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Post by M57 on Nov 25, 2017 12:59:29 GMT -6
The so called "DR" figure is not that closely related to perceived loudness, and only used by online audiophiles to moan about modern mastering. Forget "DR" and stick to industry standard LUFS integrated for whole tracks. It's not a perfect correlation to perceived loudness, but much better than "DR". For anyone interested, here's the info on how DR is calculated from the Foobar2000 "Dynamic Range Meter" plugin's help file, as this information doesn't seem to be listed anywhere else: The EBU specs for LUFS and how it is calculated are already widely available. Thanks for this info. It's helpful to know how the DR meter works. I have to say, the DR calculations as you have described them seem somewhat arbitrarily constructed (e.g. the 3 second window), but I've been reading up a bit on it, and yes, as you say audiophiles use it as reference, but traditionally, so have engineers. If I may play devil's advocate, it still seems to me that DR was designed for and may still be a better reference for "perceived" loudness, while LUFS was designed to ensure that a mix passes through the broadcast chain as unfettered as possible. Now I will agree that for engineers the value of both in practice are not mutually exclusive, but I have to admit that LUFS doesn't correlate to what my ears hear nearly as much as DR does. Case in point. I just passed two mixes through Logic's adaptive limiter, pulling down the input gain 0.5 db on one of them. Now to my ears, that's a lot and the DR meter shows it to the tune of ~0.25, but the integrated LUFS number didn't budge. Honestly, I'm a bit baffled. I feel like I should go back and run it again to make sure.
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Post by M57 on Nov 25, 2017 11:09:33 GMT -6
So pretty up until now, I've been using the TT Dynamic Range Meter to check my "mastered" mixes (which go to SoundCloud). For continuity's sake, I've been trying to get in them in the 10 DR range, give or take 1 db, depending on the style, etc. Recently however, I've been looking at them using Logic's LUFS meter, and for the most part, with the more folk/rock oriented stuff, I've noticed that the "Integrated" LUFS reading comes out in the -11 to -12 range with LU (dynamic) ranges around 7 or 8. (compare that to 10 on the TTDR meter) But things don't always line up nice and pretty. For instance, I just remastered a more orchestrally oriented track to LUFS -12.5 that the TTDR meter pegged at 9db DR. I did notice that the Medium range part of the LUFS meter was hitting -9 during the loudest sections, but I'm not sure that isn't coincidence.
On the one hand, and for my purposes the numbers are somewhat meaningless. Ultimately I let my ear decide the balance of loudness to dynamic range, but on the other hand I do like to check the numbers - and now I'm wondering which numbers I should be looking at. My first impressions are that the TTDR's meters align better with my perceptions, but maybe that's because I've trained/calibrated my ears to that meter.
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Post by M57 on Nov 24, 2017 8:43:50 GMT -6
EastWest Black Friday sale: Actually through Nov. 30. ~25-30% off
Hollywood Orchestra - Diamond Edition $499
680GB of content (drive incl)
Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra - Platinum Complete Plus Edition $449
194GB of content - Platinum needs iLoc. (drive incl)
Hollywood Orchestra - Gold Edition
100GB (16 bit only) $329 (download)
I'm thinking about taking advantage of one of these. Thoughts?
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Post by M57 on Nov 18, 2017 18:25:27 GMT -6
Oo.. I'm a Logic kind of guy, but now I want bezier curve automation. Logic has had bezier curve automation since v7. They don't have that cool-ass grid-based selection system for automation tho, or the visuals of how automation is affected by the VCA faders tho. Although I bet if you set the grid snap to a value other than smart, I bet it would behave just like cubase's feature... Hmm.. Holy Bezier! It was there all the time. I love Logic! I'm having to hold down 'control' with the right click set to Automation because I haven't found which combination of keys to hold down in the standard editing mode.
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Post by M57 on Nov 18, 2017 10:25:04 GMT -6
Oo.. I'm a Logic kind of guy, but now I want bezier curve automation.
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Post by M57 on Nov 16, 2017 20:19:49 GMT -6
Notice the sheer amount of hops put in all this confusing american craft beer? And the heavy body? Because it's really easy to make an OK beer like that, it's really hard to make a proper crisp Pilsner with good taste and aftertaste, minimal ingredients. It's a bit similar to the conundrum at hand. As a hophead of 15 years or so, I’d say you might be right conceptually, but if you develop any kind of discerning palate, a mediocre beer is a mediocre beer, now matter how high the IBU is. There are so many bad IPAs out there. Also all the other kinds of beer. Hmm.. Beer clones - only 50% off topic. I've been a wannabe oenophile for the last 20 years so I'm a bit late to the IPA dating scene, so call it young love but damn, even the "mediocre" IPA's bring something worthy to the table for me. Granted, I'm not sampling much of the cheap stuff. Maybe I need to go there to get a base-line.
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Post by M57 on Nov 15, 2017 16:58:31 GMT -6
I sold my 60. That thing made some thick gooey verb sauce, but the noise floor was too high for my tastes. Also, as I recall it was mono in - stereo out.
EDIT: Hah, just read Drbill's.. We agree.
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Post by M57 on Nov 12, 2017 11:51:04 GMT -6
Did you do any adjustments of the level of the actual file in trying to get the dynamics right? I think Aria will read the RMS of a track and then that is what will raise the RMS to a certain point. I asked Colin if it set the track to a certain RMS level per setting and he'd told me it depended on the RMS level of the track when it came in. I'm recalling being told the opposite from Collin. I specifically asked if changing the peak RMS level of a submitted track would change the DR of the Aria output, and I recall being told that it doesn't make much difference. Now what I didn't ask him was, "What if I changed the DR of the submitted track?" I.e., what if I pre-compressed it a bit before submitting it. Regardless, I recall Collin suggesting that submitting (and paying for) multiple files adjusted on my end in an attempt to alter the Aria master was a waste of time. I should go back and look for those threads. I'm pretty sure they're here on RG.
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Post by M57 on Nov 12, 2017 8:17:33 GMT -6
I would suggest you try Aria and see how loud you want your mixes...... They have the option to choose from 4 different dynamic levels and yes, Colin uses extremely high dollar converters and analog gear over there. I use it for my mixes, when I'm done instead of me trying to create mastering ref's I just shoot all the songs over to them and let them give me back an extremely high quality ref file to go a long with the -6db peak to peak I give. I bill every client with that in there and they love it, some use the ref files for their projects, one on a label did this not long ago, I was totally surprised. I considered doing something similar with Aria.. Surprisingly, I ended up preferring my own mastering over Aria's, in part because I couldn't get Aria's Dynamic range in my sweet spot (four mix types just isn't enough) - but there were other reasons like EQ and the makeup of the compression/limiting cocktail. But if you're going to hire someone and you need to communicate how loud you want them to master your material, save some money and just throw a down and dirty limiter on the 2 and cook up a couple of mixes. Use a meter to see how things fall - I throw one on the 2 while bouncing plus I analyze the file off-line with a TT DR meter). Pick one and forward the info to your ME.
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Post by M57 on Nov 11, 2017 17:04:41 GMT -6
Hey Martin, you say you shut down, but did you shut down everything including your interface?
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Post by M57 on Nov 11, 2017 16:20:08 GMT -6
>>They lose an opportunity to show themselves as "different", "unique" and forward thinking -- vs -- only being able to copy someone elses designed and do it cheaper<< >>I respect those manufacturers who say "inspired by" and play up the differences, while tipping their hat in a general direction of the original<< I agree, but while a company may be muddying up their own waters in terms of establishing themselves as forward thinking, associating their products with a well-known "standard" (whether as a clone or as a hybrid) instantly lets their customer base know "generally speaking" what it is in one broad stroke. More and more the demographic for buyers of increasingly affordable gear are not engineers; they're musicians. Musicians who fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view find themselves in a position where they can afford to record themselves with some pretty high quality gear ..yet don't have the time or expertise to become knowledgeable about the differences between Carnhill and CineMag, or research where a capsule is sourced, etc. They think they want something 47ish, so three of the first five they research will have the number 47 in their name.
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Post by M57 on Nov 11, 2017 12:14:50 GMT -6
Can't wait to hear how they review.. Right in my price-point! ..though an external PS is not exactly what I'd call a 'feature.'
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Post by M57 on Nov 4, 2017 15:24:26 GMT -6
Yeah, come to think of it - I alway use AU.
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Post by M57 on Nov 4, 2017 13:16:25 GMT -6
I think popmann is right. Control Click on it for info.. Where it says "Open with" make sure it's set to "Archive Utility."
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Post by M57 on Oct 31, 2017 7:22:13 GMT -6
There is a drop down selection there for cleaning up stuff, which I have done but I don't know how extensive it actually is ? I am going top check out those features and see what they do. I've played with that here and there. Not sure how effective it is, though I'm talking more about saving different mixes.. I've got folders in folders in folders, which makes sense to me, but navigation is a pain.
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Post by M57 on Oct 31, 2017 6:44:48 GMT -6
What do Logic users do for file management, i.e., getting rid of old takes etc., to reduce the size of the session and remove extraneous things ? Good question, my Logic folders are admittedly a mess. I have to admit that I don't save what they call "alternate" versions partly cause I'm not sure how the files are managed between versions.
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Post by M57 on Oct 31, 2017 6:42:30 GMT -6
Its probably a setting on one or 47 of the 1,278 mixer/view/settings pages. Sorry, have I ever mentioned Logic confuses me? I own Logic X and think the synths and plugins sound fantastic. I wish I could use them in Studio One and PT. Joking aside, I sincerly hope you figure it out. Funny, I'm just the opposite.. PT confused me. I switched to Logic and it just makes sense. The one thing that I missed that came with PT was the Expand2 synth, which I think sounds fantastic. Just the other day I picked it up for FREE through dontcrack.com - Couldn't believe it!
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Post by M57 on Oct 29, 2017 5:13:58 GMT -6
It happens pretty rarely, but the only bug I have with Logic these days is drop-out related. It's usually about 500 milliseconds long and it tends to happen after I've moved or dragged take to a different track (or a copy of a track). I've checked things like mute automation (which is what it sounds like). Sometimes nudging it a few milliseconds left or right seems to fix it - sometimes adjusting the fade in or fade out works. Sometimes bouncing the mix off-line does the trick. Sometimes nothing seems to work and I end up re-recording. What's weird is once the problem happens on a project, it seems to happen in a couple places. I'm pretty sure it's not me but you never know with these things.
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Post by M57 on Oct 28, 2017 9:29:55 GMT -6
Sometime's you need to re-boot the program, sometimes your machine, sometimes your brain.
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Post by M57 on Oct 17, 2017 17:39:25 GMT -6
Can it change the size of the playing field by stretching and shrinking it both horizontally and vertically? that's one of the features I love about the X-touch.
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Post by M57 on Oct 15, 2017 4:51:28 GMT -6
So let me see if I have this straight. Native-Instruments IS Kontact, right? ..and they have their own VI strings product, but the Kontact engine is a shell for other 3rd party products - Like VSL. Contrast with EastWest, which has their own proprietary player.
It doesn't take much searching to find a bunch of players out there.
Albion (needs Kontact?) CineSymphony LASS 8Dio (Kontact) CinematicStudioSeries (Kontakt)
No doubt there are many more - I hope a few more people chime in.
I'm hesitant to try VSL Synchron because I'm worried that it may be too complicated because of the need for the Kontakt player. What's up with this Kontakt player? It seems to be somewhat of an industry standard, but it doesn't get a lot of love from some quarters.
I watched an EastWest video or two and it looks robust in terms of features and range and malleability of articulations, yet has a pretty accessible interface, but I'm reading that it's got some inconsistent programming issues where controllers are concerned. Probably not big deal, but I'm also thinking about whether or not I want a more cinematic sound - or a classical sound.. EW seems a bit over the top cinematic. Am I splitting hairs? Is it my imagination, or has the cost of a really good orchestral library system come down significantly in the last 5 or so years? All of these seem to be competing against each other in the $500-700 range. I was initially thinking I might only be in the market for strings, but at these prices, It seems like I might as well be looking for the whole shebang.
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Post by M57 on Oct 14, 2017 4:21:16 GMT -6
....it's funny--I got htat email this morning and tossed it like I do all their emails ... Hmmm....I hate spending money on this stuff. I really do....because unlike say new keyboard VIs, it's not gonna inspire me to sit and create. Play. Goof. Me too with the junk e-mails. I purchased one of their basic "Special Edition" bundles about 6 or 7 years ago and I think I used it a half dozen times. I have to admit that as a casual spotty user I found the interface to be non-intuitive, and I'm sure I never used it efficiently, so eventually I just gave up on it. I can't tell if this new product is any different. I just looked at a few videos on youtube and it seems that the Synchron stuff runs on (requires??) Kontact now. I'm curious to know if this is true. I'm not familiar with Kontact, but I've got to believe it's easier than VSL's interface. I really do need to improve on what I have. This is my most recent track; but for the piano, which is real, I used nothing but stock Logic symphonic instruments. I'm sick and tired of having to work real hard to hide their "virtualness," not to mention being confined by the range of articulations, etc. I know I need a good library.
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Post by M57 on Oct 13, 2017 16:48:18 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on Oct 10, 2017 4:45:06 GMT -6
I'm curious about why you automate while the compression is inserted and not automate first and then compress. I'm definitely not Dr. Bill but the reason is pretty obvious when you think about it for a minute - you don't want the comp responding to your fader/automation moves. I'm not disagreeing, but why then is it OK, if not standard practice to apply compression after clip gain? Answering my own question, I know that clip gain is more of a gross adjustment and brings all clips into the threshold range of the comp, but there is similar logic at play, right?
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Post by M57 on Oct 9, 2017 3:51:53 GMT -6
Where I have the most trouble is with booming bass notes. Some basses sound fine, but one or two notes just bloom and sustain too loud and too long. I use compressors on the bass track, Waves bass rider, and Logic automation, but it's difficult to fix boomy bass notes that shouldn't be there in the first place. I wish someone I knew had a few tricks I could borrow to fix that. I have the same problem despite DI going in and mixing on headphones. I know it's not the room because it's clearly there to see in the waveforms. Doesn't matter what bass I'm using. I seem to remember reading a similar thread about this. I blame it on the player ..me. I'm not a bass player by trade and I don't use a pick. There always seem to be one or two notes that just zing, and one or two that are wimpy. For some reason, and moreso than with other instruments, you can't necessarily rely on the waveform to make automation decisions. All that said, I seem to have the problem less and less, which makes sense. I attribute that to better playing over time.
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