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Post by rowmat on Nov 20, 2020 9:50:17 GMT -6
Yes, I can hear the AB 53 series sound on 'Brighton The Corners'. I own and use a sidecar all the time,
they sound different (smaller / brighter), to me when the 33xx modules are taken out of the console and racked.
Possibly because there are output transformer load resistors located in the console/patchbay that are disconnected when the modules are removed.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 20, 2020 11:48:15 GMT -6
When I was building my Five Fish NK-72DI with Carnhill ins and outs I didn't like them unloaded at all, weird zingy top end, resonant. The 600 ohm strapping resistor solved that problem nicely, so I made it a permanent part of the build.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 11:49:53 GMT -6
Rowmat, there are more transformers on the channel strip below the preamps and one Marinair
after on the direct ouputs in the mixer all in the signal path before the patchbay plus i guess the
military looking heavy power supplies may do something also.
I use them in a two rack though when out and about and they work just fine.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 20, 2020 14:29:48 GMT -6
Echo's is a Neve 8068. I asked Geoff Tanner about why it sounded mushy and lo-fi. He's never worked on it, but he had a few ideas ranging from caps to buss things....all above my knowledge grade. You just never know how places are wired and maintained. Could be something simple like an impedance mismatch somewhere. At any rate, if we work over there again I won't be using the console. We'll bring our own if we need to. You'd probably want to ask Fred Hill, though I don't know that he installed that one. Isn't it amazing how often this is true: better bring your own gear to what looks on the surface like a fantastic over the top place where everything should be perfect.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 20, 2020 15:16:28 GMT -6
Echo's is a Neve 8068. I asked Geoff Tanner about why it sounded mushy and lo-fi. He's never worked on it, but he had a few ideas ranging from caps to buss things....all above my knowledge grade. You just never know how places are wired and maintained. Could be something simple like an impedance mismatch somewhere. At any rate, if we work over there again I won't be using the console. We'll bring our own if we need to. Isn't it amazing how often this is true: better bring your own gear to what looks on the surface like a fantastic over the top place where everything should be perfect. This is so true. I originally thought the whole Neve thing was BS because the first Neve modules I used all need a good tech.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 20, 2020 19:28:52 GMT -6
Also I'd like to give a mention to the Mackie preamps since those haven't been called out by name yet. In some electronic circles they are legitimate options. You can't be serious.
Mackie preamps are some of the worst I've used.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 20, 2020 20:35:22 GMT -6
John, I thought the Onyx's at least... "Did no harm". Which in Budget Land is cool. Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 20, 2020 20:42:41 GMT -6
Also I'd like to give a mention to the Mackie preamps since those haven't been called out by name yet. In some electronic circles they are legitimate options. You can't be serious.
Mackie preamps are some of the worst I've used.
The pres on the original 1604 didn’t suck, for the money, at the time that was a huge deal.
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Post by sean on Nov 20, 2020 20:55:24 GMT -6
I’m working at Echo Mountain this weekend, I’ll see if my experience is the same as Dan’s
I’m usually a GML or John Hardy guy when it comes to acoustic music but I’m interested to hear the Neve...I’m going to keep it all on the console if I can.
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Post by nomatic on Nov 20, 2020 21:02:18 GMT -6
Echo's is a Neve 8068. I asked Geoff Tanner about why it sounded mushy and lo-fi. He's never worked on it, but he had a few ideas ranging from caps to buss things....all above my knowledge grade. You just never know how places are wired and maintained. Could be something simple like an impedance mismatch somewhere. At any rate, if we work over there again I won't be using the console. We'll bring our own if we need to. I've built 1073 clones and have liked them. We have a Vintech at school. Sampled original 1073s at Sony in Nashville that sounded magnificant. The Neve at Echo was recapped last year so I am not sure what the problem is with it either? I personally feel that room is more of a rock and roll fantasy than a truly great studio. I like the smaller API room better.....
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Post by bluegrassdan on Nov 20, 2020 21:05:36 GMT -6
We needed to use it for a studio video-shoot. Better to space out and physically distance.
It is a beautiful space.
I worked in the API room back in 2012 and so many things didn't work.
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Post by sean on Nov 20, 2020 21:09:35 GMT -6
We needed to use it for a studio video-shoot. Better to space out and physically distance. It is a beautiful space. I worked in the API room back in 2012 and so many things didn't work. As long as 6 channels on that Neve work I’ll be ok haha
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Post by rowmat on Nov 21, 2020 0:35:58 GMT -6
Also I'd like to give a mention to the Mackie preamps since those haven't been called out by name yet. In some electronic circles they are legitimate options. You can't be serious.
Mackie preamps are some of the worst I've used.
I have an original 1604-VLZ. If you bypass the channel strip and EQ which can’t be switched out and just use the pre coming out of the insert they were very useable.
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Post by Ward on Nov 21, 2020 7:59:47 GMT -6
Also I'd like to give a mention to the Mackie preamps since those haven't been called out by name yet. In some electronic circles they are legitimate options. You can't be serious. Mackie preamps are some of the worst I've used.
Yep. IMHO: Only thing worse than the 'Focusrite designed' Avid/Digidesign preamps in the Control 24 and C|24. JMHO: Totally useless. IMHE: An ideal pairing with the plastic sounding ADAT format. YMMV
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Post by EmRR on Nov 21, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -6
I’ve been remixing some 1604 blackface ADAT stuff I recorded in 1994, sounds fucking great. Shit for mics, too.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 21, 2020 11:43:42 GMT -6
Yeah - it's really hard to get better. I can understand wanting different flavors for pushing into distortion, but for vocals Neve 1073 is the standard for a reason. I've been tracking my vocals with a Wunder CM7 > BAE 1073D > Retro STA Level. I'm happy with the results, but I have a fairly bright tenor vocal and lately I've been thinking I should try swopping out the BAE 1073 for something like an Mercury M72 or Coil CA-70 (with that feedback control for rolling off the highs) But reading you post above I'm wondering if a tube pre is just adding distortion and saturation where it's not needed. I hate that GAS feeling where you think you're missing out on some "magic bullet" so to speak. Have you used any tube pres you really rated?
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Post by EmRR on Nov 21, 2020 13:07:31 GMT -6
Yeah - it's really hard to get better. I can understand wanting different flavors for pushing into distortion, but for vocals Neve 1073 is the standard for a reason. I've been tracking my vocals with a Wunder CM7 > BAE 1073D > Retro STA Level. I'm happy with the results, but I have a fairly bright tenor vocal and lately I've been thinking I should try swopping out the BAE 1073 for something like an Mercury M72 or Coil CA-70 (with that feedback control for rolling off the highs) But reading you post above I'm wondering if a tube pre is just adding distortion and saturation where it's not needed. I hate that GAS feeling where you think you're missing out on some "magic bullet" so to speak. Have you used any tube pres you really rated? A Gates SA-70 has a definite presence edge from the distortion profile, the CA-70 should have it too. If you haven’t, take a hard look at any edge the Sta might be adding. Everything has a distortion profile you’re hearing, unconsciously or obviously. For the record I have almost never used tube preamps for obvious distortion, in fact many people comment on how much cleaner and smoother they seem to be. ‘Lifelike’ and ‘natural’ are used a lot. We know nothing actually is, it’s appearances. The distortion ‘benefit’ I mainly like with rock band work is that if something accidentally overloads, it’s non-apparent to passable with the tube pre’s I’m using. If that happened with many other preamps, it’s a ruined take.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 21, 2020 14:34:45 GMT -6
You can't be serious.
Mackie preamps are some of the worst I've used.
The pres on the original 1604 didn’t suck, for the money, at the time that was a huge deal. They sucked. No headroom.
However, compared ton the utter crap that was available in prosumer consoles at that time, they didn't suck AS MUCH.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 21, 2020 15:41:33 GMT -6
The pres on the original 1604 didn’t suck, for the money, at the time that was a huge deal. They sucked. No headroom.
However, compared ton the utter crap that was available in prosumer consoles at that time, they didn't suck AS MUCH.
A Midas Venice 240 has LESS headroom.... ....but goes soft and gooey non-obnoxious when it fuzzes a little. The Mackie goes straight to squarewave.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 21, 2020 16:39:46 GMT -6
They sucked. No headroom.
However, compared ton the utter crap that was available in prosumer consoles at that time, they didn't suck AS MUCH.
A Midas Venice 240 has LESS headroom.... ....but goes soft and gooey non-obnoxious when it fuzzes a little. The Mackie goes straight to squarewave. You really do need to know how to gain stage and ride the gain of a Mackie. The thing is it’s really easy to knock the Mackie, then you grab a Peavey, Studiomaster, Crate or any other console in the same price range of the same vintage of the original 1604 and complain. Everybody bought Mackie’s for a reason at the time, I can’t name names but I’ll admit to selling quite a few second Gen 1604’s and 1202’s to guys we all regard as legends. The Mackie pre is probably the most common inexpensive pre found on any chart or Award discography. If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear.
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Post by donr on Nov 21, 2020 16:49:32 GMT -6
>If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear.
There's a print ad header for ya!
Nice, Eric.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 21, 2020 17:06:09 GMT -6
A Midas Venice 240 has LESS headroom.... ....but goes soft and gooey non-obnoxious when it fuzzes a little. The Mackie goes straight to squarewave. You really do need to know how to gain stage and ride the gain of a Mackie. The thing is it’s really easy to knock the Mackie, then you grab a Peavey, Studiomaster, Crate or any other console in the same price range of the same vintage of the original 1604 and complain. Everybody bought Mackie’s for a reason at the time, I can’t name names but I’ll admit to selling quite a few second Gen 1604’s and 1202’s to guys we all regard as legends. The Mackie pre is probably the most common inexpensive pre found on any chart or Award discography. If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear. You see plenty used as personal headphone cue mixers in high end studios.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 21, 2020 17:32:25 GMT -6
But it's no "Great River" killer, like the (then $29) ART Tube MP, on the infamous GS "ART Tube MP vs. Great River Thread" of Yore! BTW I do realize the Great River, is a great Pre. IMHO the ART did well (during the blind listening time period/before "Reveal")... Due to the actual specific sources recorded. I don't know if I'd want 30 stacked Tracks of it. Chris P.S. Only listened to the recent YouTube video, but the new Audioscape Pre sounded great too!
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Post by ericn on Nov 21, 2020 17:35:48 GMT -6
But it's no "Great River" killer, like the (then $29) ART Tube MP, on the infamous GS "ART Tube MP vs. Great River Thread of Yore! Chris Great River killer, Dam!
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Post by ericn on Nov 21, 2020 17:42:41 GMT -6
>If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear. There's a print ad header for ya! Nice, Eric. Since your the rockstar / guitar hero, we will let you take credit for that one, but don’t worry I know guys still waiting for stuff promised after blurbs in the Mackie magazine that came out after the original 8 buss.
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