericn on Aug 3, 2021 20:50:32 GMT -6
Final pricing after pre-orders will be determined soon depending on accessories, etc. Probably somewhere between $800-$900. On that note, these pre-orders will come with protective pouch. I'm hoping to offer an optional high quality wooden case and all will have an opportunity to purchase this if desired. I'll provide more details on this in the future. How much am I gonna miss having a pad? If you miss it Shure makes a variable one in a barrel connector, but a fixed pad is an easy DIY. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 3, 2021 22:50:34 GMT -6
I am really excited about these. I couldn’t be happier with my Serrano 87, which sees a lot of use over here. I’m definitely in for the preorder on the 84s.
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Post by sirthought on Aug 3, 2021 23:14:45 GMT -6
PM sent
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Post by marylin on Aug 4, 2021 0:27:22 GMT -6
Hello, nice work. Congrats.
Pleas can you share with us some basic photos of capsule ansembly/skinnig process?
What is difference between your KM84 inspired microphone and DIY Banzai Km84?
Best
M.
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Post by gouge on Aug 4, 2021 3:14:55 GMT -6
Wondering if a km84 capsule will fit?
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Post by cserrano on Aug 4, 2021 9:01:38 GMT -6
Hello, nice work. Congrats. Pleas can you share with us some basic photos of capsule ansembly/skinnig process? What is difference between your KM84 inspired microphone and DIY Banzai Km84? Best M. Thank you, M. I should first say that the Banzai KM84s are great DIY projects and the Maiku capsules are fantastic! I've built several of them. What's the same about them is that both the DIY Banzai KM84 and the Serrano 84 follow 100% the schematic of the KM84, minus the -10dB pad. The most obvious difference is that you don't have to deal with the trouble of building the Serrano 84. To properly build the DIY KM84 one would need to source all the parts, have DIY equipment and have decent tools including a good resolution oscilloscope to bias the FET. But with that said, some other differences would be that the capsules are not the same, the bodies are not the same, and the PCB to XLR connection method is not that same. I suspect wiring the PCB directly to the XLR jack, like in the Serrano 84, significantly reduces RF interfering noise. Another difference is that the Serrano 84 has a unique replica transformer and one would have to choose their own in a DIY project. I have tried many transformers and although they were all well made and from good companies, they don't all sound right in a KM84, to my ears. The last difference worth mentioning is that the C2 capacitor in the Serrano 84 is made of polystyrene, just like in the Neumann KM84. Polystyrene should be used there because of it's special properties - there is a lot of information already online about this. All the BOMs I've seen for DIY KM84s source a ceramic capacitor for C2. I had this 4pf polystyrene capacitor specially made for the Serrano 84 and you won't find one at Mouser, DigiKey, or from any other electronic parts supplier. As far as the capsule process, I have tried many different diaphragms, backplates and grills - which all affect the sound. Among these parts, a number of them had to be designed from scratch, others could be sourced. I don't skin the diaphragms myself. As for a photo, I will just simply share pile of scrap SDC capsule parts. While this doesn't show you my specific process and guts, it can offer you a glimpse into the nature of the process. Attachments:
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Post by cserrano on Aug 4, 2021 9:03:11 GMT -6
Wondering if a km84 capsule will fit? No, the thread size of the capsule and diameter of the mic are different, as well as the connection hardware. |
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Post by Guitar on Aug 4, 2021 9:37:16 GMT -6
Wow! Sounds quite a bit different but I like how it sounds. Respectfully, I would get those mics away from that sound hole a bit in future clips. Very impressive!
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Post by cserrano on Aug 4, 2021 10:18:43 GMT -6
Respectfully, I would get those mics away from that sound hole a bit in future clips. Very impressive! Yes! I chose to record at the sound hole because it would capture the low end. I wanted to make sure the frequency spectrum could be represented well.  |
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Post by ragan on Aug 4, 2021 10:20:31 GMT -6
I think they sound pretty close. The KM84 is a bit tighter in the low end (the low end blooms more on the Serrano) and the mids at like 2k-5k are a little different. The Serrano sounds like a nice mic though. Congrats!
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Post by Omicron9 on Aug 4, 2021 11:19:34 GMT -6
@cseranno, sounds really good. I also enjoyed the song lyrics. A timeless tale of love lost, love found, and youth regained.
Very tempting.
-09
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Post by mcirish on Aug 4, 2021 14:43:53 GMT -6
Had I not just finished a couple DIY Banzai KM84 mics, I would definitely jump on this. I'm impressed with how @cseranno handles his business. Says what he will do and then does it in a timely fashion. Imagine that! I hope they fill the KM84 void. There are lots of great SDC options and the KM84 has a place near the top.
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Aug 4, 2021 15:32:39 GMT -6
As far as the capsule process, I have tried many different diaphragms, backplates and grills - which all affect the sound. Among these parts, a number of them had to be designed from scratch, others could be sourced. I don't skin the diaphragms myself. As for a photo, I will just simply share pile of scrap SDC capsule parts. While this doesn't show you my specific process and guts, it can offer you a glimpse into the nature of the process. Impressive! I note none of the backplates shown are "business end" up, so I don't know whether you've duplicated the Neumann "crosscut" design. (Though one of the backplates has the holes in the right places!) Since I'm interested in using these on strings the off-axis response (for which the KM84 is famous) is very important to me. |
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Post by Quint on Aug 4, 2021 16:08:56 GMT -6
Hello, nice work. Congrats. Pleas can you share with us some basic photos of capsule ansembly/skinnig process? What is difference between your KM84 inspired microphone and DIY Banzai Km84? Best M. Thank you, M. I should first say that the Banzai KM84s are great DIY projects and the Maiku capsules are fantastic! I've built several of them. What's the same about them is that both the DIY Banzai KM84 and the Serrano 84 follow 100% the schematic of the KM84, minus the -10dB pad. The most obvious difference is that you don't have to deal with the trouble of building the Serrano 84. To properly build the DIY KM84 one would need to source all the parts, have DIY equipment and have decent tools including a good resolution oscilloscope to bias the FET. But with that said, some other differences would be that the capsules are not the same, the bodies are not the same, and the PCB to XLR connection method is not that same. I suspect wiring the PCB directly to the XLR jack, like in the Serrano 84, significantly reduces RF interfering noise. Another difference is that the Serrano 84 has a unique replica transformer and one would have to choose their own in a DIY project. I have tried many transformers and although they were all well made and from good companies, they don't all sound right in a KM84, to my ears. The last difference worth mentioning is that the C2 capacitor in the Serrano 84 is made of polystyrene, just like in the Neumann KM84. Polystyrene should be used there because of it's special properties - there is a lot of information already online about this. All the BOMs I've seen for DIY KM84s source a ceramic capacitor for C2. I had this 4pf polystyrene capacitor specially made for the Serrano 84 and you won't find one at Mouser, DigiKey, or from any other electronic parts supplier. As far as the capsule process, I have tried many different diaphragms, backplates and grills - which all affect the sound. Among these parts, a number of them had to be designed from scratch, others could be sourced. I don't skin the diaphragms myself. As for a photo, I will just simply share pile of scrap SDC capsule parts. While this doesn't show you my specific process and guts, it can offer you a glimpse into the nature of the process. I'm no expert on km84 cap/backplate design, but I seem to have read somewhere (maybe in this thread) about concentric rings and how they affect the sound. From the pics you posted, I'm seeing concentric rings. Can you speak on to what degree this particular aspect of your cap and backplate design matches that of the KM84? |
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Post by Quint on Aug 4, 2021 16:12:47 GMT -6
How much am I gonna miss having a pad? If you miss it Shure makes a variable one in a barrel connector, but a fixed pad is an easy DIY. On a KM84, where in the circuit does the pad exist? If it's anywhere other than the very end of the circuit, it would seem that you may not get the same result using an inline pad like the Shure model you describe. |
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Post by mcirish on Aug 4, 2021 16:18:33 GMT -6
If you miss it Shure makes a variable one in a barrel connector, but a fixed pad is an easy DIY. On a KM84, where in the circuit does the pad exist? If it's anywhere other than the very end of the circuit, it would seem that you may not get the same result using an inline pad like the Shure model you describe. The pad circuit in the KM84 is created with a capacitor (C9) and the capsules capacitance to create the (voltage divider) negative feedback path to lower the signal. It would react very different than a simple pad on the output. In this circuit the signal feeding the FET is reduced. In a simple pad, the signal is only being reduced to the preamp. The mic still sees the full signal and will still clip. |
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