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Post by indiehouse on Jan 28, 2021 13:13:20 GMT -6
So I disassembled the old desk and moved it out of the way for now and moved the new desk into place to get a feel for position.. I hate it. I had a visceral reaction to the new desk. Fung shui being what it is, it's much too small and cramped feeling. It's crazy. I couldn't even stand to sit at it for more than a minute. I feel like I need a much larger desk and to sit out further into the room, so I'm going to have to order a much larger desktop panel. I might need to remove one of my racks to get it to fit after all. Wouldn't a larger desktop have an adverse effect on your listening position, i.e. comb filtering?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 13:32:11 GMT -6
For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would ever want a "mix" to sound like that! Vibe, style performance, sure... but the actual sonics of the mix... Sounds like it was mixed by the guy who built the ride cymbal...LOL The vibe is great, performance is great etc... but the actual sonics... blech!! 8) Each to their own Cheers Wiz Because it doesn't sound exactly the same as everything else out there with the same UA, Waves, Slate plugins. Its crazy how distorted it is, I listen back sometimes and like wow.... but they were just all-in and going for it, no looking back....which I think is what makes it unique. You can just stack up plugs with no to inaudible (-90 or or below or whatever) aliasing and get a different sound. The problem is not enough of the stack up of analog type non-linearities and too many digital artifacts, eg clipping, imd, aliasing, random dynamic processing, etc. People don’t want to test plugins for bad DSP and learn their limitations before using them in a mix and then get afraid to go nuts. These guys wanted to sound like a poorly balanced old, bad recording and nailed it. They just used more expensive gear to do it for 1965 instead of 1995. Way more expensive than a Mackie and Alesis converters and maybe a Focusrite ISA or Drawmer 1960 for the money channels
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Post by svart on Jan 28, 2021 13:35:46 GMT -6
So I disassembled the old desk and moved it out of the way for now and moved the new desk into place to get a feel for position.. I hate it. I had a visceral reaction to the new desk. Fung shui being what it is, it's much too small and cramped feeling. It's crazy. I couldn't even stand to sit at it for more than a minute. I feel like I need a much larger desk and to sit out further into the room, so I'm going to have to order a much larger desktop panel. I might need to remove one of my racks to get it to fit after all. Wouldn't a larger desktop have an adverse effect on your listening position, i.e. comb filtering? Probably not much different than having 13 square feet of mixer below the speakers.. The original desk/mixer was about 3.25 ft in depth, so the listening position was more like 5ft from the speakers with most of that distance being the mixer and a drawer for keyboard and mouse. Now it will be less than 2ft, even with a much larger desk.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 28, 2021 18:56:06 GMT -6
There was this producer Warren Huart talked to who was so used to the reflection from his conosole, that when he went ITB, he has this plywood structure in front of him just to give that reflection. Thought that was pretty wild.
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Post by pfhuck on Jan 28, 2021 22:39:23 GMT -6
I haven't used a console in a looooong time. Did do live sound at a street dance a few years ago, if that counts....
Kill it on the front end. Mix in the box.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 28, 2021 22:54:45 GMT -6
Also an all-analog recording where like you said, they just went for the vibe and whatever they visioned for the songs. Huge hit though, so there's that part too. People heard it in some good way.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 29, 2021 3:38:40 GMT -6
Kill it on the front end. Mix in the box. I've gone down the same road - "add the sauce at the source" when tracking. Then mix ITB except for hardware tube compression and EQ on the stereo mix bus. Easy work flow - 99% of the tone.
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 29, 2021 3:41:21 GMT -6
There was this producer Warren Huart talked to who was so used to the reflection from his conosole, that when he went ITB, he has this plywood structure in front of him just to give that reflection. Thought that was pretty wild. I feel there's a few jokes in there. What else did he need to simulate from the past I wonder?!
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Post by drbill on Jan 29, 2021 9:45:31 GMT -6
There was this producer Warren Huart talked to who was so used to the reflection from his conosole, that when he went ITB, he has this plywood structure in front of him just to give that reflection. Thought that was pretty wild. When I was getting ready to move, I had to remove alll gear from the studio for termite tenting. After the tenting was done, I still had 2 weeks before moving, so I just put back in my speakers, and a small TV tray for my keyboards so I could keep working. The difference between NO console and console was SO dramatic, I made the decision right there to get rid of it and not have a console in the new room. After listening for 20 years behind a console, going console-less is dramatic and free-ing.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 29, 2021 10:02:01 GMT -6
There was this producer Warren Huart talked to who was so used to the reflection from his conosole, that when he went ITB, he has this plywood structure in front of him just to give that reflection. Thought that was pretty wild. When I was getting ready to move, I had to remove alll gear from the studio for termite tenting. After the tenting was done, I still had 2 weeks before moving, so I just put back in my speakers, and a small TV tray for my keyboards so I could keep working. The difference between NO console and console was SO dramatic, I made the decision right there to get rid of it and not have a console in the new room. After listening for 20 years behind a console, going console-less is dramatic and free-ing. Nice. My dream is of a "mastering style rig" with the little angled gear desk in the center, speakers at a distance wider spaced. I don't currently have the real estate for it though, that would take a big room. From what I can remember from your photos, your room is in that direction already.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 29, 2021 10:26:08 GMT -6
There was this producer Warren Huart talked to who was so used to the reflection from his conosole, that when he went ITB, he has this plywood structure in front of him just to give that reflection. Thought that was pretty wild. When I was getting ready to move, I had to remove alll gear from the studio for termite tenting. After the tenting was done, I still had 2 weeks before moving, so I just put back in my speakers, and a small TV tray for my keyboards so I could keep working. The difference between NO console and console was SO dramatic, I made the decision right there to get rid of it and not have a console in the new room. After listening for 20 years behind a console, going console-less is dramatic and free-ing. Don't you essentially have a "modular console" sitting in front of you with the racks of gear? I imagine you're still getting similar reflections with all that gear...
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Post by svart on Jan 29, 2021 10:43:54 GMT -6
Anyway, all the talks of technical stuff, I'm very interested in my own reaction to the small desk. I didn't even realize that it would matter to me as much as it did. It just felt oppressive to sit at such a small desk. It's hard to describe and even weirder to think about.
Makes me really believe in fung shui now.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 29, 2021 10:44:25 GMT -6
I thought some recommended having a slight slope to your desk, so reflections are aimed away from your direct ear of sight ! Myth ?
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Post by svart on Jan 29, 2021 12:18:46 GMT -6
I thought some recommended having a slight slope to your desk, so reflections are aimed away from your direct ear of sight ! Myth ? People recommend all kinds of things with specious reasoning. I've looked at a lot of setups from pro folks and a lot of real pros just have a desk in a marginally treated room with some speakers haphazardly placed somewhere and somehow they do great records and make money despite all the folks on forums saying it can't happen. I think it's all too easy to say "my desk isn't slanted and here's all these technical reasons that it's not my fault I'm not mixing at a pro level".
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Post by seawell on Jan 29, 2021 12:39:46 GMT -6
I think it was Mark Endert if I remember correctly. Once he moved ITB he had his desk built to the same slant as his SSL. I've spent most of my career behind a larger control surface(D command or D Control). The brief time I switched to a slate raven core station with dual MTI 2 screens I felt completely lost. I couldn't believe how different my monitors sounded when everything else in the room stayed the same. It's like the tweeters went out in both speakers(Focal Twin 6BE). The top end was so different. I spent a whole week experimenting with moving the core station, monitors, sub, acoustic panels etc using feedback from sonarworks. I'm now happily back on a D Control. I'm just way too used to the reflections and the distance I suppose. Anyway, I agree with what svart said about seeing less than ideal rooms and speaker placements work for a lot of people. Barring any huge issues, I think you just have to learn your room and you'll be fine.
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Post by christopher on Jan 29, 2021 12:43:43 GMT -6
This reminds me that a few years ago I found the most comfortable I’ve ever been doing long editing is sitting at kitchen table with a MacBook. I used headphones, I’d go to the studio for speaker balancing. It became so comfortable I just didn’t want to go to the studio to do editing anymore. I used to have desk jobs and I always hated desk/chair pain.. My table was a typical high gloss hardwood, 30” high or so, chair was solid hardwood no pillows. I did this because my kids were small and I had to keep watch, but I still needed to do work. I found I never got uncomfortable. I’d stay up until 3AM and it was fine. I figured maybe it’s because I’m a big guy and I can lay my heavy arms across the table, removing any strain on my back? That’s what I would look for in a desk, a big sturdy clear surface so I can lay my upper body on it when I get the need. A folding wooden chair for when the office chair becomes annoying. Or maybe I’m just weird, which is obvious 😂
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 29, 2021 12:56:52 GMT -6
I’ve kinda given up on my room, acoustics and my monitors, and have been almost 100% cans for quite a while.
I’ve done treatment, positioning, bought some Sonarworks 3 times, snd had a variety of good monitors.
I think our ears/ brain calibrate to anything, if you are consistent?
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Post by ragan on Jan 29, 2021 13:04:59 GMT -6
When I've had the opportunity to be in nice facilities, with very good engineers, I find that they largely ignore about half of the Audio Orthodoxy Dogma that people tend to obsess over on the forums. They get the hell to work and get the results their clients hired them to get with very little fussing around. "But...dude you've got the real deal SSL bus comp sitting in the middle of your giant SSL console...you're using the Chameleon Labs unit???" "Who cares, I like the CL one better" (that actually happened). Sure, they test stuff out during down time so they know what each piece/technique is going to do, but I'm always struck by how little they tend to care about much of the stuff we on the forums nerd out about.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 29, 2021 13:14:05 GMT -6
I’ve kinda given up on my room, acoustics and my monitors, and have been almost 100% cans for quite a while. I’ve done treatment, positioning, bought some Sonarworks 3 times, snd had a variety of good monitors. I think our ears/ brain calibrate to anything, if you are consistent? Headphones can certainly be a nice break from acoustics. I doubt many people have truly optimized acoustic environments, even people who have put some effort in it. You just get on with it. Probably true that the brain part of the ear has some sort of automatic mixer in it. For example a loud sound will get normalized after a few seconds, your brain turns it down and you get used to it. I've heard science people talk about that a few times. I mastered one of my albums on $50 Office Depot speakers at someone elses house with a free digital reaper EQ. Didn't really matter-- it worked.
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Post by drbill on Jan 29, 2021 13:51:58 GMT -6
When I was getting ready to move, I had to remove alll gear from the studio for termite tenting. After the tenting was done, I still had 2 weeks before moving, so I just put back in my speakers, and a small TV tray for my keyboards so I could keep working. The difference between NO console and console was SO dramatic, I made the decision right there to get rid of it and not have a console in the new room. After listening for 20 years behind a console, going console-less is dramatic and free-ing. Don't you essentially have a "modular console" sitting in front of you with the racks of gear? I imagine you're still getting similar reflections with all that gear... There's no way to get rid of "all" reflections. I'm using a sterling modular mastering desk, and it's designed with keeping reflections to a minimum in mind. All round, the monitoring in this room is better than the last. Quite good actually. So I'm happy. As is mentioned earlier, you can end up mixing successfully on pretty much anything if you have enough experience and feedback on it. For me, I like to remove as many "translations" as possible between the audio and my ears. Makes mixing faster, easier and more successful.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 29, 2021 13:54:06 GMT -6
I’ve kinda given up on my room, acoustics and my monitors, and have been almost 100% cans for quite a while. I’ve done treatment, positioning, bought some Sonarworks 3 times, snd had a variety of good monitors. I think our ears/ brain calibrate to anything, if you are consistent? I'm on cans for 95% of my mixing.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 29, 2021 16:31:19 GMT -6
I’ve kinda given up on my room, acoustics and my monitors, and have been almost 100% cans for quite a while. I’ve done treatment, positioning, bought some Sonarworks 3 times, snd had a variety of good monitors. I think our ears/ brain calibrate to anything, if you are consistent? I'm on cans for 95% of my mixing. Sell off all your monitors then sheesh u don’t need them Is that maybe why all your mixes/ examples I have heard have such aggressive compression? And As always your mixes sound great to stellar. Idk maybe that helps everything fighting to cut thru on tiny little transducers not meant for full scale linear bandwidth of the freq spec. I use headphones for tracking. Idk my headphones to me aren’t accurate enough to hear the minor tweaks some revisions entail.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 29, 2021 17:08:28 GMT -6
I'm on cans for 95% of my mixing. Sell off all your monitors then sheesh u don’t need them Is that maybe why all your mixes/ examples I have heard have such aggressive compression? And As always your mixes sound great to stellar. Idk maybe that helps everything fighting to cut thru on tiny little transducers not meant for full scale linear bandwidth of the freq spec. I use headphones for tracking. Idk my headphones to me aren’t accurate enough to hear the minor tweaks some revisions entail. Planning to! I use my big JBLs during tracking and the Amphions here's and there for checks. Haven't turned on my other Amphion pair, Adams, or PMCs in months. Aggressive compression is the sound I'm into. 😂😂
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Post by plinker on Jan 29, 2021 17:16:07 GMT -6
I’ve kinda given up on my room, acoustics and my monitors, and have been almost 100% cans for quite a while. I’ve done treatment, positioning, bought some Sonarworks 3 times, snd had a variety of good monitors. I think our ears/ brain calibrate to anything, if you are consistent? I'm on cans for 95% of my mixing. I’m on the can for 95% of my posting...
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Post by ragan on Jan 29, 2021 17:50:36 GMT -6
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