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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 28, 2020 22:14:08 GMT -6
That's a pretty thing there rowmat!
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Post by Ward on Sept 29, 2020 5:19:17 GMT -6
This is still my favorite LDC mic even after acquiring a Flea 47, Bock 251 and a custom build C12 style mic with a Tim Campbell capsule and NOS Milspec GE6072 tube. Unbeknown to most is the U87 was not Neumann's only replacement for the U67 in terms of their production timeline.
The U77 was also released in 1967 but was relatively short lived (1967 - 1971) as it used the older 12v 'T' Power standard and as 48v phantom power was officially standardized Neumann also released the U87 which ran concurrently with the U77 until Neumann ceased production of the U77 in 1971. Some say it is a cross between a U67 and U87.
I can't confirm that not having a U67 to compare it with but it remains my desert island LDC inspite of having no tubes and no transformers. Want it to sound more 'tube' like? Then use an 'old school' tube pre. For incredible detail and 3D'ness' then something like a Twin Servo etc. Has the cleanest sibilance of any LDC I've heard.
From my cold dead hands...
Oh, 'we' know about it . . . 'we' are looking, have been looking for one (at a reasonable price) for many years |
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Post by rowmat on Sept 29, 2020 11:04:12 GMT -6
This is still my favorite LDC mic even after acquiring a Flea 47, Bock 251 and a custom build C12 style mic with a Tim Campbell capsule and NOS Milspec GE6072 tube. Unbeknown to most is the U87 was not Neumann's only replacement for the U67 in terms of their production timeline.
The U77 was also released in 1967 but was relatively short lived (1967 - 1971) as it used the older 12v 'T' Power standard and as 48v phantom power was officially standardized Neumann also released the U87 which ran concurrently with the U77 until Neumann ceased production of the U77 in 1971. Some say it is a cross between a U67 and U87.
I can't confirm that not having a U67 to compare it with but it remains my desert island LDC inspite of having no tubes and no transformers. Want it to sound more 'tube' like? Then use an 'old school' tube pre. For incredible detail and 3D'ness' then something like a Twin Servo etc. Has the cleanest sibilance of any LDC I've heard.
From my cold dead hands...
Oh, 'we' know about it . . . 'we' are looking, have been looking for one (at a reasonable price) for many years I had seen the odd U77 appear maybe two or three times a year on eBay or reverb for $2 - $3K several years ago but the last few were getting up into the $4 - $5k range.
Those who are unfamiliar with the U77 often write them off simply because they are a FET transformerless mic and assume they are going to be similar to the modern Sennheiser built cheaper Neumann TLM series.
Excerpt from a Neumann forum post by the late Oliver Archut.
Author: Posted by Oliver
Date: 08/02/2001
"...The U77 was introduced around the same time than the U87 but for wire feed. Same capsule but the electronic is a bit different. The U77 was mainly made for the German Broadcast Network and is for my taste the perfect transistor mic, even with the odd supply way. It gives you a better transient response than the 87 and has for my ears a nicer low end. With a mic pre like the V376 (476 or 676) this mic really shines, because those preamps were made for this type of mic series like KM73/74, KM76 and of course the U77..."
I bought my U77 over 30 years ago from the same guy who found me the KMS84i for $30 in the second hand store. He used to work as a tape op for the Australian Broadcasting Commission.
He was also selling a bunch of gear he had acquired over the years after he decided not to pursue building a home studio and rather started a home building and renovation business.
Along with the U77 I also bought a Neve 3115 module and a pile of other gear from him.
The stuff I didn't want I sold which ended up funding the stuff I kept.
When I first saw it the U77's main body was painted with Kermit green gloss paint and the mic was dead as a dodo. He said he'd had someone else look at it and they claimed it was kaput and too expensive to repair. On that basis he said I could have it for $300 AUD at my risk.
I figured it was worth a shot and managed to get hold of a schematic. In the end I had a eureka moment when what I thought was a hair on the mic's main circuit board was actually a broken winding wire on the DC-DC convertor transformer.
After re-soldering the wire which was quite tricky as it was very short and fragile and required extending I fitted the 9VDC battery and the mic burst into life.
About five years ago I had the original K67 capsule reskinned and a little over two years ago Gunter Wagner gave it a total going over and it has never sounded better.
It is also an exceptionally quiet mic and when gained up is like a sonic microscope with its ability to pull in the most subtle detail.
All up it owes me around $1500 AUD ($1100 US) with the refurbs.
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Post by Ward on Sept 30, 2020 5:37:38 GMT -6
TOP POSTER ALERT! Thanks for an extremely informative reply. And if you see a U77 for $1100=1500 and don't need it, please be a sport and pass along the tip! Oh, 'we' know about it . . . 'we' are looking, have been looking for one (at a reasonable price) for many years I had seen the odd U77 appear maybe two or three times a year on eBay or reverb for $2 - $3K several years ago but the last few were getting up into the $4 - $5k range. Those who are unfamiliar with the U77 often write them off simply because they are a FET transformerless mic and assume they are going to be similar to the modern Sennheiser built cheaper Neumann TLM series. Excerpt from a Neumann forum post by the late Oliver Archut. Author: Posted by Oliver
Date: 08/02/2001
"...The U77 was introduced around the same time than the U87 but for wire feed. Same capsule but the electronic is a bit different. The U77 was mainly made for the German Broadcast Network and is for my taste the perfect transistor mic, even with the odd supply way. It gives you a better transient response than the 87 and has for my ears a nicer low end. With a mic pre like the V376 (476 or 676) this mic really shines, because those preamps were made for this type of mic series like KM73/74, KM76 and of course the U77..."
I bought my U77 over 30 years ago from the same guy who found me the KMS84i for $30 in the second hand store. He used to work as a tape op for the Australian Broadcasting Commission. He was also selling a bunch of gear he had acquired over the years after he decided not to pursue building a home studio and rather started a home building and renovation business. Along with the U77 I also bought a Neve 3115 module and a pile of other gear from him.
The stuff I didn't want I sold which ended up funding the stuff I kept.
When I first saw it the U77's main body was painted with Kermit green gloss paint and the mic was dead as a dodo. He said he'd had someone else look at it and they claimed it was kaput and too expensive to repair. On that basis he said I could have it for $300 AUD at my risk. I figured it was worth a shot and managed to get hold of a schematic. In the end I had a eureka moment when what I thought was a hair on the mic's main circuit board was actually a broken winding wire on the DC-DC convertor transformer. After re-soldering the wire which was quite tricky as it was very short and fragile and required extending I fitted the 9VDC battery and the mic burst into life. About five years ago I had the original K67 capsule reskinned and a little over two years ago Gunter Wagner gave it a total going over and it has never sounded better. It is also an exceptionally quiet mic and when gained up is like a sonic microscope with its ability to pull in the most subtle detail.
All up it owes me around $1500 AUD ($1100 US) with the refurbs.
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Post by drbill on Sept 30, 2020 9:25:59 GMT -6
TOP POSTER ALERT! Thanks for an extremely informative reply. And if you see a U77 for $1100=1500 and don't need it, please be a sport and pass along the tip! I wouldn't be holding your breath for TOO long Ward. I've NEVER seen a U77. Either for sale or in a studio. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Sept 30, 2020 10:11:51 GMT -6
Side note: I still miss Oliver.  |
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Post by rowmat on Sept 30, 2020 11:23:07 GMT -6
If I really had to try and describe the sound of a U77 based upon the characteristics of two mics I am familiar with but do not own I would put it this way.
If a Microtech Gefell UMT70S and a Neumann U67 had a child it would likely be a U77.
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Post by rowmat on Sept 30, 2020 11:26:50 GMT -6
TOP POSTER ALERT! Thanks for an extremely informative reply. And if you see a U77 for $1100=1500 and don't need it, please be a sport and pass along the tip! I wouldn't be holding your breath for TOO long Ward. I've NEVER seen a U77. Either for sale or in a studio |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 30, 2020 12:07:48 GMT -6
Sexy.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 22, 2020 13:15:16 GMT -6
A funny thing happened on the way to this thread... A while back, I recorded a minute of a new song I’m trying to write. I set up a simple beat from Superior Drummer through my speakers while playing acoustic guitar and singing directly into my iPhone voice memo app. Weeks later I was listening, and had forgotten I’d used the iPhone. I was thinking, oh, the Stam sounds a little dark and didn’t care for a few other picky things like perhaps too much emphasis on the early transients. Only then did I realize it wasn’t recorded with the Stam, it was done on my iPhone!
So, a lot of what I may not like about any mic might actually be what I don’t like about my own voice, aarrgghh!
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Post by Ward on Oct 22, 2020 14:25:47 GMT -6
You and the rest of us, Martin John Butler. The only people truly in love with their own voices are narcissistic or deaf. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 22, 2020 17:14:52 GMT -6
A funny thing happened on the way to this thread... A while back, I recorded a minute of a new song I’m trying to write. I set up a simple beat from Superior Drummer through my speakers while playing acoustic guitar and singing directly into my iPhone voice memo app. Weeks later I was listening, and had forgotten I’d used the iPhone. I was thinking, oh, the Stam sounds a little dark and didn’t care for a few other picky things like perhaps too much emphasis on the early transients. Only then did I realize it wasn’t recorded with the Stam, it was done on my iPhone! So, a lot of what I may not like about any mic might actually be what I don’t like about my own voice, aarrgghh! This is one of the reasons why a console was such a must, it was so easy to split and then modify a signal differently for cans and tape while riding the same fader. Sure you can do it ITB, but not as quick. |
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Post by rowmat on Nov 21, 2020 20:04:07 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on May 7, 2021 8:13:18 GMT -6
Still loving my modded MK U67. I've actually been really torn between it and my FleA 49 of late. It's more an aesthetic choice than one being better than the other. My orchestrator/mix engineer for the Christmas Album flat out prefers Emily on the U67. I was a little torn at first, but reminded myself that Natalie Cole among other modern female crooners with strong voices often used U67s for their albums. I believe Linda Ronstadt used either a U67 of M269 for her Nelson Riddle Songbook albums and they are fantastic.
For me the choice becomes sounding a bit like a crooner or leaning more toward the classical/crossover sound of the Sergio Franchi or old school Broadway albums I love so much. He he. I have found the U67 much better on my voice while doing pop or rock styled pieces. It's not as thick, but still warm. I've done a few session vocals with it over the last year and recorded a few people through it of varying styles before the pandemic hit; female pop/rock, male rock/R&B, etc. It always works. I want another one....
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Post by chessparov on May 7, 2021 8:43:29 GMT -6
Linda used the Stephen Paul modded 67 on the "What's New" album/all Riddle material. Was her favorite studio microphone.
Chris
P.S. The Elton and Justin Hayward 67's were
incredible too...
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Post by Vincent R. on May 7, 2021 10:27:53 GMT -6
Linda used the Stephen Paul modded 67 on the "What's New" album/all Riddle material. Was her favorite studio microphone. Chris P.S. The Elton and Justin Hayward 67's were incredible too... Stephen Paul's mod opens the top end up a bit, right? Pretty sure Natalie Cole used one of his U67s too. |
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Post by chessparov on May 7, 2021 12:38:19 GMT -6
IIRC Stephen said his 67 mod made it more transparent, so that makes sense.
FWIW when Elliot Scheiner worked with Natalie, it was a Tele 251 or U67. Not sure if any of her 67's were Stephen Paul modded. Allan Hyatt and Harvey Gerst were good friends of Stephen's and might know.
Chris
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 7, 2021 15:20:17 GMT -6
IIRC Stephen said his 67 mod made it more transparent, so that makes sense. FWIW when Elliot Scheiner worked with Natalie, it was a Tele 251 or U67. Not sure if any of her 67's were Stephen Paul modded. Allan Hyatt and Harvey Gerst were good friends of Stephen's and might know. Chris From what I remember of the SP mod, reskinning the diaphragm with a thinner film was a big part of it. |
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Post by rob61 on May 7, 2021 15:52:34 GMT -6
Yes, I had Stephen Paul mod my U87 back in the 1990's. He offered 6 micron, 3 micron, or 1 micron. He said a 1 micron was what Amy Grant was using at the time for her pop crossover stuff. It was very bright, open, and transparent. You could hear the beads of sweat forming on a singer's brow. It wasn't working for me with the rockers too well back then. I still have the capsule somewhere in a drawer. Maybe I should try mounting it in my MK U-67 now. That would be interesting.
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Post by rowmat on May 7, 2021 15:57:25 GMT -6
Yes, I had Stephen Paul mod my U87 back in the 1990's. He offered 6 micron, 3 micron, or 1 micron. He said a 1 micron was what Amy Grant was using at the time for her pop crossover stuff. It was very bright, open, and transparent. You could hear the beads of sweat forming on a singer's brow. It wasn't working for me with the rockers too well back then. I still have the capsule somewhere in a drawer. Maybe I should try mounting it in my MK U-67 now. That would be interesting. Just don’t sneeze on that 1 micron diaphragm. It might evaporate along with your sneeze! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 7, 2021 15:58:58 GMT -6
Yes, I had Stephen Paul mod my U87 back in the 1990's. He offered 6 micron, 3 micron, or 1 micron. He said a 1 micron was what Amy Grant was using at the time for her pop crossover stuff. It was very bright, open, and transparent. You could hear the beads of sweat forming on a singer's brow. It wasn't working for me with the rockers too well back then. I still have the capsule somewhere in a drawer. Maybe I should try mounting it in my MK U-67 now. That would be interesting. Just don’t sneeze on that 1 micron diaphragm. It might evaporate along with your sneeze! Yeah my mike is allergic to my allergies 😁 |
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Post by recordingengineer on May 10, 2021 17:51:43 GMT -6
Just don’t sneeze on that 1 micron diaphragm. It might evaporate along with your sneeze! I don’t know... My Luke Audio capsules seem to do alright there.  I’m looking forward comparing my Stephen Paul mod inspired M269, U67, and upcoming U87 Barbaric mics; all with Luke Audio capsules. |
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Post by chessparov on May 10, 2021 18:31:43 GMT -6
It'd be cool if one of the living Mic Mavens... Reverse engineered that 1 Micron capsule, partly out of respect for Stephen.  Chris |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 10, 2021 19:25:04 GMT -6
It'd be cool if one of the living Mic Mavens... Reverse engineered that 1 Micron capsule, partly out of respect for Stephen. Chris I don’t think there was that much to understand, it was a stock K67/87 re-skinned with thinner film. I believe both Tracey Korby and Shannon were trained by SP and offered it as an option. Many don’t see the thinner film as an advantage others seam to love it. |
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Post by recordingengineer on May 10, 2021 19:31:34 GMT -6
I agree, but I’d wait until Tony Merrill passes or is officially no longer doing SPA work.
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