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Post by matt@IAA on Nov 24, 2018 14:13:46 GMT -6
Clone Wars is Star Wars, not Star Trek! How could you? Listen if Scotty wants tp beam up Qui Jun Kim Un on the deck of the FIrefly, that's up to him Gasp!
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Post by seawell on Nov 24, 2018 17:23:33 GMT -6
1176: Tried warm, stam SA-76 & AudioScape 76A. I’m still on the hunt, thinking of trying a Splice MKII next. *Update: Just got the Splice MKII today and the hunt for a 1176 style comp is over...wow! This thing has all the attitude I didn't get in the other clones.
La2a: Stam MKII is great.
SSL Buss: Love theAudio-Scape, Also tried the Stam 4000+ but It was too much color for what I was going for.
Tube EQ: tried the Warm pair on 2 buss, not enough headroom for that purpose to me. The analogue addicts units look interesting as well but I don’t really know of anyone that has used them.
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Post by christopher on Nov 24, 2018 18:22:08 GMT -6
I have a thoerey.. I think the reason so many clones is because the originals really are amazing stuff. It bothered me for a while, like how could the very first transistor design be the best?! We must be nuts! But then reading interviews I realized they weren't trying to make the best equipment ever. They had one job: be as good sounding as tubes. They didn't have to outdo each other, all they had to do was sound close to a good pro tube version and the studios would buy that instead of the crazy expensive tube stuff. Also these guys knew how to design tube gear, so I think they knew how to do some things maybe later engineers didn't have to think about or learn? Now people just try to match their designs or improve on them, really they should be trying to sound like an old tube peice probably?
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 24, 2018 20:02:47 GMT -6
And what about clone mics? I need to build up that locker a bit more and am shuddering at the prices of the classics It depends what level you are looking for and how much you want to spend. Want something affordable, dependable, and in the ball park, while over all being slightly brighter with less low end, look no further than Peluso or some of the Advanced Audio mics, and possibly the Warm mics. To get really close you have to spend some real money; Bock, Telefunken, Wunder, FleA. I’ve even seen a few Wagner U47Ws on eBay/reverb lately too. Each has their own sound. Heck each vintage mic has its own sound. You just need to figure out which is closest to your ideal sound. Want something in the middle, look at Stam or a custom build. In fact with a good custom build you can get just as close as some of the big guys if you know what sound you are looking for and get quality capsules and transformers. With a lot of these mics the sacrifice comes in the replacement tubes and circuit changes made to use them. Without an AC701k or VF14 respectively none of these are ever exactly right. For instance, I tried a FleA 49 with an AC701K and it was frighteningly close to the real deal, but the tube is extra and you end up in the vintage tube trap. My FleA 49 has their stock tube and it’s a bit more modern sounding. Some might say it’s more open, but it’s really not. It’s just missing a touch in the low end.
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Post by jakeboy on Nov 27, 2018 20:39:38 GMT -6
I have the KT1176 and Pultec clone. And the BLA73. I dig em.
I will likely order a Stam 312 or 73 pre once my 67 mic arrives.
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Post by subspace on Nov 28, 2018 9:20:17 GMT -6
1176: I've got a CAPI FC526 FET plus an unbuilt kit, may add the 1176-KT since it's the price of a kit now 1073: Own a pair of TNC ACMP84s, have a pair of Stam 1073EQs on order, or so I choose to believe LA2A: Just ordered the KT-2A, only other opto here is a VLA II so, different thing SSL bus: Have the Audient bus comp in the desk Pultec: Bought a pair of EQP-KTs the week they dropped in price, great EQs I'd say you're missing the API clones, I went CAPI 312 but there's Warm, BAE, BLA, etc. I have a pair of 160XTs plus Harman's own clone 560As, nobody is really competing with them at the $100 price point. I have a TNC ACMP84. The feature set is killer, but it’s much brighter than my Dan Alexander, a reracked 1290 preamp. I actually prefer my Unison UAD 1073 to it sonically. Revive audio can mod it and I have been debating that for a while. I use the TNCs on kick drum, some basses and ribbon mics on guitar amps religously. Not a fan on vocals or acoustics, hoping the Stams will be more suited on the more delicate sources.
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Post by subspace on Nov 28, 2018 9:22:47 GMT -6
I have a pair of 160XTs plus Harman's own clone 560As, nobody is really competing with them at the $100 price point. How do the 560's sound compared to the 160's? More transparent, can still thwack a drum sound fine but I'll put electrics through the XTs just for the sound and it's not there on the 560As.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 28, 2018 9:24:45 GMT -6
yeah I agree the X/XT has a "tone" on electric guitars, I sort of miss that.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 28, 2018 10:07:37 GMT -6
I have a TNC ACMP84. The feature set is killer, but it’s much brighter than my Dan Alexander, a reracked 1290 preamp. I actually prefer my Unison UAD 1073 to it sonically. Revive audio can mod it and I have been debating that for a while. I use the TNCs on kick drum, some basses and ribbon mics on guitar amps religously. Not a fan on vocals or acoustics, hoping the Stams will be more suited on the more delicate sources. Yeah, it's been my go to for my Altec 639. The Altec, unlike modern ribbons, has an impedance rating for 40 and prefers the low setting to the high setting. It's a nice combo.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 28, 2018 10:15:50 GMT -6
I wish someone could make an affordable CL1B. That's the compressor I really want.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 28, 2018 10:30:26 GMT -6
I wish someone could make an affordable CL1B. That's the compressor I really want. Have you tried the Softube MK II Tube Tech stuff? I was thinking about having a demo of them... they are on sale till the end of december
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Post by Ward on Nov 28, 2018 10:44:13 GMT -6
I wish someone could make an affordable CL1B. That's the compressor I really want. There's really nothing exactly like it. True, it's descended from the usual forebears in the opto category like the LA2a. But there is something very special about it.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 28, 2018 11:14:14 GMT -6
I wish someone could make an affordable CL1B. That's the compressor I really want. The SMC 2aMC is on my list for the mastering rig. Someday..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 28, 2018 17:30:00 GMT -6
I have been thinking of trying the Softube plug-in CL1B. I guess I could try UAD's version as a demo. I'll wait until I'm mixing something.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 28, 2018 17:35:23 GMT -6
I have been thinking of trying the Softube plug-in CL1B. I guess I could try UAD's version as a demo. I'll wait until I'm mixing something. From what I remember reading when it came out, the mkII version sounds quite a bit different, and I don't think the mkII version is available on UAD. Just a heads up.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 28, 2018 19:01:44 GMT -6
I wish someone could make an affordable CL1B. That's the compressor I really want. There's really nothing exactly like it. True, it's descended from the usual forebears in the opto category like the LA2a. But there is something very special about it. Buy the KT and stick Lundahls in it?
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rigo
Full Member
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Post by rigo on Nov 28, 2018 20:51:33 GMT -6
I'm surprised that the Slate Audio Dragon (an 1176 clone) doesn't seem to get much attention in the Clone Wars discussions. I have had one for several years and have found it to be a great-sounding and very versatile compressor. I can't tell you if it sounds exactly like an original 1176 or not, as it has been more than a decade since I have used an original. But the Slate sounds great on a variety of sources and has a few added features--preset EQ switches (occasionally useful), saturation control, parallel compression mix knob--that make it extremely versatile. I have used it somewhere on every recording I've made since I bought the thing and have always been very happy with the results. As a result, I haven't felt the need to explore any of the other undoubtedly good-sounding 1176 clones that have come along.
In the 1073 sweepstakes my money is till on the Great River ME-2NV, one of my favorite preamps. I keep thinking I should try one of the more recent clones--Stam, Heritage, the new Golden Age Premier--but I can't quite picture them replacing the Great River in my affections.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 28, 2018 22:39:30 GMT -6
I had the Great River for a few weeks. I have the Stam SA73 now. The GR was excellent, but I liked the Stam even more.
The Stam just felt like a Neve too me🙂
Welcome to the forum Rigo.
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Post by ragan on Nov 28, 2018 22:48:13 GMT -6
I'm surprised that the Slate Audio Dragon (an 1176 clone) doesn't seem to get much attention in the Clone Wars discussions. I have had one for several years and have found it to be a great-sounding and very versatile compressor. I can't tell you if it sounds exactly like an original 1176 or not, as it has been more than a decade since I have used an original. But the Slate sounds great on a variety of sources and has a few added features--preset EQ switches (occasionally useful), saturation control, parallel compression mix knob--that make it extremely versatile. I have used it somewhere on every recording I've made since I bought the thing and have always been very happy with the results. As a result, I haven't felt the need to explore any of the other undoubtedly good-sounding 1176 clones that have come along. In the 1073 sweepstakes my money is till on the Great River ME-2NV, one of my favorite preamps. I keep thinking I should try one of the more recent clones--Stam, Heritage, the new Golden Age Premier--but I can't quite picture them replacing the Great River in my affections. I've got two channels of Great River sitting next to two channels of Stam. Both nice. The Great River has been my go-to and will probably remain my go-to but the Stam is lovely as well. A little darker and slightly more colored. They're like two sides to the same Neve coin. The Great River slightly more open sounding, probably the more versatile piece, the Stam a little more overt sounding. Both have that large, round Neve thing (that my ear always craves) in spades.
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 29, 2018 0:20:36 GMT -6
It really is a lack of imagination, in a market that isn't really addressing an industry so much anymore, but hobbyists looking for shortcuts. Really? I love all types of instruments and gear--new and innovative, weird old crap, circuit bent, boutique high end, DIY, and the classics such as Gibson 45s, Radio King snares, u47s and LA2As. There's a reason that the classics are classic, and wanting to use some of those tools in the pursuit of making great music is not a shortcut. Many of us that are building CAPI pres or buying Klark Teknik outboard gear are working professionals on a budget, or young engineers building their first studio. And sure, there are hobbyist out there too. But I don't begrudge or belittle them because they help keep the market afloat and they love their hobby. If it's innovation and imagination you seek look no further than the amazing plugins that are being produced these days.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 29, 2018 0:39:19 GMT -6
I'm surprised that the Slate Audio Dragon (an 1176 clone) doesn't seem to get much attention in the Clone Wars discussions. I have had one for several years and have found it to be a great-sounding and very versatile compressor. I can't tell you if it sounds exactly like an original 1176 or not, as it has been more than a decade since I have used an original. But the Slate sounds great on a variety of sources and has a few added features--preset EQ switches (occasionally useful), saturation control, parallel compression mix knob--that make it extremely versatile. I have used it somewhere on every recording I've made since I bought the thing and have always been very happy with the results. As a result, I haven't felt the need to explore any of the other undoubtedly good-sounding 1176 clones that have come along. In the 1073 sweepstakes my money is till on the Great River ME-2NV, one of my favorite preamps. I keep thinking I should try one of the more recent clones--Stam, Heritage, the new Golden Age Premier--but I can't quite picture them replacing the Great River in my affections. I've got two channels of Great River sitting next to two channels of Stam. Both nice. The Great River has been my go-to and will probably remain my go-to but the Stam is lovely as well. A little darker and slightly more colored. They're like two sides to the same Neve coin. The Great River slightly more open sounding, probably the more versatile piece, the Stam a little more overt sounding. Both have that large, round Neve thing (that my ear always craves) in spades. Congrats on finally receiving the Stam!
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Post by ragan on Nov 29, 2018 1:25:30 GMT -6
I've got two channels of Great River sitting next to two channels of Stam. Both nice. The Great River has been my go-to and will probably remain my go-to but the Stam is lovely as well. A little darker and slightly more colored. They're like two sides to the same Neve coin. The Great River slightly more open sounding, probably the more versatile piece, the Stam a little more overt sounding. Both have that large, round Neve thing (that my ear always craves) in spades. Congrats on finally receiving the Stam! Thanks! It was a long road. I've still got a lot of getting to know it to do. My fall quarter is over in a couple weeks and I'll get some solid studio time then. Looking forward to kicking the tires some more.
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rigo
Full Member
Posts: 20
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Post by rigo on Nov 29, 2018 2:48:07 GMT -6
Thanks, guys--
Something tells me I may have to get one of the recent Neve clones just to see for myself how they stack up. I certainly have vivid memories of recording in studios with Neve consoles years ago, or renting a couple of racked-up Neve modules to use for overdubbing in less well-equipped studios. That was always our idea of splurging on an album project--renting a couple of channels of Neve.
Given the affordable prices of some of the newer 1073 clones it isn't too far to reach to get one of the recent variations of that sound.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,937
Member is Online
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2018 8:02:48 GMT -6
If we are talking budget clones, your always giving up a little something, but when I think back to the early 90’s and the only option for a new 1176 was the Purple MC76 ( still the best of the best 1176 clones IMHO) and you can now have numerous options under $750. It’s a very interesting time. The only thing is if you figure the old defacto standard for being a “real studio” was 2 1176’s 2 la2’s some Neve & API , not to mention a 87, means now some kid can get to this point for under $2k and his crappy apartment bedroom on paper is now even more of a studio. Granted 35 years ago I paid $350 to get my first DBX160a now it will buy a KT 76 ? Man I’m kind of Jealous. I still see myself doing more DIY, I like having a personal connection to my gear besides the mental and physical therapy a build gives me, plus the chance to see if Botique parts make a difference. The 2 things the world of expensive classics and clones did for use were. 1. Coming up you had to learn how to make the best of working with Crap. The best AE’s I know all started with very lowly gear and had to develop chops. Example well every time I see a thread in that purple colored place about “vintage Tascam Model 3” well I have no desire to go back to the limited headroom bacon sizzle -10 dB I/O crappy RCA jack world. They sucked then most suck more now! Hell its where I learned you often had to crimp RCA plugs so they made decent contact with the jacks. But learning to deal with those limitations and overcome the sonic and routing limitations made me a better AE.
2. If every kid can save his allowance and get a decent imitation of a classic everything will sound the same. We will call this the Doug factor named after our own EMRR, Listen to Doug’s stuff it has it’s own sonic footprint stamped out by his unique gear collection. How much of his taste do you think was fueled by picking up this less fashionable tube gear for next to nothing? I’ll bet it was what pointed him in that direction and fed his quest over the years.
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Post by Ward on Nov 29, 2018 8:06:09 GMT -6
It really is a lack of imagination, in a market that isn't really addressing an industry so much anymore, but hobbyists looking for shortcuts. Really? I love all types of instruments and gear--new and innovative, weird old crap, circuit bent, boutique high end, DIY, and the classics such as Gibson 45s, Radio King snares, u47s and LA2As. There's a reason that the classics are classic, and wanting to use some of those tools in the pursuit of making great music is not a shortcut. Many of us that are building CAPI pres or buying Klark Teknik outboard gear are working professionals on a budget, or young engineers building their first studio. And sure, there are hobbyist out there too. But I don't begrudge or belittle them because they help keep the market afloat and they love their hobby. If it's innovation and imagination you seek look no further than the amazing plugins that are being produced these days. Oh boy . . . some are going to disagree with this bold assertion but, screw it, here goes!! Some (SOME) of the 1176 clones are actually BETTER than the originals! At least now they are. Originals wear out over time, and even if you get an original that ios well maintained and has been repaired over the years as needed, still usually not as good as one of the top clones, such as Audio-Scape's (Chris Yetter's) or Mohog's clones. The top-end clone makers are making them to original specs with fantastic components. And I've owned (and used other people's) originals. MOST were noisy and on the verge of catching alight at any time, and sometimes there have been fires. So this is a legitimate thread. This is getting the magic of the originals but made with incredible care and built-in dependability. OK, fire away . . . take your best shot, show we what you got, buddy, I'm not afraid.
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