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Post by mrholmes on Dec 4, 2016 12:09:59 GMT -6
I think with all the endless discussions we forget that the most important factor is to concentrate on the music...
If people like the song and they listen to it every day for weeks - you nailed it.
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Post by jjinvegas on Dec 4, 2016 12:21:32 GMT -6
I really think there is a hierarchy, and it is pretty consistent. Song/Performing Talent/Production Talent/Equipment. Sometimes one or the other might jump ahead in line, but rarely if ever is it equipment. Would the first Velvet Underground record be more influential if it was a "better" recording? For lots of people, the DAW has leveled the playing field so that working in one of the recording meccas is no longer a requirement to have access to tools that used to be out of reach. There is more than just oxide to consider, I bet I wasted at least a couple of months of my life waiting for locators to park. Hundreds of rolls of two inch tape, the expense of which came right off my bottom line. And really, I hear no significant difference in the work I do now, I still have the same ears for good or ill. Well, almost the same, NS-10s still give me an adverse reaction. Shameless plug time, I have been doing some preliminary sequencing of my first LP, only thirty five years in the making. Please rake it over the coals, I only wrote all the material to learn how to use recording software after a long hiatus due to format war fatigue and disgust with the industry in general. And just like a person on trial who chooses to represent himself in court, anybody who self-produces their output also has a fool for a client. And in my case the dang fool was broke to boot....smile...IGNORE THE GOOGLE LINK< this one works, however......https://www.reverbnation.com/jjjohnson8 https://plus.google.com/108160675808711007132/posts/Vb9WxxGAZBZ |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 12:40:31 GMT -6
"Daily limit for unauthenticated use exceeded" ??
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 4, 2016 12:48:44 GMT -6
If Softube offered trials of the Console 1 through trusted retailers, they would be selling a ton!
I'm an absolute convert, to the point where I don't event want to use any other plugins, at all. Just listen, decide, act. I never want to touch the mouse ever again when mixing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 4, 2016 13:03:50 GMT -6
"Daily limit for unauthenticated use exceeded" ?? Where you seeing that? |
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Post by jjinvegas on Dec 4, 2016 13:20:18 GMT -6
Well, I guess Google player is out, I had no idea you had to download the player, and so I made some mp3s and stuck them on Reverbnation. Maybe someone has a good idea for distribution songs without too much piracy or bot responses trying to get you to buy or join something, that is streaming only..... www.reverbnation.com/jjjohnson8 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 13:41:51 GMT -6
"Daily limit for unauthenticated use exceeded" ?? Where you seeing that? Logged in to google account, that comes up on the player - never seen the player before so not sure why? |
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Post by jjinvegas on Dec 4, 2016 14:19:33 GMT -6
Logged in to google account, that comes up on the player - never seen the player before so not sure why? I have contacted the third party that provides the player to see if I can get this straightened out somehow. Because the player is the bomb from a fidelity standpoint, it plays WAV files direct from the source, no compression, and you can upload folders full of material and it posts the folder as one upload, plays the songs in order and and would be ideal for those of us who prefer services that aren't already hacked to death with bots and webpages dedicated to overcoming the "streaming only" restriction to give creators some kind of assurance. In the meantime I did post some of the LP on Reverbnation, with the dreaded mp3s.... www.reverbnation.com/jjjohnson8 |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 4, 2016 16:05:24 GMT -6
The factor I think has changed the most is the lack of arrangers. People forget that both George Martin and Quincy Jones were experienced arrangers. My experience has been that the best were almost always brass players. They think in counterpoint and know how to count rests!
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Post by Guitar on Dec 4, 2016 17:14:47 GMT -6
The mythology about how things were done in the past is endless. My experience has been that it comes down to: 1. the sound of the musicians and their instruments being better back then, probably due to vast amounts of time spent on stage learning what audiences responded best to. 2. recording ensembles quickly 3. musicians placed as close together as possible with no headphones 4. more distant mikes in studios having flat, uncolored early reflections 5. way less use of signal processing such a eq. and compression. Most is actually compensating for steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 not being followed! This is one of the most concise and powerful posts I have seen in some time! I can use this as sort of a recording mantra, to try to be better more often. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 4, 2016 17:23:01 GMT -6
I'm the guy who has been asking "What the Hell Changed?"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 19:41:17 GMT -6
This, but I also think the guys who learn to get it done ITB enjoy a serious competitive advantage flipping between mix to mix to tracking or mastering over those having to leave a mix up on the board while a client approves. Is it all about competition? Of course not, BUT, it is absolutely a factor to those who want better and better jobs with better and better clientele. It really does depend what the end goal of your work is. Im curious where the concept of leaving "mixes up," on boards enters the conversation within a modern context. I'm not speaking for everyone,just myself here but, I print thru the consoles channels plus the board EQ and back while using hw inserts like analog comp, verb or Zulu etc. Then at mixdown, I just leave the faders at unity on the board and the DAW is the recall platform. Thats how I work. Ive seen tons of cats do it that way. Use the channels as a cooker for the DAW tracks then use the board as a summing mixer but with all the fun trimmings. If you use anything that dictates a real time mixdown (UAD, HW compressor on the 2 buss) then you don't enjoy any more speed at mixdown. For edits, its all in the computer for most everybody. In this scenario, I dont see the competive edge save for maybe the 4 minutes you dont have to spend during the render. Who can't recall a broomstick mix?  ? Thanks -L. Except that you add an additional stage of the console and you're not considering the hardware recall or that 4 minute print times do add up to a clients bottom line (especially in an era of convenience and album budget cuts). Of course you can reset a board and go that way but the expectation from most is that you click open and it opens the way it was last left. Not a compromised version of what it was before. My bus compressors and summing mixer are all completely stepped and to be honest the way I've had that stuff set up hasn't changed in a long time. Best of luck with Zulu, I'm looking forward to seeing it. It looks like a very great piece of kit! Can't wait to try it out |
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Post by illacov on Dec 4, 2016 22:38:10 GMT -6
Im curious where the concept of leaving "mixes up," on boards enters the conversation within a modern context. I'm not speaking for everyone,just myself here but, I print thru the consoles channels plus the board EQ and back while using hw inserts like analog comp, verb or Zulu etc. Then at mixdown, I just leave the faders at unity on the board and the DAW is the recall platform. Thats how I work. Ive seen tons of cats do it that way. Use the channels as a cooker for the DAW tracks then use the board as a summing mixer but with all the fun trimmings. If you use anything that dictates a real time mixdown (UAD, HW compressor on the 2 buss) then you don't enjoy any more speed at mixdown. For edits, its all in the computer for most everybody. In this scenario, I dont see the competive edge save for maybe the 4 minutes you dont have to spend during the render. Who can't recall a broomstick mix? ? Thanks -L. Except that you add an additional stage of the console and you're not considering the hardware recall or that 4 minute print times do add up to a clients bottom line (especially in an era of convenience and album budget cuts). Of course you can reset a board and go that way but the expectation from most is that you click open and it opens the way it was last left. Not a compromised version of what it was before. My bus compressors and summing mixer are all completely stepped and to be honest the way I've had that stuff set up hasn't changed in a long time. Best of luck with Zulu, I'm looking forward to seeing it. It looks like a very great piece of kit! Can't wait to try it out So by this same gesture owning a UAD based system or any hardware on the 2 buss would create the same scenario WITHOUT the console correct? And hold the phone. How much cheaper is it to reprint an entirely ITB recall for the client since you still have to make the adjustment/edit ITB or not? Thats not free-er-er LOL I do the majority of my studio work in record production, my job is to make my clients happy with the work I perform for them but its on me to choose the methods. Recalls are included in the budget. Since the recalls are included it frees up the constraint of choosing method over madness. I have my hands tied with using hardware on my 2 buss, so all my mixdowns are real time. Enjoy a coffee break  MMMM Coffee. Thanks -L. |
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Post by illacov on Dec 4, 2016 22:43:03 GMT -6
Jordan thanks for the kind words about Zulu! Its worth the print time Thanks -L. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 12:02:47 GMT -6
Except that you add an additional stage of the console and you're not considering the hardware recall or that 4 minute print times do add up to a clients bottom line (especially in an era of convenience and album budget cuts). Of course you can reset a board and go that way but the expectation from most is that you click open and it opens the way it was last left. Not a compromised version of what it was before. My bus compressors and summing mixer are all completely stepped and to be honest the way I've had that stuff set up hasn't changed in a long time. Best of luck with Zulu, I'm looking forward to seeing it. It looks like a very great piece of kit! Can't wait to try it out So by this same gesture owning a UAD based system or any hardware on the 2 buss would create the same scenario WITHOUT the console correct? And hold the phone. How much cheaper is it to reprint an entirely ITB recall for the client since you still have to make the adjustment/edit ITB or not? Thats not free-er-er LOL I do the majority of my studio work in record production, my job is to make my clients happy with the work I perform for them but its on me to choose the methods. Recalls are included in the budget. Since the recalls are included it frees up the constraint of choosing method over madness. I have my hands tied with using hardware on my 2 buss, so all my mixdowns are real time. Enjoy a coffee break MMMM Coffee. Thanks -L. I don't own a UAD system, if I did I probably would only use it with my analog rig. I sometimes choose to stay ITB if I know there will be lots of revisions, changes and tweaks. I include two recalls within every bands quote and it's rare that it's enough. I love having the analog rig and more often than not would rather work on that than just plugins but I have to be as efficient as possible and sometimes that just means staying itb. I also keep the Chemex on my rack and the kettle nearby. Coffee break gets done during the 2 minute export times and it's right on to the next one. It keeps my work from piling up uncontrollably. |
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Post by illacov on Dec 5, 2016 12:31:14 GMT -6
So by this same gesture owning a UAD based system or any hardware on the 2 buss would create the same scenario WITHOUT the console correct? And hold the phone. How much cheaper is it to reprint an entirely ITB recall for the client since you still have to make the adjustment/edit ITB or not? Thats not free-er-er LOL I do the majority of my studio work in record production, my job is to make my clients happy with the work I perform for them but its on me to choose the methods. Recalls are included in the budget. Since the recalls are included it frees up the constraint of choosing method over madness. I have my hands tied with using hardware on my 2 buss, so all my mixdowns are real time. Enjoy a coffee break MMMM Coffee. Thanks -L. I don't own a UAD system, if I did I probably would only use it with my analog rig. I sometimes choose to stay ITB if I know there will be lots of revisions, changes and tweaks. I include two recalls within every bands quote and it's rare that it's enough. I love having the analog rig and more often than not would rather work on that than just plugins but I have to be as efficient as possible and sometimes that just means staying itb. I also keep the Chemex on my rack and the kettle nearby. Coffee break gets done during the 2 minute export times and it's right on to the next one. It keeps my work from piling up uncontrollably. Dag 2 minutes? So you save 2m30s in my scenario? Thats alot of sips you could be enjoying. Heres a dead serious question. Pro Tools for the majority of it's existence was online bounce until maybe 2 years ago. You couldnt render offline in non realtime. This is the industry standard DAW (Dr. Evil Quote fingers). So when did it enter the equation for us engineering folk to all of a sudden feel the need to turn around recalls or revisions faster than what the music business accepts as standard? Multiple recalls add up for certain. But so does that final invoice. I have no idea who your clients are, but no matter who hires you, studio time is studio time. Regardless if its a desk youre recalling or a session. In scenarios like that its a billable hour and beyond. I don't sell minutes. Anything beyond emailing a file, billable hour. Regarding keeping clients because of your rates or costs, people stay with you or don't. You can be as affordable for them as you can, but they can still opt to leave for next go round. The only thing that ever remains is your work. Which is why I always say do it like its your last gig. Never compromise how you work just to please people. Accomodate but never buckle to pressure. Cuz in the end, whatever makes you stand out in a crowd is what makes you desirable. Thats what will last, the money can come and go, trust me it will. So will the clients, but your work is what you can always count on being the equalizer. Thats how Ive stayed alive is by going hard at it with blinders on. BTW, slightly overdriven mic preamp to the dbx on a drum buss is MONSTROUS, I feel like I just made a new piece of gear patching it this way LOL. Thanks -L. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 5, 2016 15:18:07 GMT -6
Mixing by committee has become SOP.
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Post by illacov on Dec 5, 2016 16:46:23 GMT -6
Mixing by committee has become SOP True. So you can either play by "those," rules or make your own and learn to starve like a man. Thanks -L. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 14, 2016 18:54:48 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer.
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Post by ragan on Dec 14, 2016 19:23:57 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. I'm sure you can please your clients, many engineers do. It'll just be a matter of whether you can please your ears. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 14, 2016 19:56:37 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. I'm sure you can please your clients, many engineers do. It'll just be a matter of whether you can please your ears. That's it exactly. We do this for ourselves as much or more than for any client. Otherwise why would any of us be looking at $5-15k microphones with envy. ONLY because we want that extra edge. Clients mostly can't tell the difference, and if they can, they aren't willing to PAY for that difference - so the reality is - we go the extra mile (hardware) for ourselves. |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 14, 2016 19:59:20 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. I guess everyone aggress a good mix is a good mix and we don't care about OTB vs. ITB. A few thoughts about the reason why we discuss this OTB / ITB topic to death - every year. I think we discuss it because our subconscious wants to justify something. We want to justify that we did the right decision, that all the expenses are well spend cash. We want to reassure that everything is alright with the gear. To me there is no doubt that we have great sounding plug ins today. The more I work with them the more I get the impression that the workflow plays a big role on the outcome of the mix. That is why I coded (and still do) many plug in "knobs" to the I pad as controller. My conclusion is different - it comes down to a workflow which helps to mix more intuitive ITB. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2016 21:28:17 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. I'm going to answer this as simply as possible and sum up the thread: This all depends on what you personally define as success and how you feel you need to get there. |
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Post by keymod on Dec 15, 2016 3:53:11 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. Jesse, You're so good with the hardware. Find a way to keep it going. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 15, 2016 7:41:10 GMT -6
So in summary, nobody has sold off their hardware and moved ITB. I'm screwed if I think that can work out. Bummer. Andrew scheps.... 😂 |
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MMMM Coffee. 
