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Post by dmo on Dec 28, 2019 10:07:09 GMT -6
Just brought home my answer to this question - 1 year old 24 channel Audient 8024 HE. Would provide pics but still in o'seas shipping crate - maybe I can post some later today
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 28, 2019 10:08:21 GMT -6
That's basically what the API 8200A does in my rack pictured above. I can use it for bussing a few mics together while tracking, and or I can have 4 x Auxes, using the stereo buss and Aux 1 & 2 for headphones. Plus I still have the Aux on the Neve 8816.
Pretty Flexible.
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Post by nnajar on Dec 28, 2019 10:10:45 GMT -6
you couldn't pay me to put a console in my room. I am perfectly happy with an HDX rig and a few Eucon surfaces. And I track full ensembles with multiple cues, etc....
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Post by keymod on Dec 28, 2019 10:19:24 GMT -6
Just brought home my answer to this question - 1 year old 24 channel Audient 8024 HE. Would provide pics but still in o'seas shipping crate - maybe I can post some later today Are you buying it? Beautiful console
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2019 10:37:46 GMT -6
Or Something like this.... I designed and built 4 of these.... Works amazingly well in and out of the normal studio confines. 10 minute setup! How are the musicians monitoring? NVM, answered above.
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Post by dmo on Dec 28, 2019 10:42:20 GMT -6
Keymod, yes, bought a while ago, had to transit from Australia to here, cleared customs morning of the 24th, brought home 26th.
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Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2019 10:49:59 GMT -6
you couldn't pay me to put a console in my room. I am perfectly happy with an HDX rig and a few Eucon surfaces. And I track full ensembles with multiple cues, etc.... I'm pretty much right there with you. After decades of having consoles, not using a good portion of the controls in front of me, I'm super happy with a mastering style desk filled with my favorite, much used hardware. The main benefit is that now I can HEAR so much better. The one HUGE thing that sealed the deal for me was how much the reflections off the console were coloring what I was hearing. Honestly, I couldn't believe it. And I had a well built room inside a room professionally designed control room with angled double walls, pro-designed treatment, etc.. Right before I moved to my current studio, the buyers bank made me tent the house and studio for termite extermination. There was no way I was leaving all the gear in that chemical mess, so I de-installed the studio and put it into temporary storage for a week or so while they tented and fumigated. I was moving two weeks later, so I didn't want to re-install everything - but I had a project I needed to be mixing, so I put back in a pair of speakers, my HDX rig, and a small table with my keyboard mouse. The rest of the room was empty. The change in sonics between the previous incarnation and that stripped down room without console was was quite literally jaw dropping. And right there, I knew I needed to find a solution. It's the dirty little secret in the studio world. You get your room tweaked, then you put a big ass bunch of gear - or worse a console - smack dab in the middle of it, and watch your beautifully tuned room disappear. I do miss a console sometimes, but I'm resigned to never going back.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2019 10:54:14 GMT -6
you couldn't pay me to put a console in my room. I am perfectly happy with an HDX rig and a few Eucon surfaces. And I track full ensembles with multiple cues, etc.... Got a pic of your setup? Are you running all over the room to gain, eq, and compress on the way in or do you have a more ergonomic setup?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2019 10:58:41 GMT -6
you couldn't pay me to put a console in my room. I am perfectly happy with an HDX rig and a few Eucon surfaces. And I track full ensembles with multiple cues, etc.... I'm pretty much right there with you. After decades of having consoles, not using a good portion of the controls in front of me, I'm super happy with a mastering style desk filled with my favorite, much used hardware. The main benefit is that now I can HEAR so much better. The one HUGE thing that sealed the deal for me was how much the reflections off the console were coloring what I was hearing. Honestly, I couldn't believe it. And I had a well built room inside a room professionally designed control room with angled double walls, pro-designed treatment, etc.. Right before I moved to my current studio, the buyers bank made me tent the house and studio for termite extermination. There was no way I was leaving all the gear in that chemical mess, so I de-installed the studio and put it into temporary storage for a week or so while they tented and fumigated. I was moving two weeks later, so I didn't want to re-install everything - but I had a project I needed to be mixing, so I put back in a pair of speakers, my HDX rig, and a small table with my keyboard mouse. The rest of the room was empty. The change in sonics between the previous incarnation and that stripped down room without console was was quite literally jaw dropping. And right there, I knew I needed to find a solution. It's the dirty little secret in the studio world. You get your room tweaked, then you put a big ass bunch of gear - or worse a console - smack dab in the middle of it, and watch your beautifully tuned room disappear. I do miss a console sometimes, but I'm resigned to never going back. You're definitely in a different situation than I am though. I'm strictly tracking in my studio and mixing at home. I really love the console workflow for tracking, but I think you've absolutely got the right thing going for mixing.
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 28, 2019 10:59:50 GMT -6
An aux in that context is no different than a bus, unless I misunderstand you. The “tough” part to what you’re describing is returns. I don't want to purchase 8 summing mixers or whatever though. If I could get like a 24x8 rack mixer with just a bunch of knobs in 3 rack spaces, that would be cool. Right, and then they don’t talk to each other either so the aux is limited to the number of inputs of each rack mixer (unless they can be daisy chained like some of the API units). The hard part about that becomes faceplate real estate. I think something like that is a feasible DIY project, then you can get what you want exactly. And, unless you’re going for mega mojo it can be pretty simple / affordable with ICs (balanced I/O like TI or THAT and 5532 or 5534 for everything else).
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Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2019 11:12:31 GMT -6
I'm pretty much right there with you. After decades of having consoles, not using a good portion of the controls in front of me, I'm super happy with a mastering style desk filled with my favorite, much used hardware. The main benefit is that now I can HEAR so much better. The one HUGE thing that sealed the deal for me was how much the reflections off the console were coloring what I was hearing. Honestly, I couldn't believe it. And I had a well built room inside a room professionally designed control room with angled double walls, pro-designed treatment, etc.. Right before I moved to my current studio, the buyers bank made me tent the house and studio for termite extermination. There was no way I was leaving all the gear in that chemical mess, so I de-installed the studio and put it into temporary storage for a week or so while they tented and fumigated. I was moving two weeks later, so I didn't want to re-install everything - but I had a project I needed to be mixing, so I put back in a pair of speakers, my HDX rig, and a small table with my keyboard mouse. The rest of the room was empty. The change in sonics between the previous incarnation and that stripped down room without console was was quite literally jaw dropping. And right there, I knew I needed to find a solution. It's the dirty little secret in the studio world. You get your room tweaked, then you put a big ass bunch of gear - or worse a console - smack dab in the middle of it, and watch your beautifully tuned room disappear. I do miss a console sometimes, but I'm resigned to never going back. You're definitely in a different situation than I am though. I'm strictly tracking in my studio and mixing at home. I really love the console workflow for tracking, but I think you've absolutely got the right thing going for mixing. yeah, no doubt. If I was primarily tracking - or running a TRULY old school tape based studio, I probably wouldn't have sold the console. These days it's "mostly" overdubs and mixing - with the occasional larger ensemble tracking, but that's more rare, and you gotta do what you gotta do, and getting rid of those reflections have made mixing so much easier. As for the "color" thing, given the choice again, I honestly think I'd go for a more transparent console. Otherwise you had better Love, love LOVE the sound of your board from here to eternity, cause it's going to color EVERYthing you run thru it. Having the D&R with a lot of outboard, and a Silver Bullet on the master bus gave me a lot of options. A transparent console with inserts on individual channels connected to your favorite colored gear - or NOT - will take you a long way towards your destination. With the flexibility to mix things up when needed. Back in the day, guys with colored consoles - like say....80 series Neves - used to fight that color all day long. LOL. Now we seek to attain that. Times change....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Dec 28, 2019 11:22:21 GMT -6
a few years ago a friend of mine acquired something similar to this from one of the Portland tv stations - www.preservationsound.com/2012/09/adm-consoles-of-the-1970-and-1980s/The station was upgrading their broadcast setup at the time changing to some newfangled digital setup and another friend of ours had the tear out job contract. The stations attitude was if you can dismantle this console and haul it out of here you can have it. Kind of awesome when this sort of thing happens... My pal has been building a control booth in his space and getting closer to finishing it up but meanwhile the ADM console and modules have been sitting there covered up in the corner and I would love to see it all get hooked up and do some tracking and mixing on this thing - so yes dreams do come true sometimes it just takes awhile I pulled a 12 channel ADM console out of a broadcast station about 4 months ago. Just about to get started reconfiguring it. I got one channel going and then pres and 4 band eq’s sound awesome. There were two other consoles that we didn’t have enough time to get out of there so I went in and pulled all of the pre/line-in cards and eq’s out. They are kinda piled up until we can figure out what to do with them.
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Post by BradM on Dec 28, 2019 11:22:48 GMT -6
Imagine that you've got a great studio space, nice live room, control room, and 3 iso booths. Strictly a tracking studio. 30k or so would be top of budget. What sort of board would you grab? I would design and build one from scratch that more optimally suits my present hybrid workflow. I have some ideas. As they say, when you want something done right... Brad
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 28, 2019 11:25:11 GMT -6
Imagine that you've got a great studio space, nice live room, control room, and 3 iso booths. Strictly a tracking studio. 30k or so would be top of budget. What sort of board would you grab? I would design and build one from scratch that more optimally suits my present hybrid workflow. I have some ideas. As they say, when you want something done right... Brad Most of my designs are part of my imaginary someday console project. Someday....
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Post by christopher on Dec 28, 2019 11:37:56 GMT -6
Just FYI in case you are curious... I've been doing mobile tracking using software to build monitor mixes in RME totalmix. I've no doubt gained some pounds because of it, its so damn stressful! The artist is ready to go, giving me feedback about their monitor mix and suggestions about the track and mix in general, asking a million questions, and I'm sitting there mousing around with my one finger trying to make as many adjustments as possible, as quick as possible, and pretend I heard anything they said.
On a console I can work like a live situation: two hands and make a move per second if I'm really feeling the pressure, and by the time they start their next sentence I've already solved their last request. In the software mode, the artist requests are lining up faster than I can scroll around and knock them out. I have to pause what I'm doing, make a list of whatever they are asking me while I'm trying not to forget the last thing they requested. All while listening to their current comments. I've always have those moments where the requests pile up, but this seems to be a LOT more frequent, almost constant. So the solution I've used has been to slow way down, take each request slowly, document it, have a little conversation about it, let them know when I finished their request. Its been almost no fun for me, just feels like constantly being interrupted. And I know its because I'm adjusting trim, EQ, fader level, pan, solo, mute, all at much slower pace. I guess I need to improve my keyboard shortcut ninja skills.
The simplest braindead solution in my head is still "grab knob... turn knob" that way I can listen and look them in the face at the same time?
So whatever solution, see if you can avoid this mistake.
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Post by Quint on Dec 28, 2019 11:59:46 GMT -6
It's the dirty little secret in the studio world. You get your room tweaked, then you put a big ass bunch of gear - or worse a console - smack dab in the middle of it, and watch your beautifully tuned room disappear. I do miss a console sometimes, but I'm resigned to never going back. That begs the question then. Why not tune your room AFTER you have all of your stuff in it?
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Post by notneeson on Dec 28, 2019 12:07:20 GMT -6
I’d look for something like a Trident 70 or 80 if you are thinking about something with a little mojo. I think the world has caught on to Quad 8 and Spectrasonic consoles and those deals aren’t around. You might find a Auditronics desk. The Studer 169 (and whatever their larger brothers are) might still be out there at reasonable prices. Thanks man. Any idea how the maintenance is on those older Tridents? I don't want something that's always going to need work. That's my big worry with an older or oddball board. Finding parts too... The Trident TSM I've worked on often has a channel or two out and also had it's patchbay completely rebuilt/replaced by John Klett within the last few years. (That's it in my avatar). Ryan, the owner, work on it himself to a certain extent, I think. Having a channel or two down is no big deal, as it's 40 input and there are more than I've ever needed during tracking. The pres are great, until you clip them. They're IC based and don't break up in a flattering way. I think you'd have to expect maintenance to some degree.
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Post by mulmany on Dec 28, 2019 12:17:31 GMT -6
Purple had an aux module that went with their modular 500 series console...not sure if they ever were released.
MFTwenty5!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2019 12:23:09 GMT -6
I guess I could put together a few racks of gear in signal chains, and mult at the end of the chains.
1 mult to the converters 1 to a summer for monitoring 1 to something like a mix wizard 12m for headphone mixes.
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Post by sean on Dec 28, 2019 12:29:43 GMT -6
For some reason I didn’t even think about the console I use every day...a Sony MXP3036
It is a modular design and you can get preamps and EQs from API, John Hardy, Fossell and a few others. There’s a great support group run by the designer as well. They are usually like $5000 or so. Pretty easy to work on, some custom made op amps and stuff but if a channel goes down spares are readily available. Just a thought.
At home I think I’m going to go to the SSL Sigma and a Nucleus or a pair of Artist Mix controllers. Seems like if I commit the workflow will suit how I’d like to mix.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 28, 2019 12:37:42 GMT -6
I guess I could put together a few racks of gear in signal chains, and mult at the end of the chains. 1 mult to the converters 1 to a summer for monitoring 1 to something like a mix wizard 12m for headphone mixes. Ah, if I read that right, one of the challenges you're addressing is latency? For context, and not to proselytize at all, all of the studios I frequent monitor right off of HD or HDX. Not for everybody, but it works great for me.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 28, 2019 12:48:01 GMT -6
I guess I could put together a few racks of gear in signal chains, and mult at the end of the chains. 1 mult to the converters 1 to a summer for monitoring 1 to something like a mix wizard 12m for headphone mixes. Ah, if I read that right, one of the challenges you're addressing is latency? For context, and not to proselytize at all, all of the studios I frequent monitor right off of HD or HDX. Not for everybody, but it works great for me. I could avoid latency with my MOTU routing, but I just prefer grabbing knobs to build mixes. Years of live sound work habits.
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Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2019 13:18:54 GMT -6
That begs the question then. Why not tune your room AFTER you have all of your stuff in it?
Well, of course. In a perfect world, you build a room within a room to the shape and dimensions that will hopefully achieve your acoustic goals and keep the rest of the world outside. THEN, you put **** in it that completely messes with your design. (Never ceases to amaze me that some folks go to incredible lengths to tune their room, then eventually fill it with incredible amounts of gear stacked in acoustically horrible places that totally destroys the original vision with crazy reflections. You know what I mean, I'm sure you've seen these places.). I do it too. It's inevitable. But.....the most obvious and biggest piece of reflective crap is of course your console, and you can make mid-course corrections, but you can't stop the reflections off the console from hitting you square in the face. There is no solution for that aside from headphones. You can do ceiling treatments to deal with ceiling reflections. You can angle and treat walls to deal with room nodes and reflections. Some engineers even put a blanket or other soft material across the console when it comes time to make final decisions on a mix. Others mix very softly on near fields or even headphones. Studio's spend 10's and even hundreds of thousands dealing with this exact issue. But I am not aware of an effective way to ELIMINATE the huge reflection a console drives into your face. It's just something that we learn to live with. When I told Hedback this during the design phase of my new studio, he REALLY advised not putting my console into the new room. Honestly, I would have gone on living with it, blissfully in denial - UNTIL serendipity made me actually remove my console and associated gear from the old CRM - and I heard the staggering difference that I had just grown accustomed to. At that point, I came to realize that after living with it a couple of decades I was no longer willing to just take it as a de facto given and go on in the same fashion. And that decision drove me to make accommodations to eliminate it as much as possible. (Not sure it's ever possible to eliminate it completely.)
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Post by dmo on Dec 28, 2019 13:22:51 GMT -6
my background playing/live sound as well,so much more familiar/comfortable with a console currently. Opened the crate, looks like console survived shipment. Now need a couple strong boddies to help move. Attachments:
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 28, 2019 13:26:06 GMT -6
A 24 channel Speck LILO might work nicely for you. You could tie in all your current outboard, maybe fit everything into an argosy style desk to make it all more ergonomic.
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