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Post by drbill on Oct 13, 2018 21:02:28 GMT -6
Thanks for that and no worries man. It didn’t even occur to me that the MKII’s would still be shipping with reversed polarity after this was revealed way back with the very first run of the MKI’s. But either way, easy enough for me to fix (but good to know it’s already taken care of!) This SA2A sounds great! So I got curious about my SA-2A because of reading this thread, so this afternoon I did some tests. Based on these waveforms, it looks to me like my SA-2A has reversed polarity, too. Grrr. The attached waveforms are from taking a kick sample and routing it out to a few pieces of gear and back in: 1. SA-2A 2. Silver Bullet 3. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 2 4. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 1 Only the SA-2A appears to be reverse polarity. stam any thoughts about how I might remedy the problem? I do not trust my soldering skills enough to attempt the repair myself. But I'd really rather not have to ship it, either. Aren't there a couple local (or local-ish) folks from RGO around the Durham/Raleigh, NC area who are more skilled in these matters than myself? Despite the polarity miswiring, I want to say that I love the way my SA-2A sounds. It has tons of vibe. Really nice work on the sonics, Joshua. That Silver Bullet waveform looks SWEET!!! <thumbsup>
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Post by ragan on Oct 13, 2018 21:52:07 GMT -6
Yeah dude, just switch the pins!
Will be back to correct polarity in a couple minutes.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 13, 2018 22:59:46 GMT -6
ragan jeremygillespieI wondered if it might be that simple. I just wasn't sure after Josh mentioned transformers and stuff. Now, alas, I don't even have a soldering iron in the house at the moment. This seems like a wonderful opportunity to ameliorate that. But until I can fix it for good (which may be awhile), would one of these do the trick? <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O4L?pf_rd_p=a526cdf5-1d83-4a09-853e-0767afc685eb&pf_rd_r=V0E1KB6RV1RTSXPWVAJF> Despite my inexperience with a soldering iron, I've gotten pretty damn good at changing the sterile caps on a two-lumen central line, flushing the lines, starting an IV bag of micafungin, starting a portable pump of tacrolimus, waiting one hour, removing the micafungin, flushing that line again, starting a bag of magnesium, waiting another hour, flushing both lumens again, and heparin-locking both lines. All on a squirmy two-year-old. Every single night. And every morning, sans tacro and cap change. So it seems like it's finally time for me to add soldering to the ol' repertoire. Thanks, everyone!! (and seriously, would that little polarity flipper XLR connector work until I can get around to getting a soldering gun??)
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Post by ragan on Oct 13, 2018 23:25:32 GMT -6
the other mark williams You're way beyond the necessary tacit abilities needed to swap these pins, my friend. You can get a serviceable soldering iron for like $20. In this case, you'll literally just be holding the tip of the soldering iron against a little cup of solder that the wire end is in until it turns to liquid and pulling the wire out. Then do it with the other one and heat them back up and re-insert (swapping their positions). But yeah, that little phase inverter will be doing the exact same thing. But then you'll have a wonky cylinder sticking out of your gear and you'll lose the $8 that could have gone towards your soldering iron, which you'd be able to use for a million other things. But yes, if you want the polarity back to normal without soldering, that thing is your ticket.
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Post by donr on Oct 14, 2018 0:00:41 GMT -6
I decided a while back never to review a product that I would end up trashing. It’s one of the reasons I’ve had a few pieces in my studio that never really got their own video. For example I debated doing a shoot out video with some really nice clones vs the VMS emulations, but decided against it as it was apparent that the video would piss off a lot of people after I put it next to a FleA 47. Unfortunately it’s all politics and poker. Me neither. I wrote some gear reviews for Guitar For The Practicing Musician in decades past. If I couldn't say much good about a product, I passed on reviewing it. I won't say anything good about a product either, unless it's my personal experience. I respect people giving honest comparison to competing products, but many videos I see on youtube are obviously seeking to slag or diminish one product over a competitor's, and that's across all categories of things for sale. I'm a fan of the gear and people who make and use the gear, for me I don't have to concern myself with the marketing end of it and what people who do that have to deal with.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 14, 2018 5:49:02 GMT -6
ragan jeremygillespieI wondered if it might be that simple. I just wasn't sure after Josh mentioned transformers and stuff. Now, alas, I don't even have a soldering iron in the house at the moment. This seems like a wonderful opportunity to ameliorate that. But until I can fix it for good (which may be awhile), would one of these do the trick? <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O4L?pf_rd_p=a526cdf5-1d83-4a09-853e-0767afc685eb&pf_rd_r=V0E1KB6RV1RTSXPWVAJF> Despite my inexperience with a soldering iron, I've gotten pretty damn good at changing the sterile caps on a two-lumen central line, flushing the lines, starting an IV bag of micafungin, starting a portable pump of tacrolimus, waiting one hour, removing the micafungin, flushing that line again, starting a bag of magnesium, waiting another hour, flushing both lumens again, and heparin-locking both lines. All on a squirmy two-year-old. Every single night. And every morning, sans tacro and cap change. So it seems like it's finally time for me to add soldering to the ol' repertoire. Thanks, everyone!! (and seriously, would that little polarity flipper XLR connector work until I can get around to getting a soldering gun??) I’ll echo what ragan said, super easy - you got this. I wouldn’t throw money into that polarity gadget. If nothing else, flip the polarity in your DAW. Ultimately polarity shouldn’t matter unless your dealing with a multi-mic’d source.
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2018 9:02:04 GMT -6
Actually, polarity does matter. At least to some. There's a few engineers who I know that can absolutely hear it on things like Kick, bass, etc.. They check absolute system polarity on the studio monitors every time they come in. YMMV.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 14, 2018 10:15:50 GMT -6
Actually, polarity does matter. At least to some. There's a few engineers who I know that can absolutely hear it on things like Kick, bass, etc.. They check absolute system polarity on the studio monitors every time they come in. YMMV. Right, but aren’t those traditionally multi-mic’d sources? Would it matter on a vocal track?
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Post by jtc111 on Oct 14, 2018 10:38:03 GMT -6
I don't know a whole lot about how gear is wired. Is there an industry standard for polarity or is what the other mark williams found commonplace and to be expected?
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Post by pope on Oct 14, 2018 10:48:31 GMT -6
Actually, polarity does matter. At least to some. There's a few engineers who I know that can absolutely hear it on things like Kick, bass, etc.. They check absolute system polarity on the studio monitors every time they come in. YMMV. Right, but aren’t those traditionally multi-mic’d sources? Would it matter on a vocal track? It would matter on single sources also. It has to do with how the speaker reacts (i.e in which direction the membrane moves) or at least that's what many engineers believe. Something with short transients like a kick or a snare is a good example. STAM, it would be nice if you let your customers know about this issue.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,967
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Post by ericn on Oct 14, 2018 10:55:25 GMT -6
ragan jeremygillespieI wondered if it might be that simple. I just wasn't sure after Josh mentioned transformers and stuff. Now, alas, I don't even have a soldering iron in the house at the moment. This seems like a wonderful opportunity to ameliorate that. But until I can fix it for good (which may be awhile), would one of these do the trick? <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O4L?pf_rd_p=a526cdf5-1d83-4a09-853e-0767afc685eb&pf_rd_r=V0E1KB6RV1RTSXPWVAJF> Despite my inexperience with a soldering iron, I've gotten pretty damn good at changing the sterile caps on a two-lumen central line, flushing the lines, starting an IV bag of micafungin, starting a portable pump of tacrolimus, waiting one hour, removing the micafungin, flushing that line again, starting a bag of magnesium, waiting another hour, flushing both lumens again, and heparin-locking both lines. All on a squirmy two-year-old. Every single night. And every morning, sans tacro and cap change. So it seems like it's finally time for me to add soldering to the ol' repertoire. Thanks, everyone!! (and seriously, would that little polarity flipper XLR connector work until I can get around to getting a soldering gun??) If your afraid of screwing something up inside the unit just wire flip the pins on some cables and label them as polarity inverse.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 14, 2018 12:12:04 GMT -6
Actually, polarity does matter. At least to some. There's a few engineers who I know that can absolutely hear it on things like Kick, bass, etc.. They check absolute system polarity on the studio monitors every time they come in. YMMV. Right, but aren’t those traditionally multi-mic’d sources? Would it matter on a vocal track? It absolutely matters on a vocal track. Lots of science and studies on that subject over many decades.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 14, 2018 12:16:30 GMT -6
Yes, otherwise you have to sing backwards! Chris
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Post by bigbone on Oct 14, 2018 12:43:07 GMT -6
It doesn't matter if you listen to the track in solo. any track, it will matter when you listen to all the tracks, that's why you go to listen in context of the song.You will ear if you got polarity issue. !!!!
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Post by EmRR on Oct 14, 2018 12:46:11 GMT -6
It doesn't matter if you listen to the track in solo. any track, it will matter when you listen to all the tracks, that's why you go to listen in context of the song.You will ear if you got polarity issue. !!!! Not true. Intelligibility of human speech goes down with polarity reversed.
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Post by drbill on Oct 14, 2018 13:23:28 GMT -6
Actually, polarity does matter. At least to some. There's a few engineers who I know that can absolutely hear it on things like Kick, bass, etc.. They check absolute system polarity on the studio monitors every time they come in. YMMV. Right, but aren’t those traditionally multi-mic’d sources? Would it matter on a vocal track? No. Not multi-mic'd sources. That would be an out of phase problem, not just a polarity reversal problem. Hey, I'm just the messenger. There are guys who are crazy insane about all their sounds "pushing forwards" instead of "pulling backwards". Multi grammy / platinum record guys that I know. As always, YMMV.
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 14, 2018 13:34:47 GMT -6
Right, but aren’t those traditionally multi-mic’d sources? Would it matter on a vocal track? No. Not multi-mic'd sources. That would be an out of phase problem, not just a polarity reversal problem. Hey, I'm just the messenger. There are guys who are crazy insane about all their sounds "pushing forwards" instead of "pulling backwards". Multi grammy / platinum record guys that I know. As always, YMMV. Right on. Learning moment for me.
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 14, 2018 13:55:30 GMT -6
No. Not multi-mic'd sources. That would be an out of phase problem, not just a polarity reversal problem. Hey, I'm just the messenger. There are guys who are crazy insane about all their sounds "pushing forwards" instead of "pulling backwards". Multi grammy / platinum record guys that I know. As always, YMMV. Right on. Learning moment for me. I remember a particularly insane thread over at the purple site years ago with a, shall we say, discussion over absolute polarity. I say "discussion," but it was really like two people going around and around with Bob Katz, Bob Ohlsson, Lagerfeldt, Dave Collins, and several other great mastering guys. It was entertaining until it wasn't. If I remember correctly (it may have even been from that thread...), Bob Ohlsson has mentioned RCA's original choice of "Pin 3 Hot" as being a pretty arbitrary choice at the time. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, Bob Olhsson.) Obviously, most manufacturers over the years ended up going the other way. But not all.
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Post by reddirt on Oct 14, 2018 14:01:51 GMT -6
Just flip it in the DAW (if it's not worrying while record monitoring). Cheers, Ross
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Post by ragan on Oct 14, 2018 14:09:11 GMT -6
Hmmm...
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2018 14:41:46 GMT -6
To ear is human, to spell correctly divine (ere) Sorry, my Mom was a spelling Queen!
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2018 14:42:51 GMT -6
It will take 5 minutes tops to resolder the connections, set and forget !!
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 14, 2018 16:09:56 GMT -6
Thanks for that and no worries man. It didn’t even occur to me that the MKII’s would still be shipping with reversed polarity after this was revealed way back with the very first run of the MKI’s. But either way, easy enough for me to fix (but good to know it’s already taken care of!) This SA2A sounds great! So I got curious about my SA-2A because of reading this thread, so this afternoon I did some tests. Based on these waveforms, it looks to me like my SA-2A has reversed polarity, too. Grrr. The attached waveforms are from taking a kick sample and routing it out to a few pieces of gear and back in: 1. SA-2A 2. Silver Bullet 3. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 2 4. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 1 Only the SA-2A appears to be reverse polarity. stam any thoughts about how I might remedy the problem? I do not trust my soldering skills enough to attempt the repair myself. But I'd really rather not have to ship it, either. Aren't there a couple local (or local-ish) folks from RGO around the Durham/Raleigh, NC area who are more skilled in these matters than myself? Despite the polarity miswiring, I want to say that I love the way my SA-2A sounds. It has tons of vibe. Really nice work on the sonics, Joshua. Just turn it upside down in the rack...
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Post by the other mark williams on Oct 14, 2018 16:35:51 GMT -6
So I got curious about my SA-2A because of reading this thread, so this afternoon I did some tests. Based on these waveforms, it looks to me like my SA-2A has reversed polarity, too. Grrr. The attached waveforms are from taking a kick sample and routing it out to a few pieces of gear and back in: 1. SA-2A 2. Silver Bullet 3. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 2 4. Stam 1073 MPA Ch 1 Only the SA-2A appears to be reverse polarity. stam any thoughts about how I might remedy the problem? I do not trust my soldering skills enough to attempt the repair myself. But I'd really rather not have to ship it, either. Aren't there a couple local (or local-ish) folks from RGO around the Durham/Raleigh, NC area who are more skilled in these matters than myself? Despite the polarity miswiring, I want to say that I love the way my SA-2A sounds. It has tons of vibe. Really nice work on the sonics, Joshua. Just turn it upside down in the rack... Or ask vocalists to stand on their head?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 14, 2018 16:41:20 GMT -6
Or only hire ones from Oz, just ask Wiz !
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