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Post by brenta on Jan 26, 2021 13:37:57 GMT -6
I just did my first client mix with 6 inserts. I wrote down my recall notes but I didn't want to touch anything while this mix was happening which was for the last two weeks(revisions and emails back and forth etc). It's just not as congruent with how people work these days. Between clients, recalls between songs every 20 mins... tough.The dream is you mix it down with the client present(or not) in one fell swoop and move on. The double edged sword of being able to be so accurate with digital is that the client knows that you can do something, or they *think* you can do ANYTHING. So you get revisions for "the lip click sound at 2:13" etc and will be recalling mixes for small things. This ^^ I definitely prefer hardware in the tracking stage - but I don’t really do a ton of tracking. Like, I still think there’s a big enough difference in tracking vocals through a hardware chain and not to keep mic pres and compressors. But like Mister Chase says, it’s impossible to make a living as a working mixer with the amount of recall that’s demanded in 2021. Now, if I were getting $1000 a mix, things would be different. But I’m not spending 30 minutes recalling what i did on Mix2 for a $200 client that may or may not change their minds in an hour. This compounds because I’m usually juggling 6-7 clients at a time. That being said, I can’t get the same bottom end on a drumbus with a software comp as I can with the AS D-Comp. so right now I’m trying to discern where I need to put my money. Do I keep a 2 bus comp when I only use it for my own stuff and a few other projects? I don’t know. Yep, the recall culture has gotten out of hand. I know there are few mixers out there who have developed systems that allow them to keep using outboard, but for me and the poor/recall hungry clients I work with, I can't consider it. Even 10 minutes of recall would be too much. A big part of the solution for me is to get as much analog as possible on the front end while tracking to get things most of the way there. That works when I both track and mix a project, but a lot of the stuff I mix is self-recorded by artists in home studios with not much gear. The real solution is plugin recallable hardware, like Wesaudio, Bettermaker, and Tegeler. I can't figure out why this stuff hasn't become more popular and why every manufacturer isn't doing it. The Distressor, for example, is already digitally controlled analog and Empirical Labs already makes plugins, so they're most of the way there. Hopefully more companies will get with the program, because I simply can't consider mixing hardware otherwise.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 26, 2021 13:51:32 GMT -6
This ^^ I definitely prefer hardware in the tracking stage - but I don’t really do a ton of tracking. Like, I still think there’s a big enough difference in tracking vocals through a hardware chain and not to keep mic pres and compressors. But like Mister Chase says, it’s impossible to make a living as a working mixer with the amount of recall that’s demanded in 2021. Now, if I were getting $1000 a mix, things would be different. But I’m not spending 30 minutes recalling what i did on Mix2 for a $200 client that may or may not change their minds in an hour. This compounds because I’m usually juggling 6-7 clients at a time. That being said, I can’t get the same bottom end on a drumbus with a software comp as I can with the AS D-Comp. so right now I’m trying to discern where I need to put my money. Do I keep a 2 bus comp when I only use it for my own stuff and a few other projects? I don’t know. Yep, the recall culture has gotten out of hand. I know there are few mixers out there who have developed systems that allow them to keep using outboard, but for me and the poor/recall hungry clients I work with, I can't consider it. Even 10 minutes of recall would be too much. A big part of the solution for me is to get as much analog as possible on the front end while tracking to get things most of the way there. That works when I both track and mix a project, but a lot of the stuff I mix is self-recorded by artists in home studios with not much gear. The real solution is plugin recallable hardware, like Wesaudio, Bettermaker, and Tegeler. I can't figure out why this stuff hasn't become more popular and why every manufacturer isn't doing it. The Distressor, for example, is already digitally controlled analog and Empirical Labs already makes plugins, so they're most of the way there. Hopefully more companies will get with the program, because I simply can't consider mixing hardware otherwise. Agree with all of that...
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Post by Guitar on Jan 26, 2021 13:53:56 GMT -6
That thing on GS was pretty interesting to me. They are about to change the name. But some people were actually QUITTING the forum because of it. I could only think that this type of person is, "Anti-Inclusive" which I think is bizarre. Not to mention who cares what it's called, why are you attached to that name, and so on. But sorry for the off topic. On topic, congratulations Chris, svart that's a big move. Your gear is really impressive so it's even more impressive to me you took this direction. I was thinking of building my own "DIY Racks that won't get used," but I'm not totally sold on it. I might do it just for the experience. Builds like yours and EMRR's are inspiring to me. If you don't mind me asking, and without going into exhaustive detail, what's the general idea of what kind of plugins, or specific plugins, that get the main use for you? You were talking about Crave EQ I just started testing that one, and I think I might buy it next month. Something like that could almost get used on every track I think. And speaking of your plugin latency, that plugin is not going to add any latency to your channel listen, so it's even more useful for a through DAW monitoring setup. I don't know if Reaper has it, but Cubase has a little window in the mixer that tells you the total latency in milliseconds added by your plugin chain. Pretty handy.
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Post by plinker on Jan 26, 2021 14:05:00 GMT -6
That thing on GS was pretty interesting to me. They are about to change the name. But some people were actually QUITTING the forum because of it. I could only think that this type of person is, "Anti-Inclusive" which I think is bizarre. Not to mention who cares what it's called, why are you attached to that name, and so on. But sorry for the off topic. On topic, congratulations Chris, svart that's a big move. Your gear is really impressive so it's even more impressive to me you took this direction. I was thinking of building my own "DIY Racks that won't get used," but I'm not totally sold on it. I might do it just for the experience. Builds like yours and EMRR's are inspiring to me. If you don't mind me asking, and without going into exhaustive detail, what's the general idea of what kind of plugins, or specific plugins, that get the main use for you? You were talking about Crave EQ I just started testing that one, and I think I might buy it next month. Something like that could almost get used on every track I think. And speaking of your plugin latency, that plugin is not going to add any latency to your channel listen, so it's even more useful for a through DAW monitoring setup. I don't know if Reaper has it, but Cubase has a little window in the mixer that tells you the total latency in milliseconds added by your plugin chain. Pretty handy. Reaper's latency handling is, unfortunately, not so good. I really wish the developer(s) would address this better in the I/O plugin. It might just be an OS thing, but it stinks on Mac.
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Post by stratboy on Jan 26, 2021 14:14:49 GMT -6
Doubting Ragan?? . Pre-show being open to public - during the setup couple of days : I was in another manufacturers booth with a high end console and monitoring system demoing a piece of music to show off the console. The music was produced and pre-recorded at my studio and last minute transferred to ADAT for demo-ing at the show. For the first time we borrowed a pair of those high Rez ADAT's instead of using DA88's. Yeah, remember those? . The new High Res ADATS. MKII or whatever they called em.... At the console manufacturers booth, the entire system had a high end clock-ish type digital whine in it. We tried all tried and tru tricks, swapped cables, lifted grounds, changed pretty much everything except the adats and - nothing. Whine wouldn't go away. Ultimately, we unplugged the ADAT's and whine gone. Old ADATs - fine IIRC. DA88's - fine. Took tapes to Alesis booth. No whine on their new ADATs. Took our borrowed ADATs that we were using to Alesis booth thinking they were faulty - no whine. Took our monitoring to Alesis booth - no whine. Jerry rigged ADATS to their monitoring in their booth - whine. On both the borrowed and their ADATS. Back and forth, back and forth narrowing the parameters one by one. It should be noted - this was the FIRST TIME THEY HAD EVER HEARD this issue with their boxes. DOH! Because during development, they were always monitoring the ADATS thru the X2 and their monitors. Conclusion by all involved : the X2 was not passing this extreme HF clocking noise through to their monitors. Pretty simple. And the last time we ever used ADAT's. We ended up using either the DA88's or normal ADATs for that show. I can't remember. To their credit, after we pointed this out to them, they did get their #@!$ together and fixed the issues. In both their consoles and ADATs. Insider info - one of my best friends was their Western Region sales manager at the time, and I did get the after the fact details. They were clueless when it happened. They couldn't believe it, but back and forth between monitoring systems, console, their ADATS, the ADATS we had borrowed, etc. proved the point to them. Aaaaaand...that's the story. Feel free to continue in disbelief!! Christ, I can imagine what a stressful pain in the ass that must have been! I think my heart rate went up just reading it. I used to exhibit at AES, NAMM and NAB. Been in similar situations during pre-show setups many times. Very, very stressful.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 26, 2021 14:26:43 GMT -6
+- 3db. Chris
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Post by svart on Jan 26, 2021 14:51:01 GMT -6
That thing on GS was pretty interesting to me. They are about to change the name. But some people were actually QUITTING the forum because of it. I could only think that this type of person is, "Anti-Inclusive" which I think is bizarre. Not to mention who cares what it's called, why are you attached to that name, and so on. But sorry for the off topic. On topic, congratulations Chris, svart that's a big move. Your gear is really impressive so it's even more impressive to me you took this direction. I was thinking of building my own "DIY Racks that won't get used," but I'm not totally sold on it. I might do it just for the experience. Builds like yours and EMRR's are inspiring to me. If you don't mind me asking, and without going into exhaustive detail, what's the general idea of what kind of plugins, or specific plugins, that get the main use for you? You were talking about Crave EQ I just started testing that one, and I think I might buy it next month. Something like that could almost get used on every track I think. And speaking of your plugin latency, that plugin is not going to add any latency to your channel listen, so it's even more useful for a through DAW monitoring setup. I don't know if Reaper has it, but Cubase has a little window in the mixer that tells you the total latency in milliseconds added by your plugin chain. Pretty handy. Plugins that result in something that I'm looking for.. Crave gives me a wide range of types of filters for general EQ work for a lot cheaper than the Fabfilter stuff, but also gives different phase models too although I haven't heard a whole lot of difference between them. Waves SSL channel mainly for broad EQ, boosting stuff that needs to poke out without sounding too astringent. Waves SSL bus compressor for anything that needs to thump when it doesn't already. Arouser for anything that needs amazingly fast squishing without any artifacts, or with artifacts if you want them. CLA76 for the 1176 grab and release, mainly for adding attack to stuff like snare. ReaVerb mainly as an IR loader for bricasti M7 IR's. Valhalla for a lot of other reverb. Soothe for cleaning up harmonically messy audio tracks with a lot of harmonic peaks that you can't control otherwise. There's a handful of others that I'm using on things too. I'm not looking for authentic tones. I'm looking for effect. I don't really care that the 1176 isn't a certain revision made by cathy on second shift in may of 1984. Does it do the attack trick? Yes? Then I'm good. All that tonehound stuff is overblown IMHO. But yes, Reaper reports driver latency and also gives you plugin latency numbers in a performance report and natively has PDC turned on however I've never bothered with the performance report before nor turned PDC off or changed any of the native offsets. I guess I've just never been interested in nitpicking these things. I think I spent all my energy nitpicking hardware over the years to finally admit that it's not worth the effort to pick those nits and that I wasted a ton of time doing so. If it's sounding good then it is good.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 26, 2021 15:12:07 GMT -6
I've been pleasantly surprised as I've built out some passive bus mixing with parallel hardware how much I've been able to leave hardware untouched, make the moves in the DAW where recall lives. I didn't really expect to be as seamless as it's been. Some moves, but not many notes to take.
Occasions where I have inserts on lots of tracks, I bump the patchbay back to inputs at the 'end' and print it back to new tracks, then recall is mostly using the track bounce instead of the original. But that can take a pile of time, less than a full recall though.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 26, 2021 15:20:32 GMT -6
That thing on GS was pretty interesting to me. They are about to change the name. But some people were actually QUITTING the forum because of it. I could only think that this type of person is, "Anti-Inclusive" which I think is bizarre. Not to mention who cares what it's called, why are you attached to that name, and so on. But sorry for the off topic. On topic, congratulations Chris, svart that's a big move. Your gear is really impressive so it's even more impressive to me you took this direction. I was thinking of building my own "DIY Racks that won't get used," but I'm not totally sold on it. I might do it just for the experience. Builds like yours and EMRR's are inspiring to me. If you don't mind me asking, and without going into exhaustive detail, what's the general idea of what kind of plugins, or specific plugins, that get the main use for you? You were talking about Crave EQ I just started testing that one, and I think I might buy it next month. Something like that could almost get used on every track I think. And speaking of your plugin latency, that plugin is not going to add any latency to your channel listen, so it's even more useful for a through DAW monitoring setup. I don't know if Reaper has it, but Cubase has a little window in the mixer that tells you the total latency in milliseconds added by your plugin chain. Pretty handy. Reaper's latency handling is, unfortunately, not so good. I really wish the developer(s) would address this better in the I/O plugin. It might just be an OS thing, but it stinks on Mac. Not Mac problem, logic’s I/o plug in nails rtl.
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Post by christopher on Jan 26, 2021 15:28:17 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him:
Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like..
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Post by Guitar on Jan 26, 2021 15:45:18 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. I bet you could get there by selecting the right drum kit, mics and so on. Lots of Decapitator in the mix, maybe a bunch of Fuse and Sound Toys plugins or similar. Tape emulation, I love those things, not ashamed to use them. And it's pretty hard not to say Leon Bridges nailed that vocal, it carries the tune. It is the tune. Along with the dirty drums, IMO. I'm sure you'd have to spend some time dialing in the vocal sound for that much grit, using a modern rig. What I'm wondering is what is your solution to those clients who want tape, but aren't willing to record to tape? What do you do with those people?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 15:52:55 GMT -6
I just did my first client mix with 6 inserts. I wrote down my recall notes but I didn't want to touch anything while this mix was happening which was for the last two weeks(revisions and emails back and forth etc). It's just not as congruent with how people work these days. Between clients, recalls between songs every 20 mins... tough.The dream is you mix it down with the client present(or not) in one fell swoop and move on. The double edged sword of being able to be so accurate with digital is that the client knows that you can do something, or they *think* you can do ANYTHING. So you get revisions for "the lip click sound at 2:13" etc and will be recalling mixes for small things. This ^^ I definitely prefer hardware in the tracking stage - but I don’t really do a ton of tracking. Like, I still think there’s a big enough difference in tracking vocals through a hardware chain and not to keep mic pres and compressors. But like Mister Chase says, it’s impossible to make a living as a working mixer with the amount of recall that’s demanded in 2021. Now, if I were getting $1000 a mix, things would be different. But I’m not spending 30 minutes recalling what i did on Mix2 for a $200 client that may or may not change their minds in an hour. This compounds because I’m usually juggling 6-7 clients at a time. That being said, I can’t get the same bottom end on a drumbus with a software comp as I can with the AS D-Comp. so right now I’m trying to discern where I need to put my money. Do I keep a 2 bus comp when I only use it for my own stuff and a few other projects? I don’t know. You need gear you can setup as in hardware insert in a template and control the send CLA style versus having to fiddle with the knobs constantly to make it not misbehave. For buses think SSL, Daking and Drawmer FET comps, DBX 160 or 164 MORE slider modded. Of course you have to want that sound on everything.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 26, 2021 16:40:24 GMT -6
Well the fully restored Mara Mci 1/2 inch 2 track is around $5 grand isn’t it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 16:40:27 GMT -6
svart I got so fed up with the MOTU AVB mixer, I bought the no latency PSP Infinistrip plinker Disable anticipative FX with hardware inserts and there are other settings that can help with UAD plugs and plugins with poorly programmed GUIs. Reaper fixed the biggest issue in 6.20. Reaper always delayed by increments of the buffer per effect but it did so accurately. Latency could really build up and overwhelm most interface drivers. Reaper finally made it on a per track basis in 6.20 so now it’s much more efficient than anything else right now. The real problem is interfaces lie to the daws, you must manually ping, and most USB and thunderbolt interface drivers are only consistent to +/- 1 sample. RME is sample accurate. But even then you must deal with sub sample variable latency as soon as you stop and start playback. It’s messy on everything. Even HDX has issues despite claims of perfection on GS. kcatthedog Logic has basic delay compensation issues going back decades. Every DAW has a different audio engine and weird peculiarities. All but Pro Tools and Reaper have boneheaded default settings that mangle audio on import.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 26, 2021 16:45:17 GMT -6
Man... I used to love doing recalls as an intern and then an assistant. Got to go up into the big room and see what the engineer was using on what, see what settings they had on their gear, MAYBE ask a few questions if the vibe in the room was right and things were winding down. Years of doing that led me to be able to recall a 72 channel SSL and 40 insert points worth of outboard gear in about an hour if I was really moving.
Makes my recall of like 8 pieces of outboard in my room childs play now haha.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 26, 2021 16:49:02 GMT -6
@ Dan what are they ?
When I was using my ob with logic I/o, it seemed to work fine ?
How complicated is it in software, to benchmark a start and return time using a ping? Are you saying the timing correction was wrong or what?
Not arguing, just want to better understand.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 17:40:37 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. Right on. The problem is these guys aren’t making music like they used to in the 60s when the artist’s arrangements to be able to play it live to get it on 4 to 8 tracks. It sounded like a record before it was on the record and the good gear just was the cherry on the top. I’ve dealt with this with metal bands. “We want to sound like X but with bass” and then you listen to X band’s demos and the later demos sound exactly like the record but with rougher, Tascam, production values You can measure plugins and build a clean fx chain that gets you 95% of the way there vintagey background timbre like well-chosen modern hardware would. Think U-he Satin on every track gainstaged and set up well, well chosen Fuse and UAD plugs, MJUC, the upcoming Goodhertz Tupe, etc. The problem is guys won’t arrange and track like the old days. You can’t do it to the grid or even a click yet a lot of them can’t tune their own drums for metal and rock ime, they often have the old gear yet sound nothing like the old bands. Mixing their projects with rented vintage gear wouldn’t even help them imo because their music and arrangements all sound like modern popular rock even if they claim to be psychedelic rock or death metal or whatever. They usually need modern digital tools, crazy multing, limiting, etc to save their ass. Give them a Tascam 388/688 and they’d be helpless despite the EQ being pretty nice
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 17:45:04 GMT -6
@ Dan what are they ? When I was using my ob with logic I/o, it seemed to work fine ? How complicated is it in software, to benchmark a start and return time using a ping? Are you saying the timing correction was wrong or what? Not arguing, just want to better understand. The hardware ping is accurate. It’s just a ping. Logic plugin and automation latency aren’t compensated for correctly. There are years old threads on Logic Pro Help and GS. Sends and bus processing break down.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 26, 2021 18:00:43 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. That’s why I stopped mixing for clients. Sounding like someone from the past in 2021 ... To me this idea hurts big time. For the rest I can do a lot ITB. Your client may forgot that this music was performed and tracked in a certain way, and the musicians had skills. If your clients performance/arrangement is far away from the above example it won’t sound like this, no matter which gear is there. To me the DAW is made for having new ideas. If I want to chase the past I need to time travel ... which is yet not possible but I am sure SS is working on that Problem too?
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 26, 2021 18:09:14 GMT -6
@ Dan what are they ? When I was using my ob with logic I/o, it seemed to work fine ? How complicated is it in software, to benchmark a start and return time using a ping? Are you saying the timing correction was wrong or what? Not arguing, just want to better understand. The hardware ping is accurate. It’s just a ping. Logic plugin and automation latency aren’t compensated for correctly. There are years old threads on Logic Pro Help and GS. Sends and bus processing break down. Had sessions with Logic with 15 I/O s and everything was compensated like expected. My guesswork is that some people need a clean install of OSX and Logic because it’s messy all over the place.
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Post by brenta on Jan 26, 2021 18:21:11 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. There was a thread in another gear forum where one of the guys involved in making this album talked about how they got the tones. Lots 50’s and 60’s gear and lots of Coil Audio. They used line amps to get the overdrive sounds, and often tracked old school style with all the musicians gathered around a U67. I think it would be pretty difficult to get an album to sound like this with new gear and plugins.
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Post by wiz on Jan 26, 2021 19:00:28 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would ever want a "mix" to sound like that! Vibe, style performance, sure... but the actual sonics of the mix... Sounds like it was mixed by the guy who built the ride cymbal...LOL The vibe is great, performance is great etc... but the actual sonics... blech!! 8) Each to their own Cheers Wiz
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Post by EmRR on Jan 26, 2021 19:15:43 GMT -6
You will be fine, the main thing is make yourself happy first. Focus on that you will love music. I was totally ITB for a few years, was very happy with a clean sound. That all changed as soon as I started getting hired for others. But then every client seemed to bring tape references. tape, tape, tape, tape. And they never liked the digital sound. They just had no interest AT ALL in actually using tape, just wanting me to get that “sound” because no other sound is good enough. But they wanted me to do it by using the latest ‘up to date’ tech, not some old junk. They were paying me, so sure.. For those thinking I didn’t go far enough ITB: I tried all the color plugins I could, they all didn’t get there. So I made my own massive plugin chains, tons of busses, sidechains, IR from all kinds of gear, even mics. Anything and everything was tried. But I just couldn’t like it. It sounded better bypassed to me. I just bring this up because one of the few clients shared with me this 2 days ago, and wishes I could dial in this sound ITB for him: Maybe some of you can get there? I’m just like.. There was a thread in another gear forum where one of the guys involved in making this album talked about how they got the tones. Lots 50’s and 60’s gear and lots of Coil Audio. They used line amps to get the overdrive sounds, and often tracked old school style with all the musicians gathered around a U67. I think it would be pretty difficult to get an album to sound like this with new gear and plugins. There's a Collins 212-A console from 1947 heavily involved too. You think Coil has a colored sound, you ain't heard a Collins 212-A! They are wide bandwidth too, it's not a lack of frequency response. Very 'relaxed' sounding. Most of this is pushed pretty hard, past what I would want to do.....but many times the client wants it 'more crunchier'.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 26, 2021 19:22:12 GMT -6
That classic song sounds like nothing after 8kHz/ 10 kHz. Put a 10- 12kHz 24db LPF on your mix bus, adjust the Q & mix thru it like tape limitations. ( or treat as if it’s going to vinyl )
Vocal all mids ( 350 Hz - 4kHz ) w either 2nd or third order distortion from over driving a gain stage.
HW or ITB Pultec the lead vocal, attenuate 100 Hz a lot between 5-9 on the dial & boost 3kHz while cutting 5 or 10KHz ( dep how mid range focused the voice is ) til that balance comes. Then post send to a parallel crush w a Fairchild/ LA2/ or 1176A if you need more mid focus & bite followed by Decapitator/ Black Box after. Use aux fader to blend w/ the lead.
The lead vox on I’m working on now has this & it sounds AMAZING! Chain: M7 blue line FET into RTZ 9762 -> WA76 -5 to -7 dB > ITB > UAD Pultec ( set like above ) > RComp - 3db > 1176 A parallel crush!
Sm7b, 47 w/ M7, 67, 87, could work or the new Redd mic. A blue line M7 capsule also will help that display that vintage mid push.
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Post by plinker on Jan 26, 2021 20:02:46 GMT -6
Reaper's latency handling is, unfortunately, not so good. I really wish the developer(s) would address this better in the I/O plugin. It might just be an OS thing, but it stinks on Mac. Not Mac problem, logic’s I/o plug in nails rtl. Right - but I was talking about the MacOs implementation of Reaper -- not the OS itself. Maybe it works properly on the Windoze implementation of Reaper.
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