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Post by svart on Jan 24, 2021 23:07:17 GMT -6
I unplugged the mixer from the system today. It hasn't been turned on in months. Started pulling channels out so I can actually move the frame off the desk and replace the desk with a smaller one.
I'll be rewiring the patchbay with the rack gear inputs normalled to the DAC outputs, interruptible by plugging in the preamps and the rack gear outputs going to a separate patch bank to patch to ADC inputs.
Honestly I don't see using the rack gear much anymore but I can't bring myself to sell most of it.
End of an era.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2021 0:29:24 GMT -6
I understand that, although I had a smaller investment. Not an easy decision.
I kind of let the market decide and when I got an offer on my desk that I knew likely going to be as good as it was going to get: packed it and shipped it, then sold interface and almost everything else in terms of OB.
Sometimes, you just have to turn the page.
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Post by ragan on Jan 25, 2021 0:50:39 GMT -6
"On a long and lonesome highway, east of Omaha..."
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 25, 2021 1:05:01 GMT -6
I unplugged the mixer from the system today. It hasn't been turned on in months. Started pulling channels out so I can actually move the frame off the desk and replace the desk with a smaller one. I'll be rewiring the patchbay with the rack gear inputs normalled to the DAC outputs, interruptible by plugging in the preamps and the rack gear outputs going to a separate patch bank to patch to ADC inputs. Honestly I don't see using the rack gear much anymore but I can't bring myself to sell most of it. End of an era. I forget what console you were using, Chris?
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Post by wiz on Jan 25, 2021 1:07:17 GMT -6
Alesisx32
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 25, 2021 6:09:42 GMT -6
My console has been a drink holder for more than a year now. Pretty expensive cupholder but I still like looking at it with fond memories.
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Post by keymod on Jan 25, 2021 6:23:02 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 7:59:14 GMT -6
Being removed. New desk being built in the background.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 8:15:18 GMT -6
Alesis X2.. But close! It's been a great mixer besides all the love and work hardware mixers need to keep working. It took a while to get over the "need hardware to be competitive" or "need hardware to give me the tones I hear on records".. Neither of which is true, but the hardware was a great tool for me over the years, but like anything else, as you learn and grow your needs and desires change. I made the realization that I've been conflating having hardware gear that others did not with having some kind of leg up on the competition.. Which is untrue. Many of my peers and competitors have minimal setups and sound better. I think what really drove my decisions were twofold. One was the recall ability and not having to repatch and reset everything between songs or sessions. HUGE time saver. Second was the neverending "What is that noise?" and having to track down something in the system like a tarnished insert point behind the mixer, or some piece of gear that started to go bad and need service. It never failed to happen right when I needed to be working.. Last big session I had things went bad due to a iffy connection and it made me look like amateur hour when a band member said to the singer "wow, this never happens at your house"..
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2021 8:27:34 GMT -6
Your two concerns are valid, analog takes time and you have the physical degradation over time of each connection, neither are true of digital.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 8:37:53 GMT -6
Your two concerns are valid, analog takes time and you have the physical degradation over time of each connection, neither are true of digital. Well, when you have a mixer and a dozen pieces of outboard patched into inserts with roughly 50ft of cabling between all of it plus another handful of effects sends and returns and the noise floor ends up around -45dB.. Yeah, the noise was a big factor too. People don't realize how much it compounds when you have a number of compressors and things on busses and main channels all doing makeup gain, etc. Each piece might have a noise floor down in the -70 to -90db range but some makeup gain, then some fader gain, then some EQ gain, then some bus gain and another stage of compression and makeup gain then some main fader gain, another compressor plus makeup gain, etc.. However, I wouldn't say that the actual fidelity is any better. It sounds pretty identical in overall fidelity. The mixer itself had a ~200KHz bandwidth and most of the gear had 100KHz+ so there wasn't ever much rolloff.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2021 8:44:24 GMT -6
All true.
I still miss my outboard but appreciate the convenience of my new system and the money in my pocket.
I am focussed on a few front end key pieces: mikes, pres snd comp for tracking.
Best of both worlds !
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Post by drbill on Jan 25, 2021 12:42:45 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 12:51:25 GMT -6
I'll new ways to agonize over recording and mixing I'm sure. LOL
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 25, 2021 13:04:37 GMT -6
Ah, we can that fun !
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Post by drbill on Jan 25, 2021 13:09:43 GMT -6
I'll new ways to agonize over recording and mixing I'm sure. LOL Haha!! Of course! Personally, I wouldn't lament the X2, but I'd sure suggest holding on to your outboard.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 25, 2021 13:10:53 GMT -6
It's very interesting to observe these conversations. I personally have been all digital until recently. That means 2007 ish to now. I feel like I am starting to go OTB when more and more are going ITB. Kind of gives me pause. However, I do like mixing hands on with HW and there do seem to be sonic benefits(aside from noise in which plugs win).
I just did my first client mix with 6 inserts. I wrote down my recall notes but I didn't want to touch anything while this mix was happening which was for the last two weeks(revisions and emails back and forth etc). It's just not as congruent with how people work these days. Between clients, recalls between songs every 20 mins... tough.
The dream is you mix it down with the client present(or not) in one fell swoop and move on. The double edged sword of being able to be so accurate with digital is that the client knows that you can do something, or they *think* you can do ANYTHING. So you get revisions for "the lip click sound at 2:13" etc and will be recalling mixes for small things.
If the software sounded AS good, it would be no contest now. End of story. Tactile sense of mixing be damned.
So I can't fault anyone for going more ITB. I may end up doing that after my experiment OTB. I've never lived that way and I want the experience.
So, onward and upward, dude. Looking at it purely from a business standpoint, I'd say ITB is the way to go.
I will, for now however, keep building outboard to track with. Because the more I do the lifting during tracking, the less mixing I have to do, which is always great. But then again, with unison being pretty decent sounding...
Sorry to rant. It's just that no one else in my life wants to hear this haha :-)
Cheers, all.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 13:30:27 GMT -6
It's very interesting to observe these conversations. I personally have been all digital until recently. That means 2007 ish to now. I feel like I am starting to go OTB when more and more are going ITB. Kind of gives me pause. However, I do like mixing hands on with HW and there do seem to be sonic benefits(aside from noise in which plugs win). I just did my first client mix with 6 inserts. I wrote down my recall notes but I didn't want to touch anything while this mix was happening which was for the last two weeks(revisions and emails back and forth etc). It's just not as congruent with how people work these days. Between clients, recalls between songs every 20 mins... tough. The dream is you mix it down with the client present(or not) in one fell swoop and move on. The double edged sword of being able to be so accurate with digital is that the client knows that you can do something, or they *think* you can do ANYTHING. So you get revisions for "the lip click sound at 2:13" etc and will be recalling mixes for small things. If the software sounded AS good, it would be no contest now. End of story. Tactile sense of mixing be damned. So I can't fault anyone for going more ITB. I may end up doing that after my experiment OTB. I've never lived that way and I want the experience. So, onward and upward, dude. Looking at it purely from a business standpoint, I'd say ITB is the way to go. I will, for now however, keep building outboard to track with. Because the more I do the lifting during tracking, the less mixing I have to do, which is always great. But then again, with unison being pretty decent sounding... Sorry to rant. It's just that no one else in my life wants to hear this haha :-) Cheers, all. Back in the day you had assistants that took all the notes on all the gear's settings for recall.. Unless you're CLA and all the gear is set the same between sessions. But he still has assistants do all the busywork.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 13:32:28 GMT -6
I'll new ways to agonize over recording and mixing I'm sure. LOL Haha!! Of course! Personally, I wouldn't lament the X2, but I'd sure suggest holding on to your outboard. The X2 was a great board. Best of the medium format mixers by far, but an unneeded article in today's workflow. It'll always hold a place in my fond memories.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 25, 2021 13:40:31 GMT -6
Haha!! Of course! Personally, I wouldn't lament the X2, but I'd sure suggest holding on to your outboard. The X2 was a great board. Best of the medium format mixers by far, but an unneeded article in today's workflow. It'll always hold a place in my fond memories. You're doing all your headphone mixes with the MOTU software? How are you liking that?
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Post by drbill on Jan 25, 2021 13:56:48 GMT -6
Haha!! Of course! Personally, I wouldn't lament the X2, but I'd sure suggest holding on to your outboard. The X2 was a great board. Best of the medium format mixers by far, but an unneeded article in today's workflow. It'll always hold a place in my fond memories. I only heard the early X2's when they showed them at NAMM. They weren't passing above 20k or so. That's my only experience with them.
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Post by drbill on Jan 25, 2021 14:03:25 GMT -6
Unless you're CLA and all the gear is set the same between sessions. I'm not CLA, but this is exactly how I approach a hybrid mix environment. I only change things when ABSOLUTELY necessary. Otherwise, I leave stuff in the sweet spots I have found over the years, and treat them like "analog presets" - pushing into them with trims out front to get them into their preferred sweet spot. Best of both worlds. Recalls are virtually as easy as with plugins. I do leave a few pieces that are always up for tweaking, and those do get notated. But I always try to find a way to deal with the recall aspect ITB so I don't have to touch them.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 14:08:53 GMT -6
The X2 was a great board. Best of the medium format mixers by far, but an unneeded article in today's workflow. It'll always hold a place in my fond memories. I only heard the early X2's when they showed them at NAMM. They weren't passing above 20k or so. That's my only experience with them. Well, I can say that's not true in my testing. They were spec'd to ~180KHz and I tested mine to 150KHz or so, not that it mattered since I'm not a bat or a dog.
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Post by svart on Jan 25, 2021 14:09:55 GMT -6
Unless you're CLA and all the gear is set the same between sessions. I'm not CLA, but this is exactly how I approach a hybrid mix environment. I only change things when ABSOLUTELY necessary. Otherwise, I leave stuff in the sweet spots I have found over the years, and treat them like "analog presets" - pushing into them with trims out front to get them into their preferred sweet spot. Best of both worlds. Recalls are virtually as easy as with plugins. I do leave a few pieces that are always up for tweaking, and those do get notated. But I always try to find a way to deal with the recall aspect ITB so I don't have to touch them. I do mostly the same thing, but with templates now. Each session starts with the same template and I just drag and drop tracks to where the best chains for them are and tweak a little from there.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 25, 2021 14:27:08 GMT -6
It's very interesting to observe these conversations. I personally have been all digital until recently. That means 2007 ish to now. I feel like I am starting to go OTB when more and more are going ITB. Kind of gives me pause. However, I do like mixing hands on with HW and there do seem to be sonic benefits(aside from noise in which plugs win). I just did my first client mix with 6 inserts. I wrote down my recall notes but I didn't want to touch anything while this mix was happening which was for the last two weeks(revisions and emails back and forth etc). It's just not as congruent with how people work these days. Between clients, recalls between songs every 20 mins... tough. The dream is you mix it down with the client present(or not) in one fell swoop and move on. The double edged sword of being able to be so accurate with digital is that the client knows that you can do something, or they *think* you can do ANYTHING. So you get revisions for "the lip click sound at 2:13" etc and will be recalling mixes for small things. If the software sounded AS good, it would be no contest now. End of story. Tactile sense of mixing be damned. So I can't fault anyone for going more ITB. I may end up doing that after my experiment OTB. I've never lived that way and I want the experience. So, onward and upward, dude. Looking at it purely from a business standpoint, I'd say ITB is the way to go. I will, for now however, keep building outboard to track with. Because the more I do the lifting during tracking, the less mixing I have to do, which is always great. But then again, with unison being pretty decent sounding... Sorry to rant. It's just that no one else in my life wants to hear this haha :-) Cheers, all. Back in the day you had assistants that took all the notes on all the gear's settings for recall.. Unless you're CLA and all the gear is set the same between sessions. But he still has assistants do all the busywork. CLA I ain't. One thing that I do enjoy is my Wes Audio Prometheus. It just snaps back to each instance and recalls every time.
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