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Post by Omicron9 on Apr 14, 2020 9:04:07 GMT -6
I've owned/used the Peluso 47SE and the 251 models. I liked both quite a lot; well-made, no issues or complaints. The 47SE had a nice ... not sure how to explain... darkness or depth or heft to it. The 251 was much brighter, but not what I'd call harsh or brittle. Less bottom end than the 47. Never having used an original 47 or 251, I can't comment on how close the Pelusos might be to the originals; nor did I care really. I took them for what they were: two good tube mics that were quite different colors to each other.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 9:37:40 GMT -6
I strongly agree with EmRR. All the records that sounded amazing and unique back in the day, what people wanted to sound like, didn’t use the classics, especially for metal and rock. The fetishization of early solid state seems to cross over from audiophilia (the eagles, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, The Police type pristine productions) and emulation plugins. Then people get clones or vintage gear of varying quality and use it to make the most generic, robotic music possible.
The corporatization of radio pretty much made the music and recordings that are very popular very limited. Limiting perception is limiting the mind. Streaming has not done a lot to make underground and independent music more popular. When it has, it’s a purely superficial connection to it, rather than a deep internalization of it for what it is as it is. I’ve seen this with house, prog, ambient, and metal. So everything has become more generic over time in a way that could not even have been imagined in the year 2000. This includes gear. People want Clear Channel classic tones. People are willing to pay for ersatz versions of those tools that are pretty much just as unreliable tools as cheap Chinese crap from CVS, Wal-mart, and Home Depot. The uses are more limited and they’ll have to rebuy them. Yeah a 24 year old appartment dweller only needs a screwdriver to replace the battery in his smoke alarm and can’t see that the shitty pot metal on will break in a few years. The same is true of clone gear and credit card debt. People just won’t save and buy stuff. Everything is disposable. Even the music streamed in the background on earbuds.
I am growing to hate Bricasti m7 and Capitol chambers plugs on everything recent. Prefer dirtier Lexicon and Alesis verb or even Behringer V Verb. That grit works.
I prefer Daking, FMR, and better interface pres (Apogee, Yamaha, even MOTU is okay now) to API and Neve. Daking stack best. I like to control my saturation, not sound like everything else, and use the same pre type for almost everything on a record. A lot of pres will hold you back or limit flexibility in a different way than a crappy, clearish but not clean, RME Octamic will. The current Focusrite pres and some UA ones are pretty much Chinese clones of themselves anyway today.
The 1176s I’ve used, including beat up originals and warm were pretty much garbage compared to a Distressor, FMR RNC, and even aliased to hell old Blockfish. I want to hear a vintage 1:1 recreation like audioscape but I just don’t need it. I asked my friend to run a kick through an a real, current ua 1176 a while back and his Distressor and the VladG, darker version of Limiter 6 did a better job.
the only slutty thing I really felt super duper useful was the ssl bus comp for tucking in a kit and being able to push the vcas but most of the clones are too colored. the gssl was pretty vibe killing and the plugin clones pretty much all bad. They never get the gr behavior, depth, or timbre right. The alphalink, six, 2+, and other recent ssl stuff sound awesome.I want to try the audioscape someday. 3k for bus compressor is insane in today’s business for the real thing but the real thing is a tool. The API 2500+ is nuts for a mix knob but it’s versatile color.
People won’t pay money for tools. They want ever more color boxes. The worse 1176 and ssl clones are popular too because a lot of the newer, western made, semi-boutique stuff are 3-5 thousand dollar mud boxes. People are paying for nasty color boxes and refuse to pay over a grand for a cleanish tool like the real deal ssl or Alan smart comps. A lot of the boutique stuff is just muddy distorted crap and I don’t know how anyone could actually think they are anymore better than something like Vintage Warmer but cost over 4k to make random out of place distortion in mostly computer pop and major label lite music that can afford the mud box and afford to maintain it. Many of these mud boxes, if based on tubes, would be ripped to shreds by hifi tube gear aficionados who have built very clean sounding, non-etched tube gear, some of which costs megabucks due to rare parts.
I even mostly quit the console channel strip emu plugs for stock daw plugs and metric halo (so many functions on them don’t work well. Even Metric Halo has non-functional compressors), Apogee and ignite pultechs depending on the computer, variety of sound on windows (these saturate differently than slick eq), Tokyo dawn (slick eq and kotelnikov alone are gold), Molot (if this was analog gear, it should cost double anything like Manley), lately the ugritone alesis midiVerb ii clone almost exclusively on many things.
I see this with guitar gear too. Amps, pickups, pedals. The Boss Hm-2 worship from modern hardcore guys post Swedish death metal book is hilarious. All the Kurt Ballou tones are bad. Those boss pedals suck on their own. I’ve owned all of them. Most of what’s great about the Swedish death metal tone came from stacking tracks with good amps with different pedals, other gear, and good engineering with other gear like the Seck 1882 console. That thing isn’t fetishized. None of the guys who sound like dirtier versions of Godsmack really have workable tones. TV static wielding black metal guitarists have better shitty tones than them.
That board sounds cool. Some of the functions on the Yamaha O2R and 01V and old Tascam boards sound cool but aren’t fetishized because they’re cheap and digital. Lots of old cool gear is dirt cheap and still works with some refurbishment. I’d rather spend 300 bucks on that than on a KT box with “Midas transformers” and JRC4580 everywhere. They just weren’t used on big-budget, post mid 90s FCC “reform” radio clear channel classic rock or being shilled now by flavor of the month, mainstream media promoted artists or have people paid to plug it as sounding beautiful despite all shortcomings constantly on Gearslutz. People who buy Behringer quality pretty much don’t want those tools, nether will people that thought Metallica’s Black Album or Nevermind sounded good, nor those who buy every new hyped UA or PA clone plug day one for 150-300 bucks.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 17, 2020 11:16:57 GMT -6
I strongly agree with EmRR. All the records that sounded amazing and unique back in the day, what people wanted to sound like, didn’t use the classics, especially for metal and rock. The fetishization of early solid state seems to cross over from audiophilia (the eagles, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, The Police type pristine productions) and emulation plugins. Then people get clones or vintage gear of varying quality and use it to make the most generic, robotic music possible. The corporatization of radio pretty much made the music and recordings that are very popular very limited. Limiting perception is limiting the mind. Streaming has not done a lot to make underground and independent music more popular. When it has, it’s a purely superficial connection to it, rather than a deep internalization of it for what it is as it is. I’ve seen this with house, prog, ambient, and metal. So everything has become more generic over time in a way that could not even have been imagined in the year 2000. This includes gear. People want Clear Channel classic tones. People are willing to pay for ersatz versions of those tools that are pretty much just as unreliable tools as cheap Chinese crap from CVS, Wal-mart, and Home Depot. The uses are more limited and they’ll have to rebuy them. Yeah a 24 year old appartment dweller only needs a screwdriver to replace the battery in his smoke alarm and can’t see that the shitty pot metal on will break in a few years. The same is true of clone gear and credit card debt. People just won’t save and buy stuff. Everything is disposable. Even the music streamed in the background on earbuds. I am growing to hate Bricasti m7 and Capitol chambers plugs on everything recent. Prefer dirtier Lexicon and Alesis verb or even Behringer V Verb. That grit works. I prefer Daking, FMR, and better interface pres (Apogee, Yamaha, even MOTU is okay now) to API and Neve. Daking stack best. I like to control my saturation, not sound like everything else, and use the same pre type for almost everything on a record. A lot of pres will hold you back or limit flexibility in a different way than a crappy, clearish but not clean, RME Octamic will. The current Focusrite pres and some UA ones are pretty much Chinese clones of themselves anyway today. The 1176s I’ve used, including beat up originals and warm were pretty much garbage compared to a Distressor, FMR RNC, and even aliased to hell old Blockfish. I want to hear a vintage 1:1 recreation like audioscape but I just don’t need it. I asked my friend to run a kick through an a real, current ua 1176 a while back and his Distressor and the VladG, darker version of Limiter 6 did a better job. the only slutty thing I really felt super duper useful was the ssl bus comp for tucking in a kit and being able to push the vcas but most of the clones are too colored. the gssl was pretty vibe killing and the plugin clones pretty much all bad. They never get the gr behavior, depth, or timbre right. The alphalink, six, 2+, and other recent ssl stuff sound awesome.I want to try the audioscape someday. 3k for bus compressor is insane in today’s business for the real thing but the real thing is a tool. The API 2500+ is nuts for a mix knob but it’s versatile color. People won’t pay money for tools. They want ever more color boxes. The worse 1176 and ssl clones are popular too because a lot of the newer, western made, semi-boutique stuff are 3-5 thousand dollar mud boxes. People are paying for nasty color boxes and refuse to pay over a grand for a cleanish tool like the real deal ssl or Alan smart comps. A lot of the boutique stuff is just muddy distorted crap and I don’t know how anyone could actually think they are anymore better than something like Vintage Warmer but cost over 4k to make random out of place distortion in mostly computer pop and major label lite music that can afford the mud box and afford to maintain it. Many of these mud boxes, if based on tubes, would be ripped to shreds by hifi tube gear aficionados who have built very clean sounding, non-etched tube gear, some of which costs megabucks due to rare parts. I even mostly quit the console channel strip emu plugs for stock daw plugs and metric halo (so many functions on them don’t work well. Even Metric Halo has non-functional compressors), Apogee and ignite pultechs depending on the computer, variety of sound on windows (these saturate differently than slick eq), Tokyo dawn (slick eq and kotelnikov alone are gold), Molot (if this was analog gear, it should cost double anything like Manley), lately the ugritone alesis midiVerb ii clone almost exclusively on many things. I see this with guitar gear too. Amps, pickups, pedals. The Boss Hm-2 worship from modern hardcore guys post Swedish death metal book is hilarious. All the Kurt Ballou tones are bad. Those boss pedals suck on their own. I’ve owned all of them. Most of what’s great about the Swedish death metal tone came from stacking tracks with good amps with different pedals, other gear, and good engineering with other gear like the Seck 1882 console. That thing isn’t fetishized. None of the guys who sound like dirtier versions of Godsmack really have workable tones. TV static wielding black metal guitarists have better shitty tones than them. That board sounds cool. Some of the functions on the Yamaha O2R and 01V and old Tascam boards sound cool but aren’t fetishized because they’re cheap and digital. Lots of old cool gear is dirt cheap and still works with some refurbishment. I’d rather spend 300 bucks on that than on a KT box with “Midas transformers” and JRC4580 everywhere. They just weren’t used on big-budget, post mid 90s FCC “reform” radio clear channel classic rock or being shilled now by flavor of the month, mainstream media promoted artists or have people paid to plug it as sounding beautiful despite all shortcomings constantly on Gearslutz. People who buy Behringer quality pretty much don’t want those tools, nether will people that thought Metallica’s Black Album or Nevermind sounded good, nor those who buy every new hyped UA or PA clone plug day one for 150-300 bucks. The Arturia and UAD 1176s are better than some of the HW clones I’ve used.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 17, 2020 11:56:59 GMT -6
I have Waves' CLA 1176 and UAD's 1176 collection, and few others and I had the Warm WA76 for a while. The CLA was the only one that worked for balancing acoustic guitars that were strumming a lot. I wanted the others to sound better, but I don't seem too suffer from confirmation bias very much, as I always pick what sounds good over what I want to sound good.
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Post by Guitar on Apr 17, 2020 12:15:51 GMT -6
Purple MC77 from Plugin Alliance is also really really good. A little bit brighter than the usual 1176.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 12:26:58 GMT -6
I strongly agree with EmRR. All the records that sounded amazing and unique back in the day, what people wanted to sound like, didn’t use the classics, especially for metal and rock. The fetishization of early solid state seems to cross over from audiophilia (the eagles, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, The Police type pristine productions) and emulation plugins. Then people get clones or vintage gear of varying quality and use it to make the most generic, robotic music possible. The corporatization of radio pretty much made the music and recordings that are very popular very limited. Limiting perception is limiting the mind. Streaming has not done a lot to make underground and independent music more popular. When it has, it’s a purely superficial connection to it, rather than a deep internalization of it for what it is as it is. I’ve seen this with house, prog, ambient, and metal. So everything has become more generic over time in a way that could not even have been imagined in the year 2000. This includes gear. People want Clear Channel classic tones. People are willing to pay for ersatz versions of those tools that are pretty much just as unreliable tools as cheap Chinese crap from CVS, Wal-mart, and Home Depot. The uses are more limited and they’ll have to rebuy them. Yeah a 24 year old appartment dweller only needs a screwdriver to replace the battery in his smoke alarm and can’t see that the shitty pot metal on will break in a few years. The same is true of clone gear and credit card debt. People just won’t save and buy stuff. Everything is disposable. Even the music streamed in the background on earbuds. I am growing to hate Bricasti m7 and Capitol chambers plugs on everything recent. Prefer dirtier Lexicon and Alesis verb or even Behringer V Verb. That grit works. I prefer Daking, FMR, and better interface pres (Apogee, Yamaha, even MOTU is okay now) to API and Neve. Daking stack best. I like to control my saturation, not sound like everything else, and use the same pre type for almost everything on a record. A lot of pres will hold you back or limit flexibility in a different way than a crappy, clearish but not clean, RME Octamic will. The current Focusrite pres and some UA ones are pretty much Chinese clones of themselves anyway today. The 1176s I’ve used, including beat up originals and warm were pretty much garbage compared to a Distressor, FMR RNC, and even aliased to hell old Blockfish. I want to hear a vintage 1:1 recreation like audioscape but I just don’t need it. I asked my friend to run a kick through an a real, current ua 1176 a while back and his Distressor and the VladG, darker version of Limiter 6 did a better job. the only slutty thing I really felt super duper useful was the ssl bus comp for tucking in a kit and being able to push the vcas but most of the clones are too colored. the gssl was pretty vibe killing and the plugin clones pretty much all bad. They never get the gr behavior, depth, or timbre right. The alphalink, six, 2+, and other recent ssl stuff sound awesome.I want to try the audioscape someday. 3k for bus compressor is insane in today’s business for the real thing but the real thing is a tool. The API 2500+ is nuts for a mix knob but it’s versatile color. People won’t pay money for tools. They want ever more color boxes. The worse 1176 and ssl clones are popular too because a lot of the newer, western made, semi-boutique stuff are 3-5 thousand dollar mud boxes. People are paying for nasty color boxes and refuse to pay over a grand for a cleanish tool like the real deal ssl or Alan smart comps. A lot of the boutique stuff is just muddy distorted crap and I don’t know how anyone could actually think they are anymore better than something like Vintage Warmer but cost over 4k to make random out of place distortion in mostly computer pop and major label lite music that can afford the mud box and afford to maintain it. Many of these mud boxes, if based on tubes, would be ripped to shreds by hifi tube gear aficionados who have built very clean sounding, non-etched tube gear, some of which costs megabucks due to rare parts. I even mostly quit the console channel strip emu plugs for stock daw plugs and metric halo (so many functions on them don’t work well. Even Metric Halo has non-functional compressors), Apogee and ignite pultechs depending on the computer, variety of sound on windows (these saturate differently than slick eq), Tokyo dawn (slick eq and kotelnikov alone are gold), Molot (if this was analog gear, it should cost double anything like Manley), lately the ugritone alesis midiVerb ii clone almost exclusively on many things. I see this with guitar gear too. Amps, pickups, pedals. The Boss Hm-2 worship from modern hardcore guys post Swedish death metal book is hilarious. All the Kurt Ballou tones are bad. Those boss pedals suck on their own. I’ve owned all of them. Most of what’s great about the Swedish death metal tone came from stacking tracks with good amps with different pedals, other gear, and good engineering with other gear like the Seck 1882 console. That thing isn’t fetishized. None of the guys who sound like dirtier versions of Godsmack really have workable tones. TV static wielding black metal guitarists have better shitty tones than them. That board sounds cool. Some of the functions on the Yamaha O2R and 01V and old Tascam boards sound cool but aren’t fetishized because they’re cheap and digital. Lots of old cool gear is dirt cheap and still works with some refurbishment. I’d rather spend 300 bucks on that than on a KT box with “Midas transformers” and JRC4580 everywhere. They just weren’t used on big-budget, post mid 90s FCC “reform” radio clear channel classic rock or being shilled now by flavor of the month, mainstream media promoted artists or have people paid to plug it as sounding beautiful despite all shortcomings constantly on Gearslutz. People who buy Behringer quality pretty much don’t want those tools, nether will people that thought Metallica’s Black Album or Nevermind sounded good, nor those who buy every new hyped UA or PA clone plug day one for 150-300 bucks. The Arturia and UAD 1176s are better than some of the HW clones I’ve used. UAD one is good. CLA is great. It’s like the hardware but better ime. Less noise issues. The noise can be really bad in originals and clone hardware but I haven’t used a direct recreation.
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Post by jamiesego on Apr 17, 2020 14:25:05 GMT -6
The WA76 I had was great on bass. I actually slightly preferred it to my hairball 76’s for bass but I preferred them for things like vocals and snare.
I think it’s possible we’ll see an anti-expensive gear trend soon. I’ve seen folks brag about how many 57’s they use on pop records recently, or talk about Billy Eilish records cut with TLM103’s. I’ve mixed songs In the last couple years with vocals tracks from iPhone mics. I know someone who makes brilliant stuff with GarageBand on his iPhone. I dig the punk DIY aspect of all that.
Still wish I had some vintage Neumanns though.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 17, 2020 15:09:36 GMT -6
The WA76 I had was great on bass. I actually slightly preferred it to my hairball 76’s for bass but I preferred them for things like vocals and snare. I think it’s possible we’ll see an anti-expensive gear trend soon. I’ve seen folks brag about how many 57’s they use on pop records recently, or talk about Billy Eilish records cut with TLM103’s. I’ve mixed songs In the last couple years with vocals tracks from iPhone mics. I know someone who makes brilliant stuff with GarageBand on his iPhone. I dig the punk DIY aspect of all that. Still wish I had some vintage Neumanns though. I mean, loads of indie rockers put the Tascam 388 on a pedestal. Having come up on the 3 series Tascam stuff, I shudder to imagine going back to it. But I’ve also got access to an Ampex 16 track that they should be booking instead and am not exactly neutral on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 17:32:02 GMT -6
Those Tascams still sell for money. It’s totally ridiculous when MOTU 8pre-es and 16a and Apogee Element 88 (more prosumer but Apogee pres) are just over a thousand bucks and actually sound good!
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 17, 2020 17:40:46 GMT -6
Plenty of stuff works good enough to get you there, it’s just whatever gets you to the desired effect the quickest. The way Billy Eillish sings - breathy and not really at full belt won’t expose a cheap condenser (not that the TLM is that) - could have just as easily been done on a $150 SE. whatever sounds the best. Indie punk bands aren’t really found for the Sinatra sound. More lofi...so shit, anything could work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 17:59:20 GMT -6
Plenty of stuff works good enough to get you there, it’s just whatever gets you to the desired effect the quickest. The way Billy Eillish sings - breathy and not really at full belt won’t expose a cheap condenser (not that the TLM is that) - could have just as easily been done on a $150 SE. whatever sounds the best. Indie punk bands aren’t really found for the Sinatra sound. More lofi...so shit, anything could work. That’s true and most of these guys have no vibe or tones to capture anymore anyway. Unfortunately most of them won’t even buy a Focusrite Scarlett and an Sm57. I’ve had stuff sent to me recorded with phone, iPad, and laptop speakers. One guy did use Shure karoake mics and his recording wasn’t entirely awful for his demo, just bright and noisy.
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Post by Ward on Apr 18, 2020 5:54:22 GMT -6
I strongly agree with EmRR. All the records that sounded amazing and unique back in the day, what people wanted to sound like, didn’t use the classics, especially for metal and rock. The fetishization of early solid state seems to cross over from audiophilia (the eagles, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, The Police type pristine productions) and emulation plugins. Then people get clones or vintage gear of varying quality and use it to make the most generic, robotic music possible. GIGANTIC SNIP - PLEASE READ THE PREVIOUS POST THIS IS CLIPPED FROM... . What are you hearing that is astonishing clear and clean? In the pop world, the 1975 come to mind. But most pop and mainstream relies heavily on saturation and of course mixers even use distortion plugins on the 2-buss. I've been striving to create an experience in every production and mix I've done for a long time and find that some of the clones work. Putting near finished sounds in the box during tracking is extremely important to me, and using the cleanest mics and comps and EQs possible is part of that. Everything in the box is a psycho-acoustic effect to some degree anyhow. Clones I really find useful, yes audioscape. The AS V-Comp (Sta Level) is magical as is their bluestripe 1176 and Pultec EQ reproductions. Of course I own more of their gear than that, just those come to mind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 14:47:23 GMT -6
I strongly agree with EmRR. All the records that sounded amazing and unique back in the day, what people wanted to sound like, didn’t use the classics, especially for metal and rock. The fetishization of early solid state seems to cross over from audiophilia (the eagles, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan, The Police type pristine productions) and emulation plugins. Then people get clones or vintage gear of varying quality and use it to make the most generic, robotic music possible. GIGANTIC SNIP - PLEASE READ THE PREVIOUS POST THIS IS CLIPPED FROM... . What are you hearing that is astonishing clear and clean? In the pop world, the 1975 come to mind. But most pop and mainstream relies heavily on saturation and of course mixers even use distortion plugins on the 2-buss. I've been striving to create an experience in every production and mix I've done for a long time and find that some of the clones work. Putting near finished sounds in the box during tracking is extremely important to me, and using the cleanest mics and comps and EQs possible is part of that. Everything in the box is a psycho-acoustic effect to some degree anyhow. Clones I really find useful, yes audioscape . The AS V-Comp (Sta Level) is magical as is their bluestripe 1176 and Pultec EQ reproductions. Of course I own more of their gear than that, just those come to mind. That’s my point. They’re not trying get it in the box mostly how it should sound on the record, “eqing” with different performances, instruments, tunings, amps, mics, micings, pres, etc. These aren’t even performances they’re trying to capture. Screw learning to play. This isn’t even verse by verse production like Metallica and Justice for All. More note by note like Def Leppard but worse. A lot of the cheaper clones being hyped up, the ones that are actually stocked by Sweetwater, Vintage King, and Guitar Center that you can get in a couple days, are just shitty color boxes with ersatz off-color box tones of the original gear. Original gear that were tools that happened to have a good box tone. Smart, Audioscape, Vintech, and the diy crowd aren’t Warm, Golden Age, and Behringer recreations. The former are tools, the latter mostly color boxes worse than the utilitarian tools most people with a decent interface and internet access already have. Now a lot of the muntzed and “value-engineered” Warm gear is great for dirtying up too sterile rock tones but it can’t do the jobs the original tools can. It doesn’t sound and behave like them. It’s way noisier and dirtier and does a different thing than what it claims to be a clone of. Dirtier and more limiting than modernish plugs. Tons of home and project studio recordings are very clean now for what is actually recorded. Yes the guitar cab may still be miced up with an SM57 but there is way less audible distortion, and more subtle box tone of gear and some plugins than outright clipping and distortion. They won’t distort the vi drum kit to hell and back. This stuff is almost all independent. Major label commercial recordings and those that aspire to be like them now are entirely different. They want expensive gear that was popular, or clones of it, because it was used on popular records that sounded way better than them like a drug lord with a tiger to run their sterile tracks through for color. People who can’t afford to do that with the real thing want clones to do that. In terms of recording, yes most pop is very sterile, clean, and uninspiring if it was professionally done in a studio. If not, it’s dirtier than any punk or metal band who payed for studio time and many who didn’t. The performances and tones are very insipid to say nothing of the music. The drums are totally fake or sample enhanced to hell and back. The vocals buzz with distortion and then the intentional clipping but a lot of this was done after recording. I just listened to this 1975 band. I thought it was a piece of Drawmer gear or a plugin at first. It’s awful. Drums are samples with the Andy Wallace type distortion done to 11, vocals harmonically excited to hell, guitar tone is small with a bunch of pedals crapping it up like your typically awful modern rock band. Everything is flat, limited, and has been through harmonic exciters. Drum kit has zero image. Zero depth anywhere. The 1975 are trying to sell itself on nostalgia to people who weren’t even alive in the 80s. Same with Greta Van Fleet being sold as Led Zeppelin nostalgia to 12 to 23 year olds who have never listened to Led Zeppelin.
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Post by soundintheround on Apr 18, 2020 21:19:35 GMT -6
Cloners go after classic gear because it is the most in-demand, and has the largest selling power.
Classic gear is considered just that, because it was the stuff most commonly found in every studio. It was the cream that rose to the top and cherished over the years by engineers and producers. Its the stuff that makes something 'sound like a record'.
To me the biggest aspect of a clone is the 'tone' it imparts. Most of that comes from the transformer for compressors/pres, or the capsule for mics, but I think the final 5-10% comes from a combination of many things.
The behringers of the world for me, run the risk of taking business from small/medium sized boutique gear manufactures (I cannot prove this, but just my theory) which I am not a fan of. It cheapens the product so it becomes more plastic-y, cheaply made construction/components/look, and feel, while still maintaining a 'decent-enough' audio shootout on youtube.
I'm all for the clones, but I like mine of the more 'upper-class' you could say....or even better high quality DIY. But not this super cheap stuff
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Post by Ward on Apr 19, 2020 13:56:10 GMT -6
SNIP . . . Less noise issues. The noise can be really bad in originals and clone hardware but I haven’t used a direct recreation. You need to try both the Pro Replicas and audioscape 1176 Bluestripe Rev AB clones. (I have both and experience with originals too) Same sound as the originals, virtually NO noise. How? I'm thinking guys like Chris Yetter aren't content with just taking your money but earning it and earning your confidence.
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Post by EmRR on Apr 19, 2020 14:13:15 GMT -6
Same sound as the originals, virtually NO noise. How? That’s easy. Old carbon resistors in originals absorb moisture over time, get noisy. If they are new carbon now, well, they are new NOW. Someday they won’t be. Or strategic use of metal film in a couple places, or all metal film.
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Post by Ward on Apr 19, 2020 15:59:08 GMT -6
Same sound as the originals, virtually NO noise. How? That’s easy. Old carbon resistors in originals absorb moisture over time, get noisy. If they are new carbon now, well, they are new NOW. Someday they won’t be. Or strategic use of metal film in a couple places, or all metal film. You're on to something there. Maybe Chris audioscape might weight in with some best practices and not give away trade secrets?
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Post by EmRR on Apr 19, 2020 16:03:04 GMT -6
That’s easy. Old carbon resistors in originals absorb moisture over time, get noisy. If they are new carbon now, well, they are new NOW. Someday they won’t be. Or strategic use of metal film in a couple places, or all metal film. You're on to something there. Maybe Chris audioscape might weight in with some best practices and not give away trade secrets? There's nothing trade secret about it, these are basic tech facts. I just told you! : )
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Post by prene1 on Apr 21, 2020 13:50:47 GMT -6
So far all the things I've purchased have been worth it over the plugin counterparts. I've been comparing my UA vs Nebula.
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Post by bradd on Apr 21, 2020 15:53:13 GMT -6
SNIP . . . Less noise issues. The noise can be really bad in originals and clone hardware but I haven’t used a direct recreation. You need to try both the Pro Replicas and audioscape 1176 Bluestripe Rev AB clones. (I have both and experience with originals too) Same sound as the originals, virtually NO noise. How? I'm thinking guys like Chris Yetter aren't content with just taking your money but earning it and earning your confidence. So how do the Pro Replicas and Audioscapes compare?
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Post by Ward on Apr 21, 2020 16:45:39 GMT -6
You need to try both the Pro Replicas and audioscape 1176 Bluestripe Rev AB clones. (I have both and experience with originals too) Same sound as the originals, virtually NO noise. How? I'm thinking guys like Chris Yetter aren't content with just taking your money but earning it and earning your confidence. So how do the Pro Replicas and Audioscapes compare? The Pro Replicas is everything you've heard about an 1176 ab The Audioscape is even faster. 6attack and 5 release are like 7 & 7 on the original. You could track 1/2 a song on one and finish on the other and not be able to hear the difference. Both sound the same as the OG but have significantly less noise. Almost undetectable.
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Post by bradd on Apr 21, 2020 18:23:47 GMT -6
Thanks for the comparison, Ward.
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Post by audioscape on Apr 22, 2020 14:54:38 GMT -6
You're on to something there. Maybe Chris audioscape might weight in with some best practices and not give away trade secrets? There's nothing trade secret about it, these are basic tech facts. I just told you! : ) agreed Ward with EmRR !! ;-) It's a CAREFUL balance of carbon comp, carbon film and metal film amongst many other factors...
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Post by soundintheround on Apr 22, 2020 16:30:46 GMT -6
There's nothing trade secret about it, these are basic tech facts. I just told you! : ) agreed Ward with EmRR !! ;-) It's a CAREFUL balance of carbon comp, carbon film and metal film amongst many other factors... Having a good ear + passionate about the work + in depth understanding of electronics/gear + access to vintage pieces + not settling for ‘good enough’ + understanding what’s important for the customer = good results You guys out there rock!
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Post by Ward on Apr 22, 2020 17:15:35 GMT -6
agreed Ward with EmRR !! ;-) It's a CAREFUL balance of carbon comp, carbon film and metal film amongst many other factors... Having a good ear + passionate about the work + in depth understanding of electronics/gear + access to vintage pieces + not settling for ‘good enough’ + understanding what’s important for the customer = good results You guys out there rock! If there is such a thing as a "Clone Wars", I am confident that audioscape is going to hold their own and come out victorious.
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