ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2019 14:21:09 GMT -6
The guy behind Sphere, Dunkin, has burned so many bridges over the years that most wouldn’t go near the thing if it was the second coming!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 15:55:24 GMT -6
I was thinking recently that it would be awesome to have 8 Daking pre/eq's feeding a sweet 10 with 8 compressors or Mr. Focus things... stuff like that, summed to a Moiyn, fed to a Silver Bullet/SSL type compressor. I think I could actually make that happen over time. Beyond that, real consoles are kind of out of reach, with the exception of maybe a Neotek, which I also wouldn't mind one bit.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 31, 2019 16:36:01 GMT -6
The guy behind Sphere, Dunkin, has burned so many bridges over the years that most wouldn’t go near the thing if it was the second coming! I literally emailed him an hour ago about his 80B. I've made a couple purchases from him before and haven't had trouble. Nothing BIG though.
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Post by sean on Dec 31, 2019 17:57:53 GMT -6
The guy behind Sphere, Dunkin, has burned so many bridges over the years that most wouldn’t go near the thing if it was the second coming! I literally emailed him an hour ago about his 80B. I've made a couple purchases from him before and haven't had trouble. Nothing BIG though. It really depends on who he's brokering that console from. I haven't had the best experiences with Duncan...definitely helped install and continue to work on some "not as advertised" consoles...including the Series 70 in my laundry room haha.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 1, 2020 10:51:28 GMT -6
I was thinking recently that it would be awesome to have 8 Daking pre/eq's feeding a sweet 10 with 8 compressors or Mr. Focus things... stuff like that, summed to a Moiyn, fed to a Silver Bullet/SSL type compressor. I think I could actually make that happen over time. Beyond that, real consoles are kind of out of reach, with the exception of maybe a Neotek, which I also wouldn't mind one bit. This is what I'm doing. CAPI ML2S with inserts to send to out hard via analog. This allows analog gain staging for compression which is very important and allows the DA to operate at full scale. To SOLO8 vca boxes. Analog automation. To CAPI SumBuss. Back end of the console. Silver bullet in fulcrum mode to make up 6dB from SumBuss and tweaks to final sound. At other outboard as needed to mix bus. Easily recallable(other than some outboard possibly on the inserts). 100% analog. Big console sound in about 16U of space. The CAPI console. So to speak. Hoping it works out. I'm in process of building it. And testing the concept for the insert sends.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 3, 2020 18:23:15 GMT -6
I’d go for a 1608 or The Box II Ever used the box 2? Seems like it could actually be pretty useful.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 3, 2020 20:28:03 GMT -6
I wouldn't even buy donuts off 'Dunkin'. The guy behind Sphere, Dunkin, has burned so many bridges over the years that most wouldn’t go near the thing if it was the second coming!
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 3, 2020 21:09:36 GMT -6
Still think this is the best option for an affordable customize able console really: looptrotter.com/modular-console/Plus flying faders is supposed to be coming for Wiess Audio. Easily expandable. And can alway swap modules in it for recording one day, mixing another if you wanted.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 3, 2020 22:03:22 GMT -6
Still think this is the best option for an affordable customize able console really: looptrotter.com/modular-console/Plus flying faders is supposed to be coming for Wiess Audio. Easily expandable. And can alway swap modules in it for recording one day, mixing another if you wanted. I feel like the looptrotter boxes me into the 500 series too much. I've got bunch of 19" gear already and would end up with a half full console. I love the concept though. With the Box2, I could use channel strips and rack pres that I already have through the summing section. First 8 channels through the API preamps and 500 eq's. Then a mash up through the summing section.
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Post by mulmany on Jan 3, 2020 23:30:54 GMT -6
What you need is a modular aux unit and master buss unit, that can be linked together across channels and feed by any line level source.
I would personally like to see it in 500 series chassis. 11 channels with 4 stereo auxs, xlr and elco I/O, linking buss outputs. Create standard 4 aux modules and one master. This would be a custom backplane, just using the form factor from API.
3x 11ch units would provide 32ch of aux inputs and a master aux output. Do the same for a pan/fader/master module. Aux would all be pre fader by default, but could have a jumper for connecting to the fader module if desired.
With this you could use any type of input, mix and match 500 and rack formats.
It would be more wiring... But who doesn't like wiring! Scalable and could be made to travel very well.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 4, 2020 2:12:52 GMT -6
Still think this is the best option for an affordable customize able console really: looptrotter.com/modular-console/Plus flying faders is supposed to be coming for Wiess Audio. Easily expandable. And can alway swap modules in it for recording one day, mixing another if you wanted. I feel like the looptrotter boxes me into the 500 series too much. I've got bunch of 19" gear already and would end up with a half full console. I love the concept though. With the Box2, I could use channel strips and rack pres that I already have through the summing section. First 8 channels through the API preamps and 500 eq's. Then a mash up through the summing section. Well you don't have to use the 500 stuff. You can still send line level from your outboard mic pres to it. Then if you start to get into 500 gear for mixing stuff like EQs comps or whatever then add as you go. Can still use the built in insert send and returns for the other outboard stuff. While it does cater to 500 stuff it doesn't limit you too it. What you need is a modular aux unit and master buss unit, that can be linked together across channels and feed by any line level source. I would personally like to see it in 500 series chassis. 11 channels with 4 stereo auxs, xlr and elco I/O, linking buss outputs. Create standard 4 aux modules and one master. This would be a custom backplane, just using the form factor from API. 3x 11ch units would provide 32ch of aux inputs and a master aux output. Do the same for a pan/fader/master module. Aux would all be pre fader by default, but could have a jumper for connecting to the fader module if desired. With this you could use any type of input, mix and match 500 and rack formats. It would be more wiring... But who doesn't like wiring! Scalable and could be made to travel very well. You basically described the looptrotter console.. It has 4 auxs and 5 stereo busses. You buy it in 8ch buckets as you want at $4800 each. Plug and play expansion. It's really a nice console for the hybrid and flexible workflow. I'd recommend both of you just glance at the manual. It's small and lots of nice graphics to showcase workflows.
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Post by keymod on Jan 4, 2020 5:40:54 GMT -6
I’d go for a 1608 or The Box II Ever used the box 2? Seems like it could actually be pretty useful. If I were looking for a new console to integrate with everything else I already have, I would go with the Box2.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 6:20:50 GMT -6
I feel like the looptrotter boxes me into the 500 series too much. I've got bunch of 19" gear already and would end up with a half full console. I love the concept though. With the Box2, I could use channel strips and rack pres that I already have through the summing section. First 8 channels through the API preamps and 500 eq's. Then a mash up through the summing section. Well you don't have to use the 500 stuff. You can still send line level from your outboard mic pres to it. Then if you start to get into 500 gear for mixing stuff like EQs comps or whatever then add as you go. Can still use the built in insert send and returns for the other outboard stuff. While it does cater to 500 stuff it doesn't limit you too it. What you need is a modular aux unit and master buss unit, that can be linked together across channels and feed by any line level source. I would personally like to see it in 500 series chassis. 11 channels with 4 stereo auxs, xlr and elco I/O, linking buss outputs. Create standard 4 aux modules and one master. This would be a custom backplane, just using the form factor from API. 3x 11ch units would provide 32ch of aux inputs and a master aux output. Do the same for a pan/fader/master module. Aux would all be pre fader by default, but could have a jumper for connecting to the fader module if desired. With this you could use any type of input, mix and match 500 and rack formats. It would be more wiring... But who doesn't like wiring! Scalable and could be made to travel very well. You basically described the looptrotter console.. It has 4 auxs and 5 stereo busses. You buy it in 8ch buckets as you want at $4800 each. Plug and play expansion. It's really a nice console for the hybrid and flexible workflow. I'd recommend both of you just glance at the manual. It's small and lots of nice graphics to showcase workflows. It is a nice unit. I checked it out and chatted with the owner for a bit at AES last year. My issue is that I need 24 channels right off the bat, so the expansion doesn't really help me. And at 23k it's a lot more money that the Box2. The 8 channels of preamp and stereo compressor in the Box give me more added functionality than the 500 slots in the Looptrotter. If I was mixing through a console, I'd definitely be looking harder at the Looptrotter. Since I'm only taking though, the busses aren't really necessary for my workflow.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 6:45:36 GMT -6
What you need is a modular aux unit and master buss unit, that can be linked together across channels and feed by any line level source. I would personally like to see it in 500 series chassis. 11 channels with 4 stereo auxs, xlr and elco I/O, linking buss outputs. Create standard 4 aux modules and one master. This would be a custom backplane, just using the form factor from API. 3x 11ch units would provide 32ch of aux inputs and a master aux output. Do the same for a pan/fader/master module. Aux would all be pre fader by default, but could have a jumper for connecting to the fader module if desired. With this you could use any type of input, mix and match 500 and rack formats. It would be more wiring... But who doesn't like wiring! Scalable and could be made to travel very well. This is what I'm thinking too, but I was thinking 19". Maybe a 3 space unit, 8 channels wide with 4 auxes per channel. You would need an additional input to scale between units. Then you could have a matching fader bank summing module. 8 faders with pan, mute, and solo buttons. Same situation with the added scaling inputs. Use DB25's for the main connections and xlr for the input scaling. Basically you could build your own 8 channel modular mixer per rack. It feels like this could be pretty inexpensive to build. If they could sell for $500 for 8 channels of aux and $1000 for fader modules, I imagine these would fly off the shelves. People would be Lego blocking 500 series consoles left and right. matt@IAA?
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 4, 2020 10:37:13 GMT -6
Im not sure I quite understand. Aux and bus seem to me to be the same, when you pull them out of the context of a console...A sum that feeds a line level output. So you’re describing an 8 into 4 mixer. I think.
If you add one ADDA round trip to what you described, after the aux but before the fader, you could seamlessly use the gear from the DAW side.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 11:18:50 GMT -6
Im not sure I quite understand. Aux and bus seem to me to be the same, when you pull them out of the context of a console...A sum that feeds a line level output. So you’re describing an 8 into 4 mixer. I think. If you add one ADDA round trip to what you described, after the aux but before the fader, you could seamlessly use the gear from the DAW side. Sure, that's basically what I'm describing. Really, a 9 into 4 mono mixer. 8 channels with level control and 1 channel at unity to cascade from the previous unit. There would also need to be direct outs on each channel to cascade down into the fader summing modules. Like this as 19"... Then a 10 into 2 stereo mixer with mutes, solo, pan, and faders on 8 channels. Like this in 19" rack format.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2020 11:37:39 GMT -6
The aux problem I brick wall against with most consoles is stereo. Yeah, I'd want at least 4 stereo auxes.
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 4, 2020 11:40:51 GMT -6
Do you really want to use faders vertically mounted in a 19” rack?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 11:56:51 GMT -6
Do you really want to use faders vertically mounted in a 19” rack? I would build a horizontal rack for the fader banks to line up with slant racks, similar to a console layout.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 12:47:37 GMT -6
The aux problem I brick wall against with most consoles is stereo. Yeah, I'd want at least 3 stereo auxes. That could work too. 10 into 6 stereo aux mixer, same as above. Maybe this is actually technically challenging, but it seems like it would be a super easy build. Not looking for a sound with transformers or anything. Just some smt stuff on a pcb in a decent looking rack case. I don't know enough about circuits to really know.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 12:48:54 GMT -6
svart, you get what I'm talking about here?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 4, 2020 13:01:48 GMT -6
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 4, 2020 13:30:55 GMT -6
It’s not complex. Using something like THAT1246 and 1646 I/O and 5532s for the audio you could do this inexpensively with no sonic compromise. I just don’t understand the advantage of the analog domain vs a zero latency digital mixer like in a MOTU 16A or whatever.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 4, 2020 14:11:53 GMT -6
It’s not complex. Using something like THAT1246 and 1646 I/O and 5532s for the audio you could do this inexpensively with no sonic compromise. I just don’t understand the advantage of the analog domain vs a zero latency digital mixer like in a MOTU 16A or whatever. The ability in the heat of a session to grab a physical set of faders versus dicking with a mouse, one fader at a time.
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Post by mulmany on Jan 4, 2020 14:49:05 GMT -6
What you need is a modular aux unit and master buss unit, that can be linked together across channels and feed by any line level source. I would personally like to see it in 500 series chassis. 11 channels with 4 stereo auxs, xlr and elco I/O, linking buss outputs. Create standard 4 aux modules and one master. This would be a custom backplane, just using the form factor from API. 3x 11ch units would provide 32ch of aux inputs and a master aux output. Do the same for a pan/fader/master module. Aux would all be pre fader by default, but could have a jumper for connecting to the fader module if desired. With this you could use any type of input, mix and match 500 and rack formats. It would be more wiring... But who doesn't like wiring! Scalable and could be made to travel very well. This is what I'm thinking too, but I was thinking 19". Maybe a 3 space unit, 8 channels wide with 4 auxes per channel. You would need an additional input to scale between units. Then you could have a matching fader bank summing module. 8 faders with pan, mute, and solo buttons. Same situation with the added scaling inputs. Use DB25's for the main connections and xlr for the input scaling. Basically you could build your own 8 channel modular mixer per rack. It feels like this could be pretty inexpensive to build. If they could sell for $500 for 8 channels of aux and $1000 for fader modules, I imagine these would fly off the shelves. People would be Lego blocking 500 series consoles left and right. matt@IAA? I like keeping with the 500 series layout,cause you could stack an 11 space rack above the aux/buss unit and it would all line up. It would also allow you to scale the system better in a conventional 19" 3u chassis. So, 11in x 8out, 4 stereo sends, mono/st assignment. 8 channels in a 19" rack leaves a lot of wasted space. I was envisioning the master buss being incorporated into the fader package. That way you could really scale the system to your needs, 11 faders at a time. The 22ch combo would be a little odd, but the 33ch option would be perfect in 3 rack widths. My thoughts anyway.
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