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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 26, 2016 9:15:49 GMT -6
Tell me about your experience.
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Post by keymod on Nov 26, 2016 13:22:26 GMT -6
Oh,oh
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946 
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Post by ericn on Nov 26, 2016 13:36:44 GMT -6
I have tried it many times, I always miss grabbing a knob and faders, the simplicity of not thing about delay compensation, but that's me. I'm a console guy, I have always wanted ITB to work for me I just feel my work and I are better outside the box!
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 26, 2016 14:09:14 GMT -6
Tell me about your experience. I was hybrid and did try from time to time To go into ITB land. But every time I used the console and the hardware again it was like - ah OK - that's how a record sounds. Since I use Steven Slates everything bundle with VCC VBC VTM and VMR it takes me to 90% to the "sounds like a record" feeling. VMR is a great idea because it lets you mix faster, all the knobs are in one window. I wish they would do a remote console for VMR.  |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 26, 2016 20:07:32 GMT -6
Console guy - the past 10 years have been on a large format SSL.
Now, if the budget doesn't cut it (60% of the time), I'm mixing at home. 8 Channels of my Apollo 16 > D-Box > EQ > Comp > and a pair of vp-28's on the bus into a Lavry Blue. It took me over a year to be truly happy with one of my ITB/Hybrid mixes.
I will still pick working on the SSL any day of the week.
I feel like to actually be happy I'd want a Sigma hooked up, But I can't justify the price right now.
It would take me some serious work to actually mix ITB with no outboard whatsoever.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 26, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -6
I think mixing ITB needs plug ins which meet your sound estehtic, as well as a slight diffrent mindset. As long as you think that ITB does not cut it your are sabotaging yourself - a selffullfying prophecy. The Slate tools sounded that good to me that I told myself.... if you cant do it with this ones its you, and not the gear.
Yes it sucks using a mouse, and I always thougt that all the time mixing ITB.
If that comes up again in my mind I tell myself, that its true, it sucks but working on three compositions at diffrent days is pretty cool.
With the slate tools, it may needs here and there a workaround ... but its the first time that I have the feeling not beeing light years away from the hybrid setups sound.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 26, 2016 21:33:07 GMT -6
No doubt it's 90% mental on my part. I'm just used to a certain way of working, and im not a visual person. I feel that looking at a screen hinders my ability to hear and work proficiently and properly. When working on a console - it's hooked up to pt with timecode and I turn off the computer monitor and control everything from the console transport. It's like I'm mixing off tape - and I personally seem to get better results that way.
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Post by M57 on Nov 26, 2016 21:47:15 GMT -6
VMR is a great idea because it lets you mix faster, all the knobs are in one window. I wish they would do a remote console for VMR. It would be great, what would it look like? All the plugs have different sets of knobs that do different things and can be put in any order - including more than one of the same plug - not to mention that they may come out with more plugs. Softube's Console 1 would be the way to go if you're looking for a physical interface. |
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Post by drbill on Nov 26, 2016 21:49:16 GMT -6
I'm not going to get into any ITB/OTB pissing matches, and I'm not going to post up mixes - this will be my first and last post on this one. My personal $0.02. I've mixed every which way - 4000's, J's, API's Neves, Tridents - LFAC's that cost half a million +, smaller consoles, dirty consoles, clean transparent consoles, Tape, Dig tape, ITB, OTB, Hybrid - you name it. I love plugins, I love outboard, I really love consoles. I can't live without a DAW. I even mixed a huge overseas project once completely and 100% ITB while sitting in front of the west coasts largest API with flying faders, and at least a hundred K in outboard - only using the 2 track return and main CRM volume to monitor the entire ITB "mix" - as I mixed everything in one PT HD rig out groups digitally into another PT rig for "stems". (Client determined this for me - I would rather have been rocking' the API) For me, 2016 - plugins can't touch the heavy lifting that I need for my mixes to pop the way I want them to. I can and have mixed ITB all day long with everyone else - but no matter what any of the plugin guru's selling wares say, and no matter what the ITB champions say, mixing completely ITB can't touch what happens when you insert 10-15 pieces of outboard gear into your ITB mix and turn off the plugins. For those who have never done it, the difference is not subtle. For those that have, the fire is lit, and there's little chance of going back. Now, there is the issue of recall.......and I'm as locked into it as much as anyone - maybe more because I generally turn out 100-200 pieces of music a year. and don't have the luxury of sitting on any one tune very long. I'm constantly jumping back and forth. I'm lucky though that I've been accumulating outboard gear for 20+ years, so I've got a nice arsenal to patch into a mix. I try to find my personal "sweet spot" on each piece, and unless it's something like a dig verb that has presets that can easily be recalled at the touch of a button, they all tend to stay at the same settings throughout a project and get "driven" by trims before and/or after the hardware insert point, so that I can hit my sweet spots the way I want to . That allows for pretty quick "recalls". Not as quick as booting a pro tools session, but pretty quick, and the difference in sonics make it completely worthwhile for me in all but the most down and dirty mixes. The things that defy "sameness" and the ability to pretty much "stay at the same settings" are of course EQ and also my Silver Bullets - but in the EQ dept, I lean towards detented gear for easy recall. Like API EQ's, (and hopefully a handful of Jeff's new EQ's) and the SB which have detented pots throughout. I take notes on the stuff that gets changed in the comments boxes of the PT mixer. I'm on HDX, so I guess latency is not an issue for me. Never really has been. Just lucky I guess. Now, that said, I love them plugins for a tweak here or there, but I'll be going on Hybrid for the rest of my mixing life unless there is a MAJOR breakthrough in plugin design. Which may happen, but we're not there yet. In 2016, the more plugins you NEED to get your mix into shape, the more things flatten out and the worse things start to sound - from my perspective. (Popular music shows that a LOT of people like flattened out mixes though, so maybe I'm just contrarian....) So all that said - I guess I'm not going to be spending any of my Black Friday funds on plugins this year. A couple of Color palettes, and a couple of Weight Tanks, another SB (void corp edition) or two, and a few undisclosed goodies that are up coming in the near future will be getting my money.... Subscriptions.....eh, not so much.  Don't hate me, it's just my personal unsubstantiated but experienced perspective. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 26, 2016 22:00:06 GMT -6
I must be in bizarro world. Thanks for the insight Bill.
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Post by mulmany on Nov 26, 2016 22:23:41 GMT -6
So, why the liquidation of gear? Did your shoot outs convince you ITB was a good move for you?
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 26, 2016 22:26:55 GMT -6
No doubt it's 90% mental on my part. I'm just used to a certain way of working, and im not a visual person. I feel that looking at a screen hinders my ability to hear and work proficiently and properly. When working on a console - it's hooked up to pt with timecode and I turn off the computer monitor and control everything from the console transport. It's like I'm mixing off tape - and I personally seem to get better results that way. Thats why I wish Slate would do a controler for the VMR. It would be perfect, because the console is more intuitive, and it would be great if the DAW would be intuitive too... someone needs to work on this. |
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 26, 2016 22:48:08 GMT -6
I'm not going to get into any ITB/OTB pissing matches, and I'm not going to post up mixes - this will be my first and last post on this one. My personal $0.02. I've mixed every which way - 4000's, J's, API's Neves, Tridents - LFAC's that cost half a million +, smaller consoles, dirty consoles, clean transparent consoles, Tape, Dig tape, ITB, OTB, Hybrid - you name it. I love plugins, I love outboard, I really love consoles. I can't live without a DAW. I even mixed a huge overseas project once completely and 100% ITB while sitting in front of the west coasts largest API with flying faders, and at least a hundred K in outboard - only using the 2 track return and main CRM volume to monitor the entire ITB "mix" - as I mixed everything in one PT HD rig out groups digitally into another PT rig for "stems". (Client determined this for me - I would rather have been rocking' the API) For me, 2016 - plugins can't touch the heavy lifting that I need for my mixes to pop the way I want them to. I can and have mixed ITB all day long with everyone else - but no matter what any of the plugin guru's selling wares say, and no matter what the ITB champions say, mixing completely ITB can't touch what happens when you insert 10-15 pieces of outboard gear into your ITB mix and turn off the plugins. For those who have never done it, the difference is not subtle. For those that have, the fire is lit, and there's little chance of going back. Now, there is the issue of recall.......and I'm as locked into it as much as anyone - maybe more because I generally turn out 100-200 pieces of music a year. and don't have the luxury of sitting on any one tune very long. I'm constantly jumping back and forth. I'm lucky though that I've been accumulating outboard gear for 20+ years, so I've got a nice arsenal to patch into a mix. I try to find my personal "sweet spot" on each piece, and unless it's something like a dig verb that has presets that can easily be recalled at the touch of a button, they all tend to stay at the same settings throughout a project and get "driven" by trims before and/or after the hardware insert point, so that I can hit my sweet spots the way I want to . That allows for pretty quick "recalls". Not as quick as booting a pro tools session, but pretty quick, and the difference in sonics make it completely worthwhile for me in all but the most down and dirty mixes. The things that defy "sameness" and the ability to pretty much "stay at the same settings" are of course EQ and also my Silver Bullets - but in the EQ dept, I lean towards detented gear for easy recall. Like API EQ's, (and hopefully a handful of Jeff's new EQ's) and the SB which have detented pots throughout. I take notes on the stuff that gets changed in the comments boxes of the PT mixer. I'm on HDX, so I guess latency is not an issue for me. Never really has been. Just lucky I guess. Now, that said, I love them plugins for a tweak here or there, but I'll be going on Hybrid for the rest of my mixing life unless there is a MAJOR breakthrough in plugin design. Which may happen, but we're not there yet. In 2016, the more plugins you NEED to get your mix into shape, the more things flatten out and the worse things start to sound - from my perspective. (Popular music shows that a LOT of people like flattened out mixes though, so maybe I'm just contrarian....) So all that said - I guess I'm not going to be spending any of my Black Friday funds on plugins this year. A couple of Color palettes, and a couple of Weight Tanks, another SB (void corp edition) or two, and a few undisclosed goodies that are up coming in the near future will be getting my money.... Subscriptions.....eh, not so much. Don't hate me, it's just my personal unsubstantiated but experienced perspective. 😅😂😅😂😅  |
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Post by unit7 on Nov 26, 2016 23:50:39 GMT -6
I'm like Eric and Jeremy. When budget doesn't permit I mix ITB. Works fine but not as fun. But if I had to choose between working in a good room/ITB and a bad room with $1.000.000 console/outboard it would have been ITB all the way.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 27, 2016 3:06:05 GMT -6
So, why the liquidation of gear? Did your shoot outs convince you ITB was a good move for you? If you mean my classifieds, I'm currently just trying to get something sold to buy more gear.  |
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Post by stormymondays on Nov 27, 2016 4:05:55 GMT -6
Can't recommend Softube Console 1 enough, specially at the current price. It's got the sonics and it's got the workflow. I think I can work at least 10 times faster than using VMR. Not that speed is the goal, mind you.
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Post by M57 on Nov 27, 2016 5:24:02 GMT -6
Can't recommend Softube Console 1 enough, specially at the current price. It's got the sonics and it's got the workflow. I think I can work at least 10 times faster than using VMR. Not that speed is the goal, mind you. Yeah, my decision was between a purchasing the SC1 and renting the SEB. Both of them are complete but different solutions. The Slate bundle's broader palette of offerings (like the VTM) won out - for now, but I'm already finding myself needing to use Logic's EQ's in conjunction with Slates' to get where I'm trying to go. Strangely, the old-school SEB GUI is proving to have it's advantages and disadvantages. I'm forced to listen differently because I'm not getting as many visual cues. SC1 seems to bridge that gap a little more intuitively. Hmm.. it's tempting to get both with the intention of using the SC1 to guide my primary work-flow, audition all of the Slate plugs for a year, then just buy the 2 or 3 plugs from the SEB that I find indispensable. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 6:03:23 GMT -6
😅😂😅😂😅 wow. really? I thought it was only in the uk people hated others success. I came here to try and learn off the big guys not "Slate" them (gedditt?) bollocks to this...... |
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Post by keymod on Nov 27, 2016 6:39:50 GMT -6
Unless you're actually using tape for capture, then everyone is hybrid to some extent. It looks to me like Harrison Mixbus would be the best ITB experience that would mirror traditional OTB feel. But that's IF they come out with their promised controller.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 27, 2016 7:31:55 GMT -6
Now, if the budget doesn't cut it (60% of the time), I'm mixing at home. 8 Channels of my Apollo 16 > D-Box > EQ > Comp > and a pair of vp-28's on the bus into a Lavry Blue. So by this, your summing 4 stems to the dbox, into a buss eq/Compressor, then capturing. Not running through any hardware for individual channels and stuff. What genre are you mainly working with? Also, I assume the stuff that you're mixing was tracked at the BS using a bunch of hardware and nice stuff? You've probably got a lot if the sound on the way in "going to tape" right? |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 27, 2016 7:36:29 GMT -6
No doubt it's 90% mental on my part. I'm just used to a certain way of working, and im not a visual person. There is no doubt that sitting in front of a console and turning knobs provides a different approach that mixing with a mouse. There is something intuitive about reaching out and twisting the knobs. Having to click and open windows to do what's needed definitely takes some of that away, at least for me. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 27, 2016 7:56:04 GMT -6
Long story short, my living situation is a bit up in the air (good stuff, nothing bad) and may need to shrink my footprint a bit. I'm trying to figure out the best way of doing that. I've got some tracking gear that I need to hang onto and a few 2 buss pieces, but am probably going to start eliminating single channel stuff from my work flow and lean to stems and maybe a couple single channel loops (reamps as wiz calls it) when going OTB. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 27, 2016 9:18:03 GMT -6
I'm going to mix itb totally for a month or two. I've never done it. The Slate for a year at $149.00 is ridiculously low and I've got a bunch of UAD, Waves and Fabfilter plugs So, it's time. I wonder if being able to focus on just one mixer with everything there will be better from a workflow and creativity standpoint. On the other hand, I'm now going to use my hardware to use for tracking. So, we'll see the result.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 27, 2016 10:15:11 GMT -6
Now, if the budget doesn't cut it (60% of the time), I'm mixing at home. 8 Channels of my Apollo 16 > D-Box > EQ > Comp > and a pair of vp-28's on the bus into a Lavry Blue. So by this, your summing 4 stems to the dbox, into a buss eq/Compressor, then capturing. Not running through any hardware for individual channels and stuff. What genre are you mainly working with? Also, I assume the stuff that you're mixing was tracked at the BS using a bunch of hardware and nice stuff? You've probably got a lot if the sound on the way in "going to tape" right? 1/2 are Drums/Perc, 3/4 is Keys and Guitars, 5/6 are FX returns, strings, BGV's, 7 is bass, 8 is vocal. Mostly Folk, Americana, Jazz, Rock. Most jazz stuff is all live everybody in the room at the same time. Those are basically mixed "to tape" and there isnt much that needs to be messed with, I take care of it all on the way in. The other stuff basics are all tracked at the studio, I take it home and edit whatever needs to happen, then go back in and do the final vocal takes with the nice mics and gear. Gtr Odubs and perc I usually take care of at my spot. There have been a few projects where we just camp out for 2 or 3 months and work - which is great, and usually what comes out of that is much better than when you chop up the process and move all over the place. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 27, 2016 12:20:14 GMT -6
SNIP I thought it was only in the uk people hated others success. I came here to try and learn off the big guys not "Slate" them (gedditt?) bollocks to this...... RIP 'Paddy Crunden'. You will be so missed. You contributed so much.... (so much 'bollocks')  |
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