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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 29, 2021 17:54:46 GMT -6
Thank god the Bluetooth phone has been off!  |
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Post by svart on Feb 1, 2021 8:38:24 GMT -6
So I set up the monitors and stuff on the desk over the weekend just so I could mess around until the new, larger, desktop shows up this week. As mentioned, things sound a little different. I can't say they're vastly different, nor can I say that it's due to lack of reflections or anything like that. I think it's mainly sitting within about 2ft of the monitors rather than 5+ft away. It was a bit more revealing in the mids than before and I think I hear better up closer to the monitors when before I thought they were a little more phasey up close, which could have been the reflection from the mixer.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 1, 2021 10:41:00 GMT -6
Desk/console, the form factor makes a big difference for sure, at least it did in my room. I'm on my third setup desk-wise, having gone from a large, flat desk surface to more of a mastering setup that in the third iteration I lowered about four inches and shrunk down the width of the flat surfaces that are closest to the monitors. Really pleased with how things sound in here now.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 2, 2021 13:33:52 GMT -6
So I disassembled the old desk and moved it out of the way for now and moved the new desk into place to get a feel for position.. I hate it. I had a visceral reaction to the new desk. Fung shui being what it is, it's much too small and cramped feeling. It's crazy. I couldn't even stand to sit at it for more than a minute. I feel like I need a much larger desk and to sit out further into the room, so I'm going to have to order a much larger desktop panel. I might need to remove one of my racks to get it to fit after all. Wouldn't a larger desktop have an adverse effect on your listening position, i.e. comb filtering? It's been argued that reflective sound coming off a console is a benefit. Not sure if that's true but unless a studio is using soffit mounts, this is what happens. Most everything in the 80's was mixed with NS 10's sitting on top of a console. I'd imagine once one gets use to it, it would be fine. |
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Post by drbill on Feb 2, 2021 14:47:15 GMT -6
Wouldn't a larger desktop have an adverse effect on your listening position, i.e. comb filtering? It's been argued that reflective sound coming off a console is a benefit....<snip>. I'd imagine once one gets use to it, it would be fine. I've never run across anyone that argued that a console made things sound beneficial. ?? As for getting used to things with it - I suppose so. You can get used to anything. But after you hear your sound field without it, you'll wonder how you ever mixed with one. It's a significant blurring of the sound field - offering a frequency spectrum shift, and delayed reflections which both fight mixing in my world. No high end speakers can offset that. I honestly wonder why would anyone prefer to opt for that? I mean, I get it. Some are married to consoles, and that's certainly viable and preferable to many - but even though I told my wife I'd be buried on top of my OrionX (LFAC), when push came to shove and I had the opportunity to hear the differences - and then when I had the opportunity to change things up, there was no looking back. |
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 2, 2021 22:38:10 GMT -6
It's been argued that reflective sound coming off a console is a benefit....<snip>. I'd imagine once one gets use to it, it would be fine. I've never run across anyone that argued that a console made things sound beneficial. ?? ...and this is exactly why my console is off to the side and behind me by about four feet. I love having the preamps and EQs, I've summed through it a few times, if I need to use it for some OTB mixing stuff I'll make the adjustments on headphones, but HOLY CRAP did it sound bad when it was positioned between me and the monitors. When I'm EQing harsh stuff out of guitars I hold my arms out toward my monitors. They absorb/diffuse/change the sound bouncing off the desk and reveal where the sharp, pinchy upper mids ACTUALLY are rather than the 3.4kHz (or whatever it actually is) that is emphasized by my work surface. Listen with my arms extended, diagnose, make the changes in the DAW (using the very same arms that had previously been extended), and extend again to compare/listen. |
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Post by plinker on Feb 3, 2021 8:20:29 GMT -6
I've never run across anyone that argued that a console made things sound beneficial. ?? ...and this is exactly why my console is off to the side and behind me by about four feet. I love having the preamps and EQs, I've summed through it a few times, if I need to use it for some OTB mixing stuff I'll make the adjustments on headphones, but HOLY CRAP did it sound bad when it was positioned between me and the monitors. When I'm EQing harsh stuff out of guitars I hold my arms out toward my monitors. They absorb/diffuse/change the sound bouncing off the desk and reveal where the sharp, pinchy upper mids ACTUALLY are rather than the 3.4kHz (or whatever it actually is) that is emphasized by my work surface. Listen with my arms extended, diagnose, make the changes in the DAW (using the very same arms that had previously been extended), and extend again to compare/listen. I would seriously love to see a video of you doing “the mummy” while mixing. |
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 3, 2021 13:36:54 GMT -6
...and this is exactly why my console is off to the side and behind me by about four feet. I love having the preamps and EQs, I've summed through it a few times, if I need to use it for some OTB mixing stuff I'll make the adjustments on headphones, but HOLY CRAP did it sound bad when it was positioned between me and the monitors. When I'm EQing harsh stuff out of guitars I hold my arms out toward my monitors. They absorb/diffuse/change the sound bouncing off the desk and reveal where the sharp, pinchy upper mids ACTUALLY are rather than the 3.4kHz (or whatever it actually is) that is emphasized by my work surface. Listen with my arms extended, diagnose, make the changes in the DAW (using the very same arms that had previously been extended), and extend again to compare/listen. I would seriously love to see a video of you doing “the mummy” while mixing. I've forgotten I had artists in the room and they were like "...uhhhhh...are youuuuuuu....ok?" |
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Post by svart on Feb 4, 2021 11:04:57 GMT -6
So I got my new desk top for the studio desk. It's 30% larger. I only set it on top of the other one for now to see how it feels and it finally feels like a real desk.
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Post by svart on Feb 5, 2021 9:39:05 GMT -6
 New desk. I think I might rework the supports for the top shelf and make them "invisible" by running a couple bars up the back to the supports. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 5, 2021 11:18:42 GMT -6
View AttachmentNew desk. I think I might rework the supports for the top shelf and make them "invisible" by running a couple bars up the back to the supports. Looks great! Nice job! You've definitely got some desk space for other things now if you choose. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 5, 2021 12:08:28 GMT -6
I haven't used a console in a looooong time. Did do live sound at a street dance a few years ago, if that counts.... Kill it on the front end. Mix in the box. This |
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Post by ragan on Feb 5, 2021 12:12:34 GMT -6
View AttachmentNew desk. I think I might rework the supports for the top shelf and make them "invisible" by running a couple bars up the back to the supports. Nice and clean, dig it. Do you do anything to de-couple your monitors from the desk or are they just rockin' and rollin' right on the surface there? |
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Post by svart on Feb 5, 2021 12:24:41 GMT -6
View AttachmentNew desk. I think I might rework the supports for the top shelf and make them "invisible" by running a couple bars up the back to the supports. Nice and clean, dig it. Do you do anything to de-couple your monitors from the desk or are they just rockin' and rollin' right on the surface there? I've never decoupled them. I'm not sure I believe that there is enough vibrational energy that transfers to a desk to affect the sound. At normal listening levels I don't feel anything in the desk from the speakers. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 5, 2021 13:49:19 GMT -6
If you want to try something cheap, a couple of thick catalogs (Sweetwater, etc) or some phone books, old Tape Op magazines. That's what I use here, about 3 inches total.
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Post by svart on Feb 5, 2021 14:02:45 GMT -6
If you want to try something cheap, a couple of thick catalogs (Sweetwater, etc) or some phone books, old Tape Op magazines. That's what I use here, about 3 inches total. I'm good as-is. But as a point of discussion, why do you think a dense material like stacked paper would help? Isn't the point to dampen the coupled vibrations? To dampen properly, you'd need a material with an elastic modulus that's lower than the equivalent stress/strain power being applied by the source (speaker). In layman's terms, the dampening material has to be soft and thick enough to block physical vibrations but not so soft that it compresses completely. Just speaking as a skeptical engineer, books would seem to be much too in-compressible a material to be of much use in dampening vibrations. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 5, 2021 15:46:33 GMT -6
If you want to try something cheap, a couple of thick catalogs (Sweetwater, etc) or some phone books, old Tape Op magazines. That's what I use here, about 3 inches total. I'm good as-is. But as a point of discussion, why do you think a dense material like stacked paper would help? Isn't the point to dampen the coupled vibrations? To dampen properly, you'd need a material with an elastic modulus that's lower than the equivalent stress/strain power being applied by the source (speaker). In layman's terms, the dampening material has to be soft and thick enough to block physical vibrations but not so soft that it compresses completely. Just speaking as a skeptical engineer, books would seem to be much too in-compressible a material to be of much use in dampening vibrations. Understandably - this would certainly seem to be so. However, in my experience, a stack of books actually works to decouple speakers to an appreciable enough degree to be worth it on various desks I've owned over the years. Likewise with spinning hard drives. I use speaker stands generally, but I've had a few makeshift short term studios over the years where I needed something in a pinch, and books made a difference. Go figure. I suspect that the heavier and denser the desk, the less books would matter. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 5, 2021 15:59:34 GMT -6
If you want to try something cheap, a couple of thick catalogs (Sweetwater, etc) or some phone books, old Tape Op magazines. That's what I use here, about 3 inches total. I'm good as-is. But as a point of discussion, why do you think a dense material like stacked paper would help? Isn't the point to dampen the coupled vibrations? To dampen properly, you'd need a material with an elastic modulus that's lower than the equivalent stress/strain power being applied by the source (speaker). In layman's terms, the dampening material has to be soft and thick enough to block physical vibrations but not so soft that it compresses completely. Just speaking as a skeptical engineer, books would seem to be much too in-compressible a material to be of much use in dampening vibrations. I'm not an engineer, so I can't really offer any technical insight. Just did a little hand test though, I can feel much more vibration in the papers than I can in the immediate desk right around them, makes me think some of it is escaping there. I wonder if the tiny bit of slippiness between the pages has some mechanical property. All I can offer is subjective opinion like Mark's in the post above. And I know that doesn't count as rigorous data. |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 5, 2021 16:36:49 GMT -6
I did this other little informal test too, when I rap on the desk I can feel the vibration coming through on my chest, leaning in. But rapping on the speaker, no vibration is felt through the desk.
I've watched enough Mr. Wizard to be a real scientist now, LOL.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 5, 2021 16:39:48 GMT -6
It's been argued that reflective sound coming off a console is a benefit....<snip>. I'd imagine once one gets use to it, it would be fine. I've never run across anyone that argued that a console made things sound beneficial. ?? As for getting used to things with it - I suppose so. You can get used to anything. But after you hear your sound field without it, you'll wonder how you ever mixed with one. It's a significant blurring of the sound field - offering a frequency spectrum shift, and delayed reflections which both fight mixing in my world. No high end speakers can offset that. I honestly wonder why would anyone prefer to opt for that? I mean, I get it. Some are married to consoles, and that's certainly viable and preferable to many - but even though I told my wife I'd be buried on top of my OrionX (LFAC), when push came to shove and I had the opportunity to hear the differences - and then when I had the opportunity to change things up, there was no looking back. I've seen a few threads about it. Not advocating one way or the other. I honestly don't have an opinion about it. Just throwing that ideal out there. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 5, 2021 16:41:55 GMT -6
I haven't used a console in a looooong time. Did do live sound at a street dance a few years ago, if that counts.... Kill it on the front end. Mix in the box. This I don't disagree. |
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Post by svart on Feb 8, 2021 9:22:22 GMT -6
 So here's the desk with the "hidden" supports for the top shelf. I like this a lot better. I welded some square tube and used some scrap 3" angle steel to make standoffs to bolt to the frame under the table.  Here's my old 3 legged cat because he's cute. |
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Post by stratboy on Feb 8, 2021 13:28:04 GMT -6
Studio cat!
Name?
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Post by svart on Feb 8, 2021 13:33:32 GMT -6
His name is Badger. He's not usually cuddly but he's been getting more so over the years. The pic was a rare case of him wanting to be paid attention to. |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 8, 2021 13:36:26 GMT -6
If you want to try something cheap, a couple of thick catalogs (Sweetwater, etc) or some phone books, old Tape Op magazines. That's what I use here, about 3 inches total. I'm still rocking some sandwiches made from multiple alternating layers of two different density 1/2" foam sheeting. Definitely kills transfer to the table surface at higher volumes. Cost....free.... |
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