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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 30, 2019 12:33:11 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? Depends who your clients are. If you’re talking about bands/musicians I’d say it’s not that important. IME clients don’t know anything about consoles and are easily impressed with anything that has lots of buttons and blinking lights. If you’re clients are freelance engineers than yes I think it would matter. In that case I’d add Trident, Daking, MCI, Audient, Neotek,Quad 8, and even Soundcraft to your list.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 30, 2019 13:14:37 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? Depends who your clients are. If you’re talking about bands/musicians I’d say it’s not that important. IME clients don’t know anything about consoles and are easily impressed with anything that has lots of buttons and blinking lights. If you’re clients are freelance engineers than yes I think it would matter. In that case I’d add Trident, Daking, MCI, Audient, Neotek,Quad 8, and even Soundcraft to your list. I would add Pro Tools HDX, or an older 10HD setup if you’re hoping to bring in working freelance engineers. But that doesn’t mean you’d have to use it!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 30, 2019 13:19:28 GMT -6
I think that comes down to how it looks, and if it has a pedigree. “This console was used on xx record” is a nice pitch. My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... It looks amazing, but I don't see it being a client draw. Honestly I have no idea what is a client draw other than good results they can relate to, they're all different in perspective and knowledge. Most of them don't know what anything is outside of an SM57. It's like the 'tape, mannnn' era. Tape, any kind of tape, was a 'draw' that would sway people, and they'd go record on a 1/4" fostex cassette 8 track over 'that evil digital', even pay more for it, and make a shitty sounding record.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 30, 2019 14:07:27 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? The same model ADAT that was used on "Jagged Little Pill"? Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2019 14:33:08 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? The question you need to ask before going down that road is do I want the client that booked because of the console?
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Post by jamiesego on Dec 30, 2019 15:25:35 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? The question you need to ask before going down that road is do I want the client that booked because of the console? 👆🏻 This is something to think about. As someone trying to run a studio in an economically challenged area, trying to recoup investment on an expensive console would probably price us out of reach of independent artist doing interesting music. On the other hand you need something attractive to bring artists in from other parts of the country or world. Ideally that thing would be a record you worked on but that’s hard to achieve.
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2019 15:45:48 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? As others have mentioned, it all depends on who your clients are. If YOU are the engineer, you can have and do whatever you want - or even NO console. It all boils down to your reputation and how good you are. Gear of any kind won't matter. If your clients are engineers, and you're just managing the studio, then yeah - you might want to go big. Neve or API if tracking, SSL if mixing. Console wise - EVERYTHING else - even if amazing - is a big step down for Engineers. You'll have an uphill battle to get them to work on your modded Soundcraft, or Amek, or Neotek, or Taking - even though it may very well outperform the big guns. Oh, and as mentioned - HDX, HDX, HDX!!! You gotta have it if you're trying to bring in ENGINEERS as your clients. I would never book a studio without HDX if I was tracking a band. I don't care how good the room was, or what kind of console they have, or how proficient at Cubase or Logic the owner was. It's just not going to happen. If he's engineering all the sessions himself, then really, the entire thread is moot. Buy a console, don't buy a console, use Cubase or Logic, do what you want, etc.. The best money a studio can spend is on the lounge and cappuccino machine and a cool vibe. Closely followed by your reputation and credits. Gear as much as we love it falls to a way distant third place.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 30, 2019 15:45:58 GMT -6
The channel count is lower than what's asked, but I would most definitely get a Tree Audio tube console: www.treeaudio.com
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2019 15:53:19 GMT -6
Would anything other than SSL, Neve, or API be any client draw? Sure. Anything that looks like a big console will bring people in. Doesn't mean they expect you to use it. I have a few friends that mix at big studio and they never use the console..sad. I almost always agree with you Blackdawg, but as an owner of several LFAC big ass consoles over a couple of decades, I can safely say that the console itself never (or next to never, cause it's sometimes hard to know) brought in clients. Sure, they would oooo and awwww over it, but it's not what brought them to the table. I will say that having that hardware sitting in the studio tends to give you credibility though - even if you are not fully up to the game.....
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2019 15:54:38 GMT -6
The channel count is lower than what's asked, but I would most definitely get a Tree Audio tube console: www.treeaudio.comCool. But only if he's doing all the sessions himself. No one else is going to know what it is, and it won't be a "draw".
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 30, 2019 16:14:14 GMT -6
The best money a studio can spend is on the lounge and cappuccino machine and a cool vibe. Closely followed by your reputation and credits. Gear as much as we love it falls to a way distant third place. -- THIS --
I've gotten so many gigs just because my place (former garage build out) look cool. Clients couldn't tell a Behringer from an API pre but they loved the vibe. And its no small thing, its not just vanity. Having a comfortable place, that is relaxing, stress free, and conducive to the artistic process can and will have a direct effect on the finished product.
Also having great COFFEE...because, well you know.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 30, 2019 16:22:37 GMT -6
Or just be sorta like Spielberg, or David Geffen... Have the first studio meeting with a vast "Abbey Road-like"/Battleship Galactica Console right there. (Then take that rented console out, right after the big session downpayment!) Chris P.S. But leave the Mr. Coffee machine.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2019 16:38:40 GMT -6
The question you need to ask before going down that road is do I want the client that booked because of the console? 👆🏻 This is something to think about. As someone trying to run a studio in an economically challenged area, trying to recoup investment on an expensive console would probably price us out of reach of independent artist doing interesting music. On the other hand you need something attractive to bring artists in from other parts of the country or world. Ideally that thing would be a record you worked on but that’s hard to achieve. I was thinking more in terms of the type and demands of the client who is going to chose your place because of the console. Honestly outside of the major music markets the client who books based on console is probably booking more based on hype than knowledge and that can only end in disappointment.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 30, 2019 17:08:33 GMT -6
Anyone checked out the new Trident/PMI 78 console? Feature set is nice for the price. Scares me that it's from the same company behind the Toft boards and they're based on the same stuff.
At the same time, I love the Tonelux stuff. Tonelux console would be magic.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 30, 2019 17:35:09 GMT -6
Anyone checked out the new Trident/PMI 78 console? Feature set is nice for the price. Scares me that it's from the same company behind the Toft boards and they're based on the same stuff. At the same time, I love the Tonelux stuff. Tonelux console would be magic. When I saw the prototype at NAMM a number of years ago I thought it was really cramped and really was built to a price point. Remember the Tonelux modules predate PMI buying Tonelux.
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 30, 2019 18:27:49 GMT -6
Sure. Anything that looks like a big console will bring people in. Doesn't mean they expect you to use it. I have a few friends that mix at big studio and they never use the console..sad. I almost always agree with you Blackdawg, but as an owner of several LFAC big ass consoles over a couple of decades, I can safely say that the console itself never (or next to never, cause it's sometimes hard to know) brought in clients. Sure, they would oooo and awwww over it, but it's not what brought them to the table. I will say that having that hardware sitting in the studio tends to give you credibility though - even if you are not fully up to the game..... Haha that is fair! I more meant the "ooo and awe" factor. It does contribute to the vibe that the studio is more "professional". But like I also said, doesn't usually matter because they rarely actually care if you use it or not. Most my friends have access to SSL consoles at the studios they work in and almost never do anything other than monitor a stereo pair through it.
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Post by drbill on Dec 30, 2019 18:51:45 GMT -6
I almost always agree with you Blackdawg, but as an owner of several LFAC big ass consoles over a couple of decades, I can safely say that the console itself never (or next to never, cause it's sometimes hard to know) brought in clients. Sure, they would oooo and awwww over it, but it's not what brought them to the table. I will say that having that hardware sitting in the studio tends to give you credibility though - even if you are not fully up to the game..... Haha that is fair! I more meant the "ooo and awe" factor. It does contribute to the vibe that the studio is more "professional". But like I also said, doesn't usually matter because they rarely actually care if you use it or not. Most my friends have access to SSL consoles at the studios they work in and almost never do anything other than monitor a stereo pair through it. haha! I used to work at a studio that had the largest API in the Western US. It had Neve Flying Faders option on it. Very super cool console. But often, I was using only a 2 track return on the console - straight out of Pro Tools - as well as the big a** CRM volume knob. LOL. The owner used to come in and ask me how I was liking the console - expecting high praise from me no doubt. (They custom built it, and he was very proud of it...). Then I would point at the faders on the desk, all down. LOL. Then point to PT. I don't know if he saw the writing on the wall, but eventually he did open up a PT only 3rd room with a nice Icon in it. Sadly, the studio is no longer available for use....
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Post by BradM on Dec 30, 2019 20:39:29 GMT -6
Anyone checked out the new Trident/PMI 78 console? Feature set is nice for the price. Scares me that it's from the same company behind the Toft boards and they're based on the same stuff. At the same time, I love the Tonelux stuff. Tonelux console would be magic. The designs of the new Trident 68/78/88 consoles were done by a very competent team with many decades of console experience including the late John Petrucelli (the "P" from APB Dynasonics). I say this confidently, because I've worked with some of those same people on Kush products and LTL products over the last ten years. It's true - those Toft boards were not great. I used to own a Toft ATB24 before I traded up for a D&R Vision. My understanding is that they are not based on the Toft consoles at all and are new designs from the ground up. I've looked at them up close at multiple NAMM tradeshows and and was impressed by the mechanical design, modularity, and use of modern components. I can't remember if I was looking at the 78 or the 88, but they have an actual backplane connecting all the modules with very rugged connectors. If I were personally shopping for a console in the $15k to $40k range I'd be looking at these new Trident consoles very seriously. The feature set is extensive and flexible, they look great, and they are designed by people I know. Brad
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 30, 2019 23:01:12 GMT -6
Anyone checked out the new Trident/PMI 78 console? Feature set is nice for the price. Scares me that it's from the same company behind the Toft boards and they're based on the same stuff. At the same time, I love the Tonelux stuff. Tonelux console would be magic. The designs of the new Trident 68/78/88 consoles were done by a very competent team with many decades of console experience including the late John Petrucelli (the "P" from APB Dynasonics). I say this confidently, because I've worked with some of those same people on Kush products and LTL products over the last ten years. It's true - those Toft boards were not great. I used to own a Toft ATB24 before I traded up for a D&R Vision. My understanding is that they are not based on the Toft consoles at all and are new designs from the ground up. I've looked at them up close at multiple NAMM tradeshows and and was impressed by the mechanical design, modularity, and use of modern components. I can't remember if I was looking at the 78 or the 88, but they have an actual backplane connecting all the modules with very rugged connectors. If I were personally shopping for a console in the $15k to $40k range I'd be looking at these new Trident consoles very seriously. The feature set is extensive and flexible, they look great, and they are designed by people I know. Brad Great to know brother. Thanks.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 31, 2019 0:15:18 GMT -6
I got no space so maybe a tricked out Ghost. And lots of outboard. Maybe it wouldn’t have that much smaller a footprint than other options that would be sonically superior? Cheers, Geoff I wouldn’t even mod the Ghost, personally. We had a stock one for foldback when I was tracking to 2” 15ish years ago, and it’s great for monitoring if you just watch your headroom. But it will never be a vibey front end. Fair enough. I was mainly thinking small(er) footprint but a couple of better sonically things gave been brought up. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Ward on Dec 31, 2019 8:57:23 GMT -6
Wow. All that wood paneling and shag carpeting.
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Post by adamjbrass on Dec 31, 2019 9:13:30 GMT -6
16 channel D.W Fearn Mixer with 16 VT series mic amps as the front end, (mic pre direct output/channel-to-master switchable to a line input) Gotta have big rotary knobs, no faders, two mono Aux outs, master section/monitor out with large VU's and an even larger master volume rotary knob. all tube electronics. Red. I could skip the mic inputs and get two VT-24 boxes to put in the rack.
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Post by john on Dec 31, 2019 9:46:27 GMT -6
I think that comes down to how it looks, and if it has a pedigree. “This console was used on xx record” is a nice pitch. My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... It looks amazing, but I don't see it being a client draw. Honestly I have no idea what is a client draw other than good results they can relate to, they're all different in perspective and knowledge. Most of them don't know what anything is outside of an SM57. It's like the 'tape, mannnn' era. Tape, any kind of tape, was a 'draw' that would sway people, and they'd go record on a 1/4" fostex cassette 8 track over 'that evil digital', even pay more for it, and make a shitty sounding record. She’s a gem. Would trade my vehicle for it.
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 31, 2019 9:47:29 GMT -6
I think that comes down to how it looks, and if it has a pedigree. “This console was used on xx record” is a nice pitch. My 9200A was used on the first Cheech and Chong record and some of the first Bad Brains stuff. I smell a trend....no really, take that outside dude..... It looks amazing, but I don't see it being a client draw. Honestly I have no idea what is a client draw other than good results they can relate to, they're all different in perspective and knowledge. Most of them don't know what anything is outside of an SM57. It's like the 'tape, mannnn' era. Tape, any kind of tape, was a 'draw' that would sway people, and they'd go record on a 1/4" fostex cassette 8 track over 'that evil digital', even pay more for it, and make a shitty sounding record. View AttachmentThat is a gorgeous console!
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Post by keymod on Dec 31, 2019 13:41:22 GMT -6
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