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Post by ragan on Apr 3, 2019 13:20:56 GMT -6
And also brand prestige/pedigree. If a Neumann capsule sells for $100 less but it's Chinese, is that worth the change to the brand identity? I'd say no way. If it works the same, then why stick to brand/pedigree? Lot's of times it's either the subconscious connection between spending more and believing it'll bring better performance, or a subconscious desire for prestige/symbols of wealth. If it quacks like a duck and all that.. Yeah I just meant in the mind of the general consumer. For me, if it’s the same piece of equipment, functionally, I’d of course take the lower priced/more efficiently produced piece.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,967
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Post by ericn on Apr 3, 2019 13:28:18 GMT -6
But to me, the real question is if a Chinese manufacturer was given specs for a Neumann mic capsule, could they make it as good as Neumann at the same or a lower price point. I know they can. They use the same high tech machinery available to the rest of the world. The issue is cost. They absolutely have the technology and intelligence to do it.. but it'll end up costing almost as much on low volume products because you still have pay for the machinery and the skilled labor, plus tariffs, shipping, etc. We have a duality in this country where one side demands American jobs but also demands prices so low that American salaries could never be paid from the profits of those products unless the products cost much, much more, forcing companies to find offshore manufacturing to meet the desires of their consumers. The other side wants global equality but also demands general salaries so high that they could never be paid to American standards unless the products also cost much more than people are willing to pay, again forcing cost cutting and overseas manufacturing. 20 years ago you could get away with the lower quality of Chinese products for a vastly lower price, using the reasoning of "not that bad is good enough".. and it worked for generic consumer products, but at the time there was no infrastructure for extremely accurate/precision work until capitalist companies invested more into their overseas plants. But today, Chinese work quality can be so high that their educated and skilled workers have experienced the highest wage growth ever on this planet, and it's becoming very hard to reconcile using Asian manufacturing with high profit margins for precision work. 20 years ago you could get 10 college degree level workers for the salary of one American Bachelor's degree grad. Today it's roughly 2-3:1 for STEM degree equivalents. If China ever realizes they could do boutique manufacturing for less than the rest of the world, US and European manufacturing is done. Svart China can build anything as good as anybody else. The client chooses the parts and dictates the QC. The funniest thing about any anti China bias is this, where do you think any or all the parts inside of European or US made gear comes from.
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 3, 2019 14:04:18 GMT -6
Mars? Or maybe Europa? j/k.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 3, 2019 15:12:42 GMT -6
Well I sure wouldn't mind a capsule that equals the Neumann's for $150 either ;-)
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Post by LesC on Apr 3, 2019 19:53:08 GMT -6
I'm hoping for a solid comparison between the BLA ($800) and Serpent ($1600).
I had a Serpent Splice II for a while and loved it for recording vocals. I had a Warm 1176 and returned it because of mechanical switch failures, I don't seem to have much luck with cheap clones. I'd like to get an 1176 again. If the BLA would get me most of the way to Serpent quality, then the price would be very reasonable.
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 3, 2019 21:49:11 GMT -6
I hope it out performs the "Seventeen" they put out. I had that in here and had it on a vocal for about 10 minutes and I couldn't stand the sound of it. I'm usually a big fan of BLA, but they screwed that one up. It has an IC front end and didn't have an input transformer, and boy you could really tell, it just sounded awful.
I'll try this one out, sounds like they went more back to what makes 1176's do their thing. Electronic, chipped front end's sure as hell isn't the way to go.
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Post by 000 on Apr 3, 2019 22:27:43 GMT -6
I have 3 1176 style fet compressors - do I need another? Should I buy this one just to find out how it sounds?
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Post by LesC on Apr 3, 2019 22:56:42 GMT -6
I have 3 1176 style fet compressors - do I need another? Should I buy this one just to find out how it sounds? Of course!
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Post by hadaja on Apr 3, 2019 22:58:25 GMT -6
000 - need you ask of course you do and report back please.
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 5:43:47 GMT -6
I hope it out performs the "Seventeen" they put out. I had that in here and had it on a vocal for about 10 minutes and I couldn't stand the sound of it. I'm usually a big fan of BLA, but they screwed that one up. It has an IC front end and didn't have an input transformer, and boy you could really tell, it just sounded awful. I'll try this one out, sounds like they went more back to what makes 1176's do their thing. Electronic, chipped front end's sure as hell isn't the way to go. So it was a copy of the 1176 G revision? Because those have an IC front end and no input transformer.
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Post by rob61 on Apr 4, 2019 6:21:56 GMT -6
I hope it out performs the "Seventeen" they put out. I had that in here and had it on a vocal for about 10 minutes and I couldn't stand the sound of it. I'm usually a big fan of BLA, but they screwed that one up. It has an IC front end and didn't have an input transformer, and boy you could really tell, it just sounded awful. I'll try this one out, sounds like they went more back to what makes 1176's do their thing. Electronic, chipped front end's sure as hell isn't the way to go. So it was a copy of the 1176 F/G revisions? Because those have an IC front end and no input transformer. You sure? According to serial numbers, I've got 2 "F"s and a "G" (originals) and the "F"s have Input and Output transformers. The G has a chip front.
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 6:48:27 GMT -6
So it was a copy of the 1176 F/G revisions? Because those have an IC front end and no input transformer. You sure? According to serial numbers, I've got 2 "F"s and a "G" (originals) and the "F"s have Input and Output transformers. The G has a chip front. You're right. The site I looked at claim the F was also IC input, but checking UA's site says that didn't start until G. Anyway, I have Rev A, Rev D, Rev E and Rev G clones. The only one that sounds drastically different is the Rev A. The rest do the 1176 "thing" and I don't notice much difference between the D/E and G at all, other than available gain.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 4, 2019 8:32:21 GMT -6
I hope it out performs the "Seventeen" they put out. I had that in here and had it on a vocal for about 10 minutes and I couldn't stand the sound of it. I'm usually a big fan of BLA, but they screwed that one up. It has an IC front end and didn't have an input transformer, and boy you could really tell, it just sounded awful. I'll try this one out, sounds like they went more back to what makes 1176's do their thing. Electronic, chipped front end's sure as hell isn't the way to go. So it was a copy of the 1176 G revision? Because those have an IC front end and no input transformer. I've always gotten along with vintage Rev Gs, despite their bad rep. Mostly on drums though.
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 8:35:45 GMT -6
So it was a copy of the 1176 G revision? Because those have an IC front end and no input transformer. I've always gotten along with vintage Rev Gs, despite their bad rep. Mostly on drums though. Same. I typically put mine on things that need the 1176 spank but no real change in tonality like snare and bass.
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 4, 2019 9:44:18 GMT -6
I've always gotten along with vintage Rev Gs, despite their bad rep. Mostly on drums though. Same. I typically put mine on things that need the 1176 spank but no real change in tonality like snare and bass. I tried it on everything and it sucked... I’ve heard the Klark Teknik is pretty darn spot on and sounds good. I probably I’ll grab one if those.
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 11:04:37 GMT -6
Same. I typically put mine on things that need the 1176 spank but no real change in tonality like snare and bass. I tried it on everything and it sucked... I’ve heard the Klark Teknik is pretty darn spot on and sounds good. I probably I’ll grab one if those. I dunno, maybe you had a bad or poorly calibrated unit? I really don't hear a lot of tonal difference between G revs and others that aren't the A revision. If a unit is out of FET calibration, they can sound pretty bad.
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 4, 2019 11:15:13 GMT -6
I tried it on everything and it sucked... I’ve heard the Klark Teknik is pretty darn spot on and sounds good. I probably I’ll grab one if those. I dunno, maybe you had a bad or poorly calibrated unit? I really don't hear a lot of tonal difference between G revs and others that aren't the A revision. If a unit is out of FET calibration, they can sound pretty bad. That is possible, I did buy a returned unit, a demo unit, so there could be something wrong with it. Still, I think I’m going to try the really cheap one out, I’ve heard it’s pretty darn good for the money.
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 11:45:17 GMT -6
I dunno, maybe you had a bad or poorly calibrated unit? I really don't hear a lot of tonal difference between G revs and others that aren't the A revision. If a unit is out of FET calibration, they can sound pretty bad. That is possible, I did buy a returned unit, a demo unit, so there could be something wrong with it. Still, I think I’m going to try the really cheap one out, I’ve heard it’s pretty darn good for the money. Cool. Let us know how it turns out. I have also read good reviews of it. If I needed another one I'd certainly give it a try.
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Post by drbill on Apr 4, 2019 13:05:35 GMT -6
$188 @ Thomann.... Few week wait.
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 4, 2019 13:17:33 GMT -6
$188 @ Thomann.... Few week wait. Looked but didn’t see it...can you share the link? Thx
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Post by svart on Apr 4, 2019 13:48:01 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Apr 4, 2019 14:47:58 GMT -6
I had the KT and compared it extensively to my WA76s. They sound really similar with the KT being a tad brighter/leaner and a little noisier. I like the original style knobs on the KT better than the stepped WA76 knobs though. Overall I prefer the weightier sound of the WA76 but if I didn’t already own the WA76s it would have been a tougher choice. The way Behringer is doing the scorched earth thing to try and get rid of Warm, the KTs will probably be $50 a pop in a year or so.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 4, 2019 16:39:45 GMT -6
I paid about this much to get my KT76 from Thomann (to California). I'm quite happy with it.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 4, 2019 19:51:44 GMT -6
Because they're not Behringer. They actually care about quality. Behringer doesn't.
Think of it like this - you want to propose to your girlfriend. You can either spend some serious money for an engagement ring at a respected jeweler or you can buy a ring that looks about the same from the guy on the corner hawking jewelry from inside his overcoat. Which do you do. What will you do when your girlfriend's finger turns green from the cheap knockoff ring?
I would never marry a woman who required a huge/expensive ring to "know" that I loved her. If she required a big/expensive ring as a material symbol of my love, then she truly doesn't understand love. You're single, yes?
The ring is a symbol. If you give a fake ring, it soesn't say much for your devotion. An engagement ring need not be extravagant but it should be genuine, else it says something about your lack of true committment.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 4, 2019 19:55:11 GMT -6
If it works the same, then why stick to brand/pedigree? Lot's of times it's either the subconscious connection between spending more and believing it'll bring better performance, or a subconscious desire for prestige/symbols of wealth. If it quacks like a duck and all that.. Yeah I just meant in the mind of the general consumer. For me, if it’s the same piece of equipment, functionally, I’d of course take the lower priced/more efficiently produced piece. The "general" consumer these days is an idiot. I'd rather pay twice as much for something that will last a lifetime than pay half as much for something that fails right after the warranty expires.
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