|
|
Post by drbill on Dec 28, 2019 14:48:31 GMT -6
re: the darkness....
It's been said so many times, but a STOCK U67 needs EQ to speak in any sort of modern way. It just does. That's why such a great percentage of them have been modded - or maybe a better term is "tweaked". Trying to get the mic to speak in a modern way without EQ is going to swing it away from where it was designed to be - which is OK if that's what you want. I almost think of them sonically as ribbons, with the clarity of a LDC, and a bit more open-ness than a ribbon. If it's dark and it has some clarity and a bit of open-ness up top, it's in the zone. May not be where you want it, but that's what EQ is for IMO. I don't ever think there was this penchant for making mics perfect for a single voice back in the day. Engineers just grabbed EQ and moved on. That darkness is the reason most folks have tweaked and modded their original 67's., and why there are so few that are really bone stock - even though many believe their modded 67 is stock.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Dec 28, 2019 15:38:25 GMT -6
Great posts. Will listen Vincent to the latest clips soon. I'm "bright enough" (well my voice sure is!  )...To where "ribbon-ish" LDC's, are generally (a few "neutrals" are too) my favorite LDC's. Chris |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Dec 28, 2019 16:53:31 GMT -6
Within the Tube Depot shootout, on the U67 RI. Preferred the original vintage German tube. In your latest 67 style comparison Vincent, the Neumann transformer made it smoother. Not sure "which tube" on the MK67, as it sounds slighty different (of course!) than the Reissue. I'm confident the Valvo is a great tube for it, nonetheless. As always, superb singing Maestro!  Chris P.S. Once more the TLM 67 is a nice/slighty more affordable sonic "gateway", for a potential MK67 upgrade. |
|
|
|
Post by mike on Dec 28, 2019 17:34:08 GMT -6
<abbr data-timestamp="1577563082000" title="Dec 28, 2019 13:58:02 GMT -6" class="o-timestamp time">Dec 28, 2019 13:58:02 GMT -6</abbr> Vincent R. said: brenta said a lot of what I think. I described it to indiehouse and mike as if a veil had been removed. I do have some issues with it, but it's the same issues a bunch of us have discussed about the reissue itself, which is what I think this sounds like. I think it could have a little more bottom end. I'm going to try a tube swap and see if that helps. I could also reach out to Klaus for a capsule tweak, but I'm not ready for that yet. I also think man, if my capsule is on the bright side how dark would the MK67 be with a darker capsule... I did like the reissue, but man the mic like this really sits in a mix well.
Brenta I really like the BLUE. It's a little thicker sounding than the MK U67. I've even debated getting a second one, but I may have to try the big bottle before doing that and see if its worth upgrading first. lol.
First, thanks very much for posting and sharing these Vinnie, much appreciated. I hear the same, while I liked the reissue mode initially, I like the Neumann transformer better with it being a little more open and comparatively like you said as if a veil had been removed. The other thing I noticed on the Neumann transformer take is even though you sang from the same distance, it was to me a little more forward sounding or had a little closer proximity than the other 67 takes which I preferred. While I think it sounds good, would take EQ and sit in a mix well already, I'll bet from this point if you still decide to tweak it further, your tube choice can take you to where ever you want in the end.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 2, 2020 10:37:02 GMT -6
Well I guess I should finally chime in on my thoughts of the MK67 kit with the BV12 installed. I've had it back for about a week and have had a chance to play around with it, find it's sweet spot and try it in a few contexts, at least on my voice. Frankly, I probably should have reached out to indiehouse and negotiated a selling fee percentage first. lol. Frankly, I find the microphone to be really smooth, it has great presence without being sibilant, and is entirely lacking of the muddy quality some of us complained about with the MK67. The top end is very similar to the MK67 in reissue mode, but the whole sound is cleaner. It has a great natural compression too.
Any of you who have used a U67 and an M49 will know this, but its worth mentioning the sweet spot is different for the MK U67 than for my FleA 49. In order to compare them I've been doing separate takes with the same signal chain. The FleA 49 likes to be 12-18" away from me. 24" if I'm singing straight opera. It also likes to be slightly above my mouth and angled down toward it. The MK U67 likes me to be 8-12" away, 18" for straight opera. It also likes me to be singing straight into the microphone which should be in line directly with my mouth. When compared they are very different animals. The FleA 49 beefs everything up in the mids, making the whole sound more colored and a bit more larger than life. The MK U67 seems to sit in the mix easier and without enhancing things too much. I've really been enjoying it on pop vocals. I was messing around with an old Michael Bolton song. I did these takes one after the other through my Dan Alexander. There is some compression and verb, but no EQ. You can hear the MK U67 compared to my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with the B6 Capsule, as well as my second FleA 49 which is the more open of my two.
I'm looking forward to hearing my wife on this too. I have a feeling her recording of "Merry Christmas Darling" for our Christmas album will be better with the U67. My brother is an R&B singer in the vein of Sam Smith and I really want to hear his voice on this. Mostly we've used my U87ai when he records here. We had some luck with the CM67SE when I had it, but it was lacking some low end. I was going to try him on my BLUE Bottle Rocket Stage II with the B6 capsule the next time he came, but I honestly think the U67 is going to do the trick. I'll add a little air and tame some of the mids with EQ, but I really think this is going to sound great on his voice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 5, 2020 17:36:35 GMT -6
Hey Martin John Butler , you still have one of the Stam SA67s at your place. He just posted about the next batch starting to ship in Feb. I’m curious which one you still have and if you’ve heard the newest TC version or just that earlier one you had. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 5, 2020 22:21:23 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, Happy New Year! I don't have the newest TC capsule version yet. Joshua plans to see that I get the newest version before I do a proper shootout. He's settled on the final version now, so it shouldn't be too long.
|
|
|
|
Post by rob61 on Jan 22, 2020 15:36:09 GMT -6
I just tried out my Max U67 with the Neumann transformer and its definately worth the upgrade. I decided to let indiehouse do the work, as he's done a few now and knows what's required. He did a top notch job and turned it around quickly. I also had the NOS output capacitor installed along with it. This mic now sings! If anyone is considering upgrading their Max U-67 mic with a Neumann transformer, I'd highly recommend it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Jan 22, 2020 18:46:36 GMT -6
I just tried out my Max U67 with the Neumann transformer and its definately worth the upgrade. I decided to let indiehouse do the work, as he's done a few now and knows what's required. He did a top notch job and turned in around quickly. I also had the NOS output transformer installed along with it. This mic now sings! If anyone is considering upgrading their Max U-67 mic with a Neumann transformer, I'd highly recommend it. I've been think of trying this. I recently started using a Gotham GAC-7 cable instead of the stock cable, feel silly it took me so long to make the change as it helps it out in the detail dept. |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 22, 2020 18:55:44 GMT -6
I just tried out my Max U67 with the Neumann transformer and its definately worth the upgrade. I decided to let indiehouse do the work, as he's done a few now and knows what's required. He did a top notch job and turned in around quickly. I also had the NOS output transformer installed along with it. This mic now sings! If anyone is considering upgrading their Max U-67 mic with a Neumann transformer, I'd highly recommend it. I've been think of trying this. I recently started using a Gotham GAC-7 cable instead of the stock cable, feel silly it took me so long to make the change as it helps it out in the detail dept. Got any comparison clips between stock/Gotham cables? Not trying to pick a cable fight and won't try to convince you of anything I'm just genuinely curious to hear what you're hearing. I'd love for it to be true as that's an easy swap to make. |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 22, 2020 19:24:39 GMT -6
I just tried out my Max U67 with the Neumann transformer and its definately worth the upgrade. I decided to let indiehouse do the work, as he's done a few now and knows what's required. He did a top notch job and turned in around quickly. I also had the NOS output transformer installed along with it. This mic now sings! If anyone is considering upgrading their Max U-67 mic with a Neumann transformer, I'd highly recommend it. I've been think of trying this. I recently started using a Gotham GAC-7 cable instead of the stock cable, feel silly it took me so long to make the change as it helps it out in the detail dept. I’ve been debating swapping the cable myself. |
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Jan 22, 2020 20:01:35 GMT -6
Got any comparison clips between stock/Gotham cables? Not trying to pick a cable fight and won't try to convince you of anything I'm just genuinely curious to hear what you're hearing. I'd love for it to be true as that's an easy swap to make. I'll see if I can make some in an unbiased/scientific-ish way, wouldn't be the most accurate comparison unless I played something off a speaker as I'd have to turn the mic off, swap, power back up etc. I could also be less scientific with all the caveats that come with different takes, be interesting for myself as well. I had the cable already from another mic and in addition to hearing more detail (or so I imagine) I like how the Neutrik connector is a better fit than whatever off brand connector is on the stock cable, I'll probably build one for this mic on that basis alone to avoid any bad connections. I've been playing the cable game a bit lately as mentioned in the new gear thread, it's interesting to hear the subtle differences. Nothing that's going to make or break a song but fun to nerd out on. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Jan 22, 2020 20:58:44 GMT -6
At first I didn't hear much cable difference, but Gotham over time has proven to be like wiping the window clean; I didn't know it had a film at a glance.
|
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Jan 23, 2020 4:58:42 GMT -6
Klaus in his assessment of the re-issue , compared cables and noted they made a discernable difference.
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 23, 2020 5:18:01 GMT -6
@ nudwig
Or just make a high sample rate recording using a different mike and just play that back twice with everything else identical/measured positions only switching cable?
|
|
|
|
Post by Darren Boling on Jan 23, 2020 12:41:20 GMT -6
@ nudwig Or just make a high sample rate recording using a different mike and just play that back twice with everything else identical/measured positions only switching cable? That's what I was thinking when I mentioned playing it off a speaker. Then I remembered a nice acapella on an album that everyone can look up that'll give a look into the entire chain's effect for some seriously good nerding out. Throw in some additional tests of Vovox/Grimm TPR/Mogami between power supply preamp and we should have us a good ol time. With luck I can pull it off in a way that'll display the differences in an informative way. Schedule permitting I'll get to it this weekend. |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Jan 23, 2020 13:48:39 GMT -6
I just finished trying out a couple of tubes now that I've installed the Neumann BV12. Firstly, I actually really like the Valvo PF86 it came with. It's a little beefier than the EF86s I've tried. I was able to track down an Telefunken Silver EF86 from Bowie. It was a much tighter sound, but also a bit more open. Frankly, I preferred the Valvo PF86 over it. Luckily, Bowie is a cool guy and after going back and forth about what I was looking for he offered me a rare 1958 Amperex which seemed to sit somewhere between the stock PF86 and the Telefunken EF86, providing a bit more mid range and softer highs. I'm very happy with it. Admittedly, I've got my kit in a U87ai, and there is a possibility that the K67 in it is on the brighter side, which may be why I preferred the richer tube.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 23, 2020 14:02:51 GMT -6
Rolling quality tubes is a great way to finesse a quality mike’s sound!
And talking to bowie is just great anytime !
|
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Jan 23, 2020 16:45:32 GMT -6
I recently got a Telefunken EF86 from Bowie for my MK67. It was a definite improvement. A more pleasant color and frequency response. It still seems a little muddy for what I would expect from a 67 and missing some intangible magic. I’m going to have the transformer swapped for a Neumann, and eventually get a higher quality cable as well. I’m not sure if it will ever have the magic of the vintage 67s I have used but I’m hoping to get as close as possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 4, 2020 9:54:27 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, Happy New Year! I don't have the newest TC capsule version yet. Joshua plans to see that I get the newest version before I do a proper shootout. He's settled on the final version now, so it shouldn't be too long. I'm looking forward to your shootout Martin and also getting mine soon now that we are in February. I saw that Josh had posted a pic of what looked like 67 builds on his FB page about a week ago, so fingers crossed that shipping is still on schedule for this month. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 4, 2020 10:20:35 GMT -6
Shouldn't be long now Mike :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 4, 2020 11:28:00 GMT -6
Funny, I keep putting up the 67 with a mix of other condensers and ribbons for female lead vocal shootouts, and not once have they ever picked the 67. FWIW.
|
|
|
|
Post by jamiesego on Feb 4, 2020 12:21:05 GMT -6
Funny, I keep putting up the 67 with a mix of other condensers and ribbons for female lead vocal shootouts, and not once have they ever picked the 67. FWIW. Care to share the winners? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Feb 4, 2020 13:13:47 GMT -6
Funny, I keep putting up the 67 with a mix of other condensers and ribbons for female lead vocal shootouts, and not once have they ever picked the 67. FWIW. Care to share the winners? 414-BULS, UMT70S, Samar MF-65, Samar/Omni TF08, RCA BK-11A |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Feb 4, 2020 14:41:25 GMT -6
Funny, I keep putting up the 67 with a mix of other condensers and ribbons for female lead vocal shootouts, and not once have they ever picked the 67. FWIW. It doesn't generally win over my FleA 49 over here either. When I pick the U67 its more a stylistic choice than necessarily the best for a specific voice. I like Broadway style pieces with the U67s. It may simply be because many of my favorite Broadway recordings have "that sound." Still, that's when I usually choose it. I'll also choose it for my voice when doing a pop song. It's a little less beefy than the 49. |
|
)...To where "ribbon-ish" LDC's, are generally (a few "neutrals" are too) my favorite LDC's. 
