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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 17, 2020 13:04:39 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2020 13:42:48 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? Yes. Please don't call it a flavor. The basic preamp sound categories: Neve 1073, API 312, V72, V76, ISA110, any others? |
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Post by tkaitkai on Nov 17, 2020 13:45:50 GMT -6
The more I listen critically to vocal recordings that I love, the more tempted I am to sell my Wunder and buy a 1073. Or just keep it and have both.  I had a Vintech on loan a while back, and I absolutely loved it on acoustic guitars. Didn't care for it on vocals, but I think my sonic palate has shifted a bit since then. If I ever get a U47, I'm 100% buying a 1073 to go with it, no doubt. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2020 13:50:38 GMT -6
Yeah - it's really hard to get better. I can understand wanting different flavors for pushing into distortion, but for vocals Neve 1073 is the standard for a reason.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 17, 2020 13:59:25 GMT -6
Oh oh, the f word!! |
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Post by ericn on Nov 17, 2020 14:22:07 GMT -6
Herbie audio rule #1 don’t knock what works!
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2020 15:25:04 GMT -6
Oh oh, the f word!! I know, I can't believe it. SMH . . . But seeing our Master of the House pop in, I'm reminded I forgot the Helios Type 69 category. How does one get 'flavor' from a microphone preamp? Do you touch it to your tongue like a 9 volt battery? Man, that was fun. But I digress . . . 1073 reigns supreme for me also. If a mic chain doesn't sound right, the easiest change to make first is to pop out the preamp and replace it with a 1073. And yes, to the brother in the back who raised his hand and mentioned the Vintech... Dallas's 1073 recreation is a beautiful thing. I use them all the time in addition to the actual Neves. |
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Post by lpedrum on Nov 17, 2020 15:52:04 GMT -6
One definition of flavor is “the characteristic quality of something, it’s distinctive nature.” So saying that a pre has a certain flavor or color is fine by me. Conversely if a pre strives to be transparent and unaltering it could be described as flavorless or colorless—intentionally so.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 17, 2020 16:16:18 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? If he's up for it, I'd love to hear more from bluegrassdan re: his thoughts about using the Neve 8068 at Echo Mountain a couple weeks back. IIRC, he wasn't sure he liked what the Neve did to some of the instruments. Granted, it's an 8068 vs. 1073s, but still - in the family. |
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Post by rowmat on Nov 17, 2020 16:24:30 GMT -6
Better still is a 1084 with its three high frequency options of 10, 12 and 16khz.
Although the class A/B Neves sound subjectively more hi-fi/present than the Class A Neves.
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 17, 2020 16:30:01 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? If he's up for it, I'd love to hear more from bluegrassdan re: his thoughts about using the Neve 8068 at Echo Mountain a couple weeks back. IIRC, he wasn't sure he liked what the Neve did to some of the instruments. Granted, it's an 8068 vs. 1073s, but still - in the family. When people talk about the "Neve Thing" I always assumed they were really referring to the 80 series Neves (whether they knew it or not), as they are much more common, and in my limited experience every bit as nice. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2020 17:02:47 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? Yes. Please don't call it a flavor. The basic preamp sound categories: Neve 1073, API 312, V72, V76, ISA110, any others? RCA tube pres UA 610 Trident style and Daking Helios RND Solid state telefunken models can sound totally different from each other Grace pres are very unique sounding PGA 2500 & THAT chip pres Various modern op amps pres all sound different. Ultra high end clean tube pres. $$$$ to even diy Modern lofi tube shit |
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Post by chessparov on Nov 17, 2020 19:10:52 GMT -6
Avalon 737 (to match the TLM103/C800G/Ref C).  Chris |
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Post by aremos on Nov 17, 2020 19:25:11 GMT -6
Don't know if you're being sarcastic about the Avalon but the valve ones are totally different than the FET creations: M2, M4 & M5 (AD2022).
And for "clean" as opposed to "musical"(NEVEish & APIish) we can also mention Gordon, Millenia, GML, Pueblo along with Hardy & NPNG.
But then I don't really want to get into a preamp thread as I guess this one is about the 1073.
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Post by Michael O. on Nov 17, 2020 19:48:25 GMT -6
1073/1084/31102 and the like are inarguably excellent and are never the weakest links in any signal chain, but if considered independent of their integral eq and filter sections my favorite solid state preamp type is probably the American-made Langevin AM16/Altec 9470a designs and their variants. Markedly different discrete preamps than the multi-stage Neves, and even further removed from something like the Melcor/MAP/API doa topology; these amps just sound right to me and I didn’t see them mentioned previously.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 17, 2020 20:52:17 GMT -6
Don't know if you're being sarcastic about the Avalon but the valve ones are totally different than the FET creations: M2, M4 & M5 (AD2022). And for "clean" as opposed to "musical"(NEVEish & APIish) we can also mention Gordon, Millenia, GML, Pueblo along with Hardy & NPNG. But then I don't really want to get into a preamp thread as I guess this one is about the 1073. I was kidding around. My "experience" with a 737 is purely anecdotal. I do love the sound of their M5. (I wonder how the V5 is in comparison?) Chris |
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2020 21:13:00 GMT -6
Yes. Please don't call it a flavor. The basic preamp sound categories: Neve 1073, API 312, V72, V76, ISA110, any others? RCA tube pres UA 610 Trident style and Daking Helios RND Solid state telefunken models can sound totally different from each other Grace pres are very unique sounding PGA 2500 & THAT chip pres Various modern op amps pres all sound different. Ultra high end clean tube pres. $$$$ to even diy Modern lofi tube shit Well played, sir, well played. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2020 21:13:54 GMT -6
Avalon 737 (to match the TLM103/C800G/Ref C). Chris Now THAT sounds like a flavor . . . mayonnaise on vanilla. LOL |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 17, 2020 22:27:29 GMT -6
The pres at Abbey Road must deserve a mention I would think. I've used the Trident series 80 many times, did my first album on the original classic API board and did a quick mic test on a restored Neve console. All were superb.
I personally never thought the Trident 80 was all that special. The API was great, but I find they can sometimes irritate a little if you push it too hard on a vocal. Now, if API's were good enough for Tom Petty, well, they're good enough for me, but.. the best sound I've ever heard was in fact through one of those giant Neve consoles. I was at a mixing session of a James Blunt session and a Neo session. They'd done 5 tracks each live for a broadcast. I'd also heard Brad Paisley's recordings at the same studio, all done on a Neve. So, I sure wouldn't mind one of those little API boards, or an SSL, but I would have to say the big Neve console was the most impressive to me.
I have the Stam SA73. It's the little 1/2 rack one channel 1073 style pre. It's wonderful on guitars and bass, but for vocals, my Dizengoff D4 ( Abbey Road clone) just sings a bit more. I would love to have one of the updated 2 channel Stam units. I'm also interested in the Heritage Audio Elite series. So far, I've heard a few Neve clones, but so far, only the Stam got me in the zone. I'd love to compare it to an original Neve one day, just to see how close it really is.
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Post by christopher on Nov 17, 2020 22:38:50 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? I assume you like using the EQ.. What EQ settings are your go to? Lately I love boosting mids, how common was that? |
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Post by Ward on Nov 18, 2020 6:31:32 GMT -6
The pres at Abbey Road must deserve a mention I would think. I've used the Trident series 80 many times, did my first album on the original classic API board and did a quick mic test on a restored Neve console. All were superb. I personally never thought the Trident 80 was all that special. The API was great, but I find they can sometimes irritate a little if you push it too hard on a vocal. Now, if API's were good enough for Tom Petty, well, they're good enough for me, but.. the best sound I've ever heard was in fact through one of those giant Neve consoles. I was at a mixing session of a James Blunt session and a Neo session. They'd done 5 tracks each live for a broadcast. I'd also heard Brad Paisley's recordings at the same studio, all done on a Neve. So, I sure wouldn't mind one of those little API boards, or an SSL, but I would have to say the big Neve console was the most impressive to me. I have the Stam SA73. It's the little 1/2 rack one channel 1073 style pre. It's wonderful on guitars and bass, but for vocals, my Dizengoff D4 ( Abbey Road clone) just sings a bit more. I would love to have one of the updated 2 channel Stam units. I'm also interested in the Heritage Audio Elite series. So far, I've heard a few Neve clones, but so far, only the Stam got me in the zone. I'd love to compare it to an original Neve one day, just to see how close it really is. Great post, Martin John Butler! The Dizengoff is a lot better than many people realized at the time. I was lucky to grab one as well as the DA2 (RCA clone) - winetree got a pair of each! Some units were duds, but never heard a complaint from you or Robert, and mine are perfect. Nice addition to the thoughts! Hope cowboycoalminer doesn't mind the roller-coaster we're on in his thread. :-) |
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Post by nomatic on Nov 18, 2020 6:37:39 GMT -6
to Neve. Something about the 1073 sound that is what music should sound like. Not saying that other variants can't be useful, (they can) but if I only had one sound to record music with, it would definitely be the 1073. I like other variations of Neve tones as well but the 1073 is king IMO. Any thoughts? If he's up for it, I'd love to hear more from bluegrassdan re: his thoughts about using the Neve 8068 at Echo Mountain a couple weeks back. IIRC, he wasn't sure he liked what the Neve did to some of the instruments. Granted, it's an 8068 vs. 1073s, but still - in the family. While I am not Bluegrass Dan I have don several records at Echo and would agree that the console is not Ideal for everything. Its very rock n roll sounding. I.E. thick and lovely with slightly slow transients and plump midrange. I like the Neve's for drums , electric guitars and vocals but there are better things for acoustic instruments... |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 18, 2020 8:05:32 GMT -6
The basic preamp sound categories: Neve 1073, API 312, V72, V76, ISA110, any others? RCA BA-2 (and lots of variation amidst ‘RCA tube pres’) RCA BA-1/11 RCA OP-6 Collins 6Q-1 Gates SA-70/Coil CA-70 Langevin 5116/Collins 356A/GE BA1xx Altec 458A Langevin 5116-B Langevin AM-16 Altec 9470/9475 Could go on, those are probably the big American alternative sounds. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 18, 2020 8:21:13 GMT -6
If he's up for it, I'd love to hear more from bluegrassdan re: his thoughts about using the Neve 8068 at Echo Mountain a couple weeks back. IIRC, he wasn't sure he liked what the Neve did to some of the instruments. Granted, it's an 8068 vs. 1073s, but still - in the family. While I am not Bluegrass Dan I have don several records at Echo and would agree that the console is not Ideal for everything. Its very rock n roll sounding. I.E. thick and lovely with slightly slow transients and plump midrange. I like the Neve's for drums , electric guitars and vocals but there are better things for acoustic instruments... I hear you. Personally, I think these things are very much a matter of individual taste and preference. I think it makes for interesting (sometimes even enlightening) conversation. There were a few months back in the 90s where I preferred the sound of XT-20 ADATs over a lovely 2" 24-track Studer A-80 due to how the transients of my acoustic guitars were handled. (This would have been through Neve 1066s.) Eventually I changed my mind, but there was something about the immediacy and crispness of attack on the ADATs that I liked at that time. I'm always interested to hear what individual artists, engineers, and producers prefer and why. Unless the goal is "near-perfect accuracy," I think there's a fairly broad range of "acceptable," based on what different people prefer. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 18, 2020 8:30:45 GMT -6
Ronnie Capone told me : Bill, track on an API, mix on a Neve. Or when in doubt, track on a Neve, mix on an API. That's always worked for me. These days, I'm kinda on a tube pre kick. The Coil's and WT72's. But if not, yeah, Neve......
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