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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 14:59:27 GMT -6
Man that is tough. Really sorry to hear about this. It looked like a wonderful studio. I had pretty much the same thing happen a couple years back. I'm sure you'll work something out! Sending positive thoughts your way! Did you end up in a new spot? Better than before?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 15:01:32 GMT -6
Damn dude. That sucks. Good luck finding a place. All I got to say is buy something, even if it's a house somewhere, but make sure zoning will let you run a business out of it. A few years ago a couple folks wanted me to join them in building out a studio. They wanted to lease/rent and then build out. I told them I wouldn't possibly be interested unless they bought a building or space, for this reason alone. I never really heard back from them after I gave them my estimate on costs and suggests on locations. I know that the primary guy finally leased a space and is building out currently, but with properties around here being sold for redevelopment at record pace, I'm not sure how long he'll be there either. Lease/rent and building out isn't a very appealing option. The landlord would probably pull the plug once I got built out and rent to some other studio. Lost a little faith in humanity over this.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 15:05:14 GMT -6
Beautiful spot, but it feels like it was designed by someone who never ran a working studio before. Definitely gives me some ideas though.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 9, 2022 15:09:23 GMT -6
I'd guess that the Greybox studio must have cost $150,000, and he already owned the property. I wonder what his costs were..
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Post by jmoose on Jan 9, 2022 16:23:04 GMT -6
Got some devistating news this week. Landlord is giving me the boot. His business is also in my building and he needs to expand his business into my space, so I'm out. Gotta be out the door on March 1. That's a buzzmer and I can relate. Happened to me twice. Once I saw the writing on the wall & found another space before getting the move out notice... other time was a surprise and my "big" gear was in storage for over a year while I worked out of other shops. What kinda lease did you have with the landlord? Month to month or yearly? If you had time remaining and he gave you 90 days (or less) to vacate you might be due money back.. I'm looking to relocate, buy & build myself in the future... possibly in New England but not in the immediate future. More of a long term plan that's on simmer. Having built a few studios including in Massachusetts... multi room buildout is in the $100-150k range for materials & permits. That's not including land or exterior shell of the building. And assuming you can do at least some of the labor yourself otherwise double those costs. Building a studio is like building a small house, only with more material & attention to details. Worst is permits. Permits are a time suck anywhere. Even if you had drawings, architect approved blueprints ready yesterday it'll take at least 6-8 months to get approved and have things... contractors & material deliveries & such lined up. Nobody moves until all plans are approved by the town/state. Realistically ground up build, even with a prefab building (assuming your property is zoned for one!) - Going to be at least a year from approved plans to moving in. Probably longer.
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Post by drbill on Jan 9, 2022 16:26:54 GMT -6
Jesse - sorry to hear about your bad luck. There's not much anyone can say when your entire dream gets yanked out from under you. But IME, long term, these things work out, and they work out for the best. I've had many setbacks in my career, and looking back with perspective, although unbelievably stressful and painful, I've gained ground with all of them. Keep positive, work hard, keep looking. And yes, keep praying! As for building costs - if you're building a double walled, free standing, truly isolated stick built recording studio structure with treatment, it's going to be mega expensive right now. I'd guess minimum $250-300 a sq ft. Materials are scarce, and zooming up in price. Contractors are busier than busy and because of that, super expensive. Real estate is astronomical right now, although interest rates are still excellent. Owning is (IMO) the only long term solution. From what you've mentioned, I would be pursuing a metal building with interior build out at your mom's property. Or if you could find it, a B room to lease out at one of the local studios. (Preferably a studio that OWNS their own property) Best of luck!!!
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Post by stratboy on Jan 9, 2022 16:51:22 GMT -6
”I'm just so sad about the amount of time, effort, and hours that I've put in, only to have the rug pulled out from under me. It's really hard to swallow.”
Jesse, it’s my life experience that absolutely nothing is wasted. You’re going to use everything you’ve learned to come out of this in a better than ever state of life. Optimism is so powerful when mixed with determination.
As for practical matters, lots of good advice here. 1. Own the property/building. Real estate is a good investment at any time in the economic cycle, especially when you will be there for 20+ years. 2. Definitely look at used prefab metal buildings or prefab garages. Even modular homes. Matt McGlynn of Roswell Audio built a studio in a modular building. He documented it on his website (or maybe on microphone hacks site). He’s a drummer, too. #1 priority, IMO, is to get a space of your own, no matter how raw. Build outs can happen over time as funds permit. 3. You can do this. Never give up on your dream. There is benefit here somewhere that you don’t see yet, but it will come out. Best!
Edit: if you can’t buy, mom’s property, where you at least have a friendly landlord is a good option. Everything said about permits and zoning is true. Make SURE you can put a building there.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 9, 2022 16:52:32 GMT -6
Obvious solution is for your mom to retire to Boca and let you convert her house to a badass studio. Problem solved!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:21:05 GMT -6
Jesse This absolutely sucks, but it is the problem with renting a space, we really should be all about the real estate! Besides the build out of a prefab building( best long term but expensive solution) is to see if anyone in the area has a “B” room that isn’t seeing any traffic and might sublet. Not ideal but it might by some time, and build a relationship. Now back to my COVID recovery. No doubt. Be well brother. I had Covid over Christmas. Didn't even get to see my kids till yesterday. Hope you make a full recovery like I did.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:22:07 GMT -6
This is life. You didn't get this far the first time without strength and perseverance. Believe in yourself and the resilience of the human spirit. You got this. Thanks brother. How's the touring business? Starting to recover up there yet?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:35:53 GMT -6
Got some devistating news this week. Landlord is giving me the boot. His business is also in my building and he needs to expand his business into my space, so I'm out. Gotta be out the door on March 1. That's a buzzmer and I can relate. Happened to me twice. Once I saw the writing on the wall & found another space before getting the move out notice... other time was a surprise and my "big" gear was in storage for over a year while I worked out of other shops. What kinda lease did you have with the landlord? Month to month or yearly? If you had time remaining and he gave you 90 days (or less) to vacate you might be due money back.. I'm looking to relocate, buy & build myself in the future... possibly in New England but not in the immediate future. More of a long term plan that's on simmer. Having built a few studios including in Massachusetts... multi room buildout is in the $100-150k range for materials & permits. That's not including land or exterior shell of the building. And assuming you can do at least some of the labor yourself otherwise double those costs. Building a studio is like building a small house, only with more material & attention to details. Worst is permits. Permits are a time suck anywhere. Even if you had drawings, architect approved blueprints ready yesterday it'll take at least 6-8 months to get approved and have things... contractors & material deliveries & such lined up. Nobody moves until all plans are approved by the town/state. Realistically ground up build, even with a prefab building (assuming your property is zoned for one!) - Going to be at least a year from approved plans to moving in. Probably longer. I was month to month at this point. Started with a 1 year lease, then month to month after. Had super cheap rent, so basically didn't talk to the landlord unless necessary. Didn't want him upping the rent if I asked for a longer lease or something. Just didn't want to rock the boat. If I can get into a full build for 100-150k, that seems like a pretty realistic number to be worthwhile. I'm fairly handy, have a couple contractor buds, and have a few handy friends too. I think a lot of the build could be self completed, so that's a plus.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:38:52 GMT -6
Jesse - sorry to hear about your bad luck. There's not much anyone can say when your entire dream gets yanked out from under you. But IME, long term, these things work out, and they work out for the best. I've had many setbacks in my career, and looking back with perspective, although unbelievably stressful and painful, I've gained ground with all of them. Keep positive, work hard, keep looking. And yes, keep praying! As for building costs - if you're building a double walled, free standing, truly isolated stick built recording studio structure with treatment, it's going to be mega expensive right now. I'd guess minimum $250-300 a sq ft. Materials are scarce, and zooming up in price. Contractors are busier than busy and because of that, super expensive. Real estate is astronomical right now, although interest rates are still excellent. Owning is (IMO) the only long term solution. From what you've mentioned, I would be pursuing a metal building with interior build out at your mom's property. Or if you could find it, a B room to lease out at one of the local studios. (Preferably a studio that OWNS their own property) Best of luck!!! Thanks Bill. I think trying to get into a B-room is a good bet, at least while I'm trying to sort out some kind of build. Even if I can set up just a small space to track acoustic instruments and vocals in the meantime and rent a better spot when I need drums, can at least keep me alive.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:39:31 GMT -6
”I'm just so sad about the amount of time, effort, and hours that I've put in, only to have the rug pulled out from under me. It's really hard to swallow.” Jesse, it’s my life experience that absolutely nothing is wasted. You’re going to use everything you’ve learned to come out of this in a better than ever state of life. Optimism is so powerful when mixed with determination. As for practical matters, lots of good advice here. 1. Own the property/building. Real estate is a good investment at any time in the economic cycle, especially when you will be there for 20+ years. 2. Definitely look at used prefab metal buildings or prefab garages. Even modular homes. Matt McGuinn of Roswell Audio built a studio in a modular building. He documented it on his website (or maybe on microphone hacks site). He’s a drummer, too. #1 priority, IMO, is to get a space of your own, no matter how raw. Build outs can happen over time as funds permit. 3. You can do this. Never give up on your dream. There is benefit here somewhere that you don’t see yet, but it will come out. Best! Edit: if you can’t buy, mom’s property, where you at least have a friendly landlord is a good option. Everything said about permits and zoning is true. Make SURE you can put a building there. Good tips. Thanks brother.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:40:49 GMT -6
Obvious solution is for your mom to retire to Boca and let you convert her house to a badass studio. Problem solved! She loves music and if I had a studio on her property, she'd never leave. 😂😂 Plus, her house doesn't have a good enough room for a live room, so I'd have to build anyway.
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Post by yotonic on Jan 9, 2022 17:46:52 GMT -6
This is life. You didn't get this far the first time without strength and perseverance. Believe in yourself and the resilience of the human spirit. You got this. Thanks brother. How's the touring business? Starting to recover up there yet? We came out pretty strong, just now starting to see some cancellations mainly because of tour personnel getting COVID. We've had free testing at all of the shows which was working well until Omicron.
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Post by stratboy on Jan 9, 2022 17:50:06 GMT -6
Here’s the link to the blog post Matt McGlynn wrote about converting a double wide. You can pick them up for low $$$ used and moved to your site. Interior condition doesn’t matter since you’re going to gut it. Exterior integrity does. recordinghacks.com/2013/09/18/studio-remodel-part-i/
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 9, 2022 17:56:12 GMT -6
Thanks brother. How's the touring business? Starting to recover up there yet? We came out pretty strong, just now starting to see some cancellations mainly because of tour personnel getting COVID. We've had free testing at all of the shows which was working well until Omicron. Omicron seems to be flying around like mad right now. EVERYONE seems to be grabbing it.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 9, 2022 18:30:26 GMT -6
We came out pretty strong, just now starting to see some cancellations mainly because of tour personnel getting COVID. We've had free testing at all of the shows which was working well until Omicron. Omicron seems to be flying around like mad right now. EVERYONE seems to be grabbing it. I got the 'Cron a few days ago along with my wife and my dad. Was very mild thankfully. Was out of commission for about a day and a half with what I would characterize as "mild flu or very bad cold" level symptoms. Feeling better today (day three) though quite drained. Hopefully this is near the end!
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Post by lpedrum on Jan 9, 2022 18:42:24 GMT -6
Really sorry to hear this, especially from a fellow New Englander! At the risk of sounding simplistic I think there are two ways to have a studio these days--own the building outright or set yourself up to be nimble to move on with minimal financial loss when needed. Option B usually eliminates expensive build outs and a swanky decor. But a lot of music can be made renting single use rooms using gear, connectivity, and room treatment that can move with you. With the music industry the way it is right now I'd rather invest in a portable vocal booth or gobos than make expensive improvements to someone else's property. If a long term solution seems impossible right now maybe opt for the "light footprint" approach. You can make any space your own. And even if you're not looking to be there long term clients won't make that distinction--they'll just be happy to be in a studio with you making great music!
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 9, 2022 19:43:46 GMT -6
Jesse - sorry to hear about your bad luck. There's not much anyone can say when your entire dream gets yanked out from under you. But IME, long term, these things work out, and they work out for the best. I've had many setbacks in my career, and looking back with perspective, although unbelievably stressful and painful, I've gained ground with all of them. Keep positive, work hard, keep looking. And yes, keep praying! As for building costs - if you're building a double walled, free standing, truly isolated stick built recording studio structure with treatment, it's going to be mega expensive right now. I'd guess minimum $250-300 a sq ft. Materials are scarce, and zooming up in price. Contractors are busier than busy and because of that, super expensive. Real estate is astronomical right now, although interest rates are still excellent. Owning is (IMO) the only long term solution. From what you've mentioned, I would be pursuing a metal building with interior build out at your mom's property. Or if you could find it, a B room to lease out at one of the local studios. (Preferably a studio that OWNS their own property) Best of luck!!! Prices are nuts. We are building a new building with an Atmos mastering room. Another mix room and two video suites in them. Plus offices. Really expensive, more than we were expecting and we were expecting expensive
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 21:08:52 GMT -6
That sucks. Renting a space is tough. Everything is getting redeveloped into cookie cutter condos for the Panera Breading of America.
The sad part is the industry is still in the toilet, covid killed even more small venues, and there's another real estate bubble waiting to pop.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 21:21:30 GMT -6
Really sorry to hear this, especially from a fellow New Englander! At the risk of sounding simplistic I think there are two ways to have a studio these days--own the building outright or set yourself up to be nimble to move on with minimal financial loss when needed. Option B usually eliminates expensive build outs and a swanky decor. But a lot of music can be made renting single use rooms using gear, connectivity, and room treatment that can move with you. With the music industry the way it is right now I'd rather invest in a portable vocal booth or gobos than make expensive improvements to someone else's property. If a long term solution seems impossible right now maybe opt for the "light footprint" approach. You can make any space your own. And even if you're not looking to be there long term clients won't make that distinction--they'll just be happy to be in a studio with you making great music! Yeah Mobile/transportable rigs seem to be the way forward. Multichannel utilitarian gear or racks over special pieces except for a few pieces. More are moving ITB as plugins get better but a the selection of great ones is still pretty pitiful vs analog. Monitor speakers with computer modeled waveguides or cthat work in worse rooms are getting more common but they're not really better than they were a a few years ago or better than the more traditional speakers. Hopefully Kali will produce a successor to the sick JBL 708.
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Post by sean on Jan 9, 2022 23:34:46 GMT -6
The studio I worked at for a decade closed in 2020, property was sold and they gave us the boot.
It was stressful…we had a tornado in Nashville in March, then everything shut down…but a new opportunity presented itself and it’s been amazing…I was worried that being 20 minutes north of the city would scare people off but it’s been busier than ever.
Your clients will follow you…it’s not the building it’s the people.
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Post by jampa on Jan 10, 2022 0:59:41 GMT -6
Sincerely wishing you all the best
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Post by keymod on Jan 10, 2022 4:42:29 GMT -6
Jesse, if you can do 150k for a buildout you'd be better off to put that money as a down payment on a property. If you need to do drums in the meantime, come to my place.
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