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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 15:03:26 GMT -6
Like EmRR said, it's handy to be able to grab physical knobs during a session. It's just the way I've worked for years and is comfortable. This would be a great way to add console workflow to modern studio tracking situations. How about this? Ditch the fader module idea and include it in the mixer module. The cascade input / output would have the summed outputs from the previous modules flowing into 1, 2, 3, 4, and master. Direct inputs and direct outputs. No need for expensive XLR connections. Direct outs would just be a mult off the input, post fader outs would be for connecting VU meters. You could stack 8 Iron Age channel strips in a rack above this and have a KILLER 8 channel tracking console. Or slap a pair of 8 space 500 series racks above and mix and match preamp/eq and have a sweet, compact 500 series console. If this could be had for $1000 or so, this could be a game changer for a lot of studios.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 15:05:29 GMT -6
This is what I'm thinking too, but I was thinking 19". Maybe a 3 space unit, 8 channels wide with 4 auxes per channel. You would need an additional input to scale between units. Then you could have a matching fader bank summing module. 8 faders with pan, mute, and solo buttons. Same situation with the added scaling inputs. Use DB25's for the main connections and xlr for the input scaling. Basically you could build your own 8 channel modular mixer per rack. It feels like this could be pretty inexpensive to build. If they could sell for $500 for 8 channels of aux and $1000 for fader modules, I imagine these would fly off the shelves. People would be Lego blocking 500 series consoles left and right. matt@IAA ? I like keeping with the 500 series layout,cause you could stack an 11 space rack above the aux/buss unit and it would all line up. It would also allow you to scale the system better in a conventional 19" 3u chassis. So, 11in x 8out, 4 stereo sends, mono/st assignment. 8 channels in a 19" rack leaves a lot of wasted space. I was envisioning the master buss being incorporated into the fader package. That way you could really scale the system to your needs, 11 faders at a time. The 22ch combo would be a little odd, but the 33ch option would be perfect in 3 rack widths. My thoughts anyway. I was thinking 8 channels so it would work well with the DB25 connectors. I feel like 10 channel would actually make the most sense though. There are a lot of 10 channel racks on the market and I'd rather have banks of 10 than 11.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 4, 2020 15:08:22 GMT -6
Like EmRR said, it's handy to be able to grab physical knobs during a session. It's just the way I've worked for years and is comfortable. This would be a great way to add console workflow to modern studio tracking situations. How about this? Ditch the fader module idea and include it in the mixer module. The cascade input / output would have the summed outputs from the previous modules flowing into 1, 2, 3, 4, and master. Direct inputs and direct outputs. No need for expensive XLR connections. Direct outs would just be a mult off the input, post fader outs would be for connecting VU meters. You could stack 8 Iron Age channel strips in a rack above this and have a KILLER 8 channel tracking console. Or slap a pair of 8 space 500 series racks above and mix and match preamp/eq and have a sweet, compact 500 series console. If this could be had for $1000 or so, this could be a game changer for a lot of studios. funny I've been brain storming this for my 500 series console. Pretty much what I want to do except 11 or 10 channels wide to match a 500 rack. Aux 4 needs to be a stereo bus though with it's own pan. And my main fader is already on a 500 card so mine would just be 4 aux sends. You also forgot to have a DB25 for the Aux outs.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 15:14:51 GMT -6
Like EmRR said, it's handy to be able to grab physical knobs during a session. It's just the way I've worked for years and is comfortable. This would be a great way to add console workflow to modern studio tracking situations. How about this? Ditch the fader module idea and include it in the mixer module. The cascade input / output would have the summed outputs from the previous modules flowing into 1, 2, 3, 4, and master. Direct inputs and direct outputs. No need for expensive XLR connections. Direct outs would just be a mult off the input, post fader outs would be for connecting VU meters. You could stack 8 Iron Age channel strips in a rack above this and have a KILLER 8 channel tracking console. Or slap a pair of 8 space 500 series racks above and mix and match preamp/eq and have a sweet, compact 500 series console. If this could be had for $1000 or so, this could be a game changer for a lot of studios. funny I've been brain storming this for my 500 series console. Pretty much what I want to do except 11 or 10 channels wide to match a 500 rack. Aux 4 needs to be a stereo bus though with it's own pan. And my main fader is already on a 500 card so mine would just be 4 aux sends. You also forgot to have a DB25 for the Aux outs. The DB25 cascade out could either be cascading to the next unit or be the aux/master outs at the end of the chain. Wouldn't need a separate one right? 3 mono and a stereo; 3 stereo; 2 mono and 2 stereo. Anything similar could work for me. Could even keep the master buss on a separate rack unit. 3 space for auxes, 1 space for the master buss.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 4, 2020 15:17:51 GMT -6
I see that Neve has a new medium format console out with 1073 preamps and total DAW integration. I see two problems with it - still not really enough mic pres (only 8) and it's expensive (about 50 grand). (They also make larger format versions with more channels for correspondinly more money.
Neve Genesys Black.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 4, 2020 15:31:48 GMT -6
Doug, you're using the MOTU rig for headphone mixes and your control room mix? That's the other option that I'm weighing, but nervous because I'm so used to doing all that stuff right on the board. I was, but it's a pain. Sometimes if I need a larger monitor mix count. I added a splitter patchbay and now have a parallel path into a Mackie for monitor mixes. Literally use nothing other than faders and pans. My ideal console for that would be maybe 12-18 inches deep, faders, pans, sends. Sweepable HPF would be a luxury. I've got this Altec 9200A sitting around waiting for me to restore it. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offers me a 'no refusing' amount for it before I ever get it going. It LOOKS amazing, not sure how truly useful it will prove to be as a full service console. It could do a single monitor mix.....the 8 channels with EQ are the premium part, but it's a hell of a lot of footprint for 8 channels of EQ. The 9200A, eh? Does yours have the 7 band graphic on the mix buss? That's the graphic that I have a pair of for 2 buss EQ.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2020 15:39:30 GMT -6
I've got this Altec 9200A sitting around waiting for me to restore it. The 9200A, eh? Does yours have the 7 band graphic on the mix buss? That's the graphic that I have a pair of for 2 buss EQ. No. Many did not, though it was an option. Mine may have, but there are small VU's that were once connected as LA-3 metering. It does have 8 channels with 9061A EQ's.
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Post by channelcat on Jan 4, 2020 18:38:15 GMT -6
I think that comes down to how it looks, and if it has a pedigree. “This console was used on xx record” is a nice pitch. My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... It looks amazing, but I don't see it being a client draw. Honestly I have no idea what is a client draw other than good results they can relate to, they're all different in perspective and knowledge. Most of them don't know what anything is outside of an SM57. It's like the 'tape, mannnn' era. Tape, any kind of tape, was a 'draw' that would sway people, and they'd go record on a 1/4" fostex cassette 8 track over 'that evil digital', even pay more for it, and make a shitty sounding record. View AttachmentI love Bad Brains! Was this Jerry Williams’ board from 171A in NYC?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2020 23:55:18 GMT -6
My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... I love Bad Brains! Was this Jerry Williams’ board from 171A in NYC? Came out of Omega in DC.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 5, 2020 2:44:59 GMT -6
funny I've been brain storming this for my 500 series console. Pretty much what I want to do except 11 or 10 channels wide to match a 500 rack. Aux 4 needs to be a stereo bus though with it's own pan. And my main fader is already on a 500 card so mine would just be 4 aux sends. You also forgot to have a DB25 for the Aux outs. The DB25 cascade out could either be cascading to the next unit or be the aux/master outs at the end of the chain. Wouldn't need a separate one right? 3 mono and a stereo; 3 stereo; 2 mono and 2 stereo. Anything similar could work for me. Could even keep the master buss on a separate rack unit. 3 space for auxes, 1 space for the master buss. Ah yes I see how you'd do it. Cool.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 5, 2020 17:22:09 GMT -6
Like EmRR said, it's handy to be able to grab physical knobs during a session. It's just the way I've worked for years and is comfortable. This would be a great way to add console workflow to modern studio tracking situations. How about this? Ditch the fader module idea and include it in the mixer module. The cascade input / output would have the summed outputs from the previous modules flowing into 1, 2, 3, 4, and master. Direct inputs and direct outputs. No need for expensive XLR connections. Direct outs would just be a mult off the input, post fader outs would be for connecting VU meters. You could stack 8 Iron Age channel strips in a rack above this and have a KILLER 8 channel tracking console. Or slap a pair of 8 space 500 series racks above and mix and match preamp/eq and have a sweet, compact 500 series console. If this could be had for $1000 or so, this could be a game changer for a lot of studios. If your going to go down this route and set it up so single rack space ch strips line up, forget rack mounting your aux box, some true custom metal work will net you 1 extra ch per 19in. You could still have each unit built as an 8ch.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 5, 2020 19:10:50 GMT -6
The problem with this idea is it’s nearly as complicated as just building a console. 😂
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Post by svart on Jan 6, 2020 9:07:51 GMT -6
svart , you get what I'm talking about here? I haven't been keeping up with this thread.. I guess I'll go back and read through it.. But what's the question?
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Post by mythundreamt on Jan 6, 2020 9:50:45 GMT -6
I may be misunderstanding something but doesn't Aurora Audio provide exactly this as part of their Ivar St stuff? Only you don't have to get the rest of it, just the 8x8 or 10x8 and then further sum with the 8x2 if you want? auroraaudio.net/products/consoles/gt10x8Lovely Neve color instead of lovely Wunder color is the only difference I see, well, plus that it exists.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 6, 2020 10:37:15 GMT -6
I may be misunderstanding something but doesn't Aurora Audio provide exactly this as part of their Ivar St stuff? Only you don't have to get the rest of it, just the 8x8 or 10x8 and then further sum with the 8x2 if you want? auroraaudio.net/products/consoles/gt10x8Lovely Neve color instead of lovely Wunder color is the only difference I see, well, plus that it exists. This doesn't allow individual level control to each aux though. If I have kick, snare, overheads, bass, guitar, vocals that I want to send to the musicians headphones, I need level control of 4 different auxes. Drummer is going to want a bunch of kick and bass, guitarist is going to only want screaming guitar, vocalist will want vocals and guitar, bassist will be confused. It doesn't look like this box would do that. I've been chatting with Matt pretty in depth. Basically, I want a full blown console, but scaled down and without the pricetag. The Looptrotter seems to check all the boxes, other than the price. It's basically router and a few 500 buckets for $23k. A Behringer and some Lindell 510's would do the same duties. I want something in between those options.
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Post by mythundreamt on Jan 6, 2020 13:06:00 GMT -6
Whoosh, completely missed the level control part. Yeah, these are busses not auxes I guess.
Something from Matt would definitely be the way to go! Iron Age console group buy?
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 6, 2020 20:56:11 GMT -6
My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... It looks amazing, but I don't see it being a client draw. Honestly I have no idea what is a client draw other than good results they can relate to, they're all different in perspective and knowledge. Most of them don't know what anything is outside of an SM57. It's like the 'tape, mannnn' era. Tape, any kind of tape, was a 'draw' that would sway people, and they'd go record on a 1/4" fostex cassette 8 track over 'that evil digital', even pay more for it, and make a shitty sounding record. I love Bad Brains! Was this Jerry Williams’ board from 171A in NYC? I used to service the Bad Brains amps whenever they hit San Francisco. Really nice guys....
Cassette was 3/16", not 1/4".
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Post by EmRR on Jan 6, 2020 21:15:45 GMT -6
Cassette was 3/16", not 1/4".
No shit. I thought it was 1/8". Or 5/32". I couldn't decide which shitty Fostex to reference so I ass-crammed them together. Actually.....I do have an RCA 1/4" cassette machine....comically big compared to what we commonly know.....
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 7, 2020 0:09:06 GMT -6
Cassette was 3/16", not 1/4".
No shit. I thought it was 1/8". Or 5/32". I couldn't decide which shitty Fostex to reference so I ass-crammed them together. Actually.....I do have an RCA 1/4" cassette machine....comically big compared to what we commonly know..... REALLY?!
I have in fact seen at least one of those in person. What a white whale of a format!
BTW IIRC 1/8" tape did get used in at least some microcassettes. I think. I really didn't pay much attention to those things, not being James Bond.
It's really skinny.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 8, 2020 22:36:03 GMT -6
Cassette was 3/16", not 1/4".
No shit. I thought it was 1/8". Or 5/32". I couldn't decide which shitty Fostex to reference so I ass-crammed them together. Actually.....I do have an RCA 1/4" cassette machine....comically big compared to what we commonly know..... Actually the spec was 3.8mm, I never remember seeing the bulk tape labeled in inches, every box had 3.8mm on it.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jan 11, 2020 7:09:04 GMT -6
Sony El Cassette 1/4 inch
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Post by chessparov on Jan 12, 2020 14:36:54 GMT -6
Sounds Kewl. Chris
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Post by chessparov on Jan 12, 2020 14:38:42 GMT -6
Cassette was 3/16", not 1/4".
No shit. I thought it was 1/8". Or 5/32". I couldn't decide which shitty Fostex to reference so I ass-crammed them together. Actually.....I do have an RCA 1/4" cassette machine....comically big compared to what we commonly know..... Actually a cassette machine, that's only a quarter inch long, seems pretty darn small to me. (rimshot please!) Chris
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Post by nobtwiddler on Jan 12, 2020 15:29:52 GMT -6
Just in case someone didn't know what I was talking about... Attachments:
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Post by chessparov on Jan 12, 2020 16:47:49 GMT -6
I bet those go for a pretty penny now. I wonder how much a Nak Dragon might be nowadays too. Chris
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