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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 22, 2020 20:18:23 GMT -6
This is ringing some bells; some other threads about different Neve repro modules, and my own console experience. Should the output not be full up for max headroom? Then gain slightly lower if need be? There's a console at a studio near here that is that way, if you take direct channel outs to the DAW it's gonna be crunchy and low unless you push the faders all the way up, and back the input trim down. Beat me to it. I would turn the output gain to maximum and bring down the input and see if that cleans things up. I've got settings that work now. Took me a couple of tries, especially with Emily. My voice is kind of warm and goey. Hers is like a laser and when she lets rip... look out. Need an outboard comp. lol. I just wanted to make sure it was the norm.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 23, 2020 6:55:06 GMT -6
You might also place an inline pad between the microphone and the preamp. Just a simple thing that works sometimes.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 23, 2020 7:25:59 GMT -6
Anyone tried the new Heritage Audio HA73EQ ELITE or HA81A Preamp & EQ yet? I wonder how it compares to previous models and the original. I'm still using my Heritage DMA 73 I bought years ago. Had it up for sale once and no one bought it. I'm glad now. Still the best sounding amp I've got and I've got several.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 23, 2020 7:29:34 GMT -6
So, I’ve had the AMS-Neve 1073DPX here for a few months now and have been recording all of our duets for the Christmas album with it. It sounds great, but I do have some questions. I find the unit distorts really easily, so I have to keep the gain and output gain down, because Emily and I are loud. I generally have to keep the operatic stuff at 30db of gain and the output know at 10 o’clock or you can see on the digital meter that we hit the red easily and get that Neve distortion that is nice on some things, but not the kind of vocals we go for. This means the signal in the DAW is lower than I’m used to. Now, I obviously make up for the gain with a compressor emulation, etc. Perhaps it is just that I have been recording too hot for many years, which is totally probable. That’s probably my only complaint with the unit. I’ve been meaning to post about it and get some thoughts, but I just haven’t had a minute, but since we’re discussing Neve preamps I thought it might be a good time. I don’t get that kind of crunchy distortion on my Dan Alexander unless I really push it. I can usually keep the gain at 40db and adjust the output so as not to peak the converter and have no issues. Of course, the Dan Alexander is a 1272, not a 1073. Anyway, just curious if this is typical or just something with this unit. 10 oclock on the output seems very low. Should be able to dime that thing I would think. Try turning your output up and pull your input all the way back and see what happens.
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Post by matt@IAA on Nov 23, 2020 8:11:37 GMT -6
Yeah, definitely start with the output cracked. It’s confusing because the two knobs aren’t doing the same thing. One is actually adding volume, the other is taking it away.
Think of it like a photo on the computer. The gain knob is like zoom in / magnify, and the trim knob is like zoom out. The catch is that the zoom also can crop, if you zoom too far. So as long as you don’t zoom in til it crops (ie distortion or clipping) you can zoom back out. But if you do go far, when you zoom back out the image is no longer as clear.
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 23, 2020 13:24:39 GMT -6
Sold my Heritage 73 for an Electrodyne. I have a bunch of BAE 312’s as well. Those are my main solid state pres. As far as tubes go, I have a beautiful Useful Arts pre that I just love on lots of sources. I also have a modded Ampex pre that is killer as well. I miss the Heritage for vocals. But for everything else, I’m very happy with what I have now.
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Post by plinker on Nov 23, 2020 15:28:41 GMT -6
Is there a problem with the Heritage units? Are they not expensive enough? ;-)
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Post by nick8801 on Nov 23, 2020 19:09:43 GMT -6
Is there a problem with the Heritage units? Are they not expensive enough? ;-) Lol....I loved the heritage. I just love the electrodyne more!
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 24, 2020 6:03:03 GMT -6
So, I’ve had the AMS-Neve 1073DPX here for a few months now and have been recording all of our duets for the Christmas album with it. It sounds great, but I do have some questions. I find the unit distorts really easily, so I have to keep the gain and output gain down, because Emily and I are loud. I generally have to keep the operatic stuff at 30db of gain and the output know at 10 o’clock or you can see on the digital meter that we hit the red easily and get that Neve distortion that is nice on some things, but not the kind of vocals we go for. This means the signal in the DAW is lower than I’m used to. Now, I obviously make up for the gain with a compressor emulation, etc. Perhaps it is just that I have been recording too hot for many years, which is totally probable. That’s probably my only complaint with the unit. I’ve been meaning to post about it and get some thoughts, but I just haven’t had a minute, but since we’re discussing Neve preamps I thought it might be a good time. I don’t get that kind of crunchy distortion on my Dan Alexander unless I really push it. I can usually keep the gain at 40db and adjust the output so as not to peak the converter and have no issues. Of course, the Dan Alexander is a 1272, not a 1073. Anyway, just curious if this is typical or just something with this unit. 10 oclock on the output seems very low. Should be able to dime that thing I would think. Try turning your output up and pull your input all the way back and see what happens. I can totally do that. I can crank the output to 12 o'clock and bring the input down. Don't you get more saturation as you crank the input gain though?
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 24, 2020 6:05:14 GMT -6
Yeah, definitely start with the output cracked. It’s confusing because the two knobs aren’t doing the same thing. One is actually adding volume, the other is taking it away. Think of it like a photo on the computer. The gain knob is like zoom in / magnify, and the trim knob is like zoom out. The catch is that the zoom also can crop, if you zoom too far. So as long as you don’t zoom in til it crops (ie distortion or clipping) you can zoom back out. But if you do go far, when you zoom back out the image is no longer as clear. Even if the VU meter is showing you nearly peaking out? Would it be more important at that point to bring up the output and lower the input gain? The VU meter would be the same. The only thing that would change are the input/output settings. That's a great description by the way.
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2020 7:04:45 GMT -6
But it's no "Great River" killer, like the (then $29) ART Tube MP, on the infamous GS "ART Tube MP vs. Great River Thread of Yore! Chris Great River killer, Dam! The puns are killing me today! LOL
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2020 7:07:28 GMT -6
2 pages of Mackie posts on a Neve thread.....LOL! Behringer anyone? Whoa . . . there's no need to swear!
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Post by chessparov on Nov 24, 2020 8:01:03 GMT -6
Midas well. (even for me that's baaaad!) Chris
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Post by matt@IAA on Nov 24, 2020 8:20:56 GMT -6
Even if the VU meter is showing you nearly peaking out? Would it be more important at that point to bring up the output and lower the input gain? The VU meter would be the same. The only thing that would change are the input/output settings. That's a great description by the way. Yeah the gain knob does three things on a 1073 style pre - adjusts the gain on (mostly) fixed transistor gain stages - adjusts pads after the transformer to control total gain - adds a third gain stage (not on a 1272) The trim knob is after the second stage and before the third output stage, after where the EQ would go. All it does is reduce volume after the adjustable gain stages, and before the third output stage. So if your gain is too high for the signal you’re sending into the transformer, distortion has already happened by the time it hits the trim. Highest headroom is with the output wide open. This way you’re not adding gain only to remove it again.
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Post by the other mark williams on Nov 24, 2020 10:08:56 GMT -6
Even if the VU meter is showing you nearly peaking out? Would it be more important at that point to bring up the output and lower the input gain? The VU meter would be the same. The only thing that would change are the input/output settings. That's a great description by the way. Yeah the gain knob does three things on a 1073 style pre - adjusts the gain on (mostly) fixed transistor gain stages - adjusts pads after the transformer to control total gain - adds a third gain stage (not on a 1272) The trim knob is after the second stage and before the third output stage, after where the EQ would go. All it does is reduce volume after the adjustable gain stages, and before the third output stage. So if your gain is too high for the signal you’re sending into the transformer, distortion has already happened by the time it hits the trim. Highest headroom is with the output wide open. This way you’re not adding gain only to remove it again. Right on. I’ve always treated Neve pres as if they’re a guitar amp with Gain and a Master Volume. MV turned up and Gain turned down cleans up the signal b/c it’s got more headroom. Maybe an oversimplification, but that’s how an engineer explained it to me 20+ yrs ago.
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 24, 2020 11:36:58 GMT -6
Even if the VU meter is showing you nearly peaking out? Would it be more important at that point to bring up the output and lower the input gain? The VU meter would be the same. The only thing that would change are the input/output settings. That's a great description by the way. Yeah the gain knob does three things on a 1073 style pre - adjusts the gain on (mostly) fixed transistor gain stages - adjusts pads after the transformer to control total gain - adds a third gain stage (not on a 1272) The trim knob is after the second stage and before the third output stage, after where the EQ would go. All it does is reduce volume after the adjustable gain stages, and before the third output stage. So if your gain is too high for the signal you’re sending into the transformer, distortion has already happened by the time it hits the trim. Highest headroom is with the output wide open. This way you’re not adding gain only to remove it again. Got it. Thanks.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 24, 2020 19:40:22 GMT -6
A Midas Venice 240 has LESS headroom.... ....but goes soft and gooey non-obnoxious when it fuzzes a little. The Mackie goes straight to squarewave. You really do need to know how to gain stage and ride the gain of a Mackie. The thing is it’s really easy to knock the Mackie, then you grab a Peavey, Studiomaster, Crate or any other console in the same price range of the same vintage of the original 1604 and complain. Everybody bought Mackie’s for a reason at the time, I can’t name names but I’ll admit to selling quite a few second Gen 1604’s and 1202’s to guys we all regard as legends. The Mackie pre is probably the most common inexpensive pre found on any chart or Award discography. If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear. The big problem with Mackies is that they fall apart. It's like they're made of toothpicks. And their service policies SUCK!
If, for example, I'm running as Mackie console in a club. I CAN NOT SEND MY CONSOLE OFF FOR A MONTH TO HAVE IT SERVICED AT THE FACTORY, especially since I can do it myself - IF PARTS ARE AVAILABLE.
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Post by Ward on Nov 24, 2020 20:19:11 GMT -6
I blame myself in most part for this thread derailing, and i apologize to Herbie and the posters who wanted to keep it Neve-centric
Let's please keep the thread about the Neve and similar tonalities and clones.
We can leave the Mackie and B-word bashing for another thread,
Chin up.
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Post by chessparov on Nov 24, 2020 20:42:02 GMT -6
The tweaking of the 1073 knobs, is very valuable for 1073 Rookies (like me!). Thanks guys! (even if it "just" a GAP ) Chris
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Post by rowmat on Nov 24, 2020 20:45:40 GMT -6
You really do need to know how to gain stage and ride the gain of a Mackie. The thing is it’s really easy to knock the Mackie, then you grab a Peavey, Studiomaster, Crate or any other console in the same price range of the same vintage of the original 1604 and complain. Everybody bought Mackie’s for a reason at the time, I can’t name names but I’ll admit to selling quite a few second Gen 1604’s and 1202’s to guys we all regard as legends. The Mackie pre is probably the most common inexpensive pre found on any chart or Award discography. If you can’t make a respectable sounding record with a Mackie, it’s not the gear. The big problem with Mackies is that they fall apart. It's like they're made of toothpicks. And their service policies SUCK!
If, for example, I'm running as Mackie console in a club. I CAN NOT SEND MY CONSOLE OFF FOR A MONTH TO HAVE IT SERVICED AT THE FACTORY, especially since I can do it myself - IF PARTS ARE AVAILABLE.
John please back off your gain. You’re clipping!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Nov 25, 2020 4:21:08 GMT -6
Avalon 737 (to match the TLM103/C800G/Ref C). Chris Now THAT sounds like a flavor . . . mayonnaise on vanilla. LOL Fat free
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 25, 2020 9:19:41 GMT -6
Even if the VU meter is showing you nearly peaking out? Would it be more important at that point to bring up the output and lower the input gain? The VU meter would be the same. The only thing that would change are the input/output settings. That's a great description by the way. Yeah the gain knob does three things on a 1073 style pre - adjusts the gain on (mostly) fixed transistor gain stages - adjusts pads after the transformer to control total gain - adds a third gain stage (not on a 1272) The trim knob is after the second stage and before the third output stage, after where the EQ would go. All it does is reduce volume after the adjustable gain stages, and before the third output stage. So if your gain is too high for the signal you’re sending into the transformer, distortion has already happened by the time it hits the trim. Highest headroom is with the output wide open. This way you’re not adding gain only to remove it again. Ok. I dialed it in properly last night. I hear the added clarity and head room. Actually, like a moron, I completely missed the Unity notch on the output fader. SMH. So, I'll just set the output at unity and bring the gain up as desired. Thanks for the help! Funny enough the 1272 doesn't seem to have this issue. It's more vibey throughout, like the 1073 with the additional gain stage, but it doesn't really distort till we push it to 45db of gain and really blast it out, which Emily and I are known to do. It happens when you're singing at 110 db. Mostly that one lives at 40db for almost everything. I just adjust the output to not peak the converter.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 25, 2020 10:39:04 GMT -6
40 dB....the classic vintage fixed gain American preamp!
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 5, 2020 20:09:26 GMT -6
40 dB....the classic vintage fixed gain American preamp! I often hear it get crunchy though and it bothers me...I usually end up at 30 on the input.
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Post by EmRR on Dec 5, 2020 21:03:27 GMT -6
40 dB....the classic vintage fixed gain American preamp! I often hear it get crunchy though and it bothers me...I usually end up at 30 on the input. Also true of most of those american ‘classics’, but you can’t change gain so a pad is the only option....then it’s 20....
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