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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 9, 2013 10:22:23 GMT -6
I'm curious to know how those here who have an 1176 use theirs. I've become accustomed to judiciously printing UAD's LA2 plug in when tracking vocals and some compressor plugs like 1176 or Fatso on some guitar tracks, but would like some tips on how to best use the hardware. Currently, I use UAD's Apollo as my interface and Warm Audio's ToneBeast mic pre. I'd like to add some outboard, but want it to integrate easily into my DAW productions. I've had solid results with 1176 on kick, snare, and vocals. For vocals, you can pop it ahead of an LA-2a to catch some peaks and use the LA-2a to follow with some general smoothing. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 9, 2013 14:30:33 GMT -6
Interesting, thanks for that jcoutu1. I've occasionally used two compressors on the vocal track., one for control, the other for tone.
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Post by Ward on Dec 9, 2013 15:50:00 GMT -6
I'm curious to know how those here who have an 1176 use theirs. I've become accustomed to judiciously printing UAD's LA2 plug in when tracking vocals and some compressor plugs like 1176 or Fatso on some guitar tracks, but would like some tips on how to best use the hardware. Currently, I use UAD's Apollo as my interface and Warm Audio's ToneBeast mic pre. I'd like to add some outboard, but want it to integrate easily into my DAW productions. I've had solid results with 1176 on kick, snare, and vocals. For vocals, you can pop it ahead of an LA-2a to catch some peaks and use the LA-2a to follow with some general smoothing. My experiences are not unlike jcoutu1's. I almost always use an 1176 on vocals, however I used it after an LA2a as I like the smoothing properties of an LA2a first in the chain, followed by an 1176 to just catch the big peaks that can occur. And I certainly don't mind using a lot of compression to get a very constant, in your face, smooth vocal recorded. I only have Revision Fs but they work very very well for this. a Rev D is a different animal, to some extent. It is a class-a biased output amp as opposed to the Rev F/G/H's Class AB push-pull design. So a Rev D has lower output, but in the case of using it as the last in a chain before the converter/DAW, there is more than enough output there anyhow. I am also fond of an 1176 on snare drum recordings. Typically, I record 2 snare tracks and use a small amount of compression on each of the two top mics, AKG c460 condensor and Telefunken M80 dynamic. peaks are getting 6-8 db of compression and general program material is getting 1 to 2 db of compression. It rounds it out very nicely and prevents overs (or unders, if you know what I mean). Recording with compression is something I do much more of using a DAW (PTHD in my case) than I ever did with tape. There is no tape compression to rely on an I only used to use a comp or two on vocals or things that were really dynamic to the point where I could not rely on tape compression to really mae that much of a difference. Now, I track with compression almost as my default technique. Snares get 1176, vocals get LA2a/1176 or CL1b sometimes with 1176, guitars get LA3a, bass gets an LA4, percussion often gets a grace 102, when I need grungier I draw upon a Drawmer 1960, etc etc etc. This doesn't preclude the need for EQ but does keep things under control going into PT and that makes life much easier coming out of it. Tracking with compression delivers a better recorded result, and that's what we're all after anyhow. A better recorded result is a better mixed result. And software plug-in equivalents are NOT equivalent to the real thing. If you're tracking you want someone else to hear, you should have an 1176 and an LA2a to start with. The others like the CL1b, LA3a and LA4 are pretty much the next standards on the list. Comps like Germaniums, Fatsos, distressors and that ilk may be more flexible but the studio standards are really good at what they do and the standard applications we all talk about consistently have become consistent standards over time for an important reason: They work. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 23, 2013 22:17:38 GMT -6
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Post by noah shain on Dec 25, 2013 14:18:08 GMT -6
I'm curious to know how those here who have an 1176 use theirs. I've become accustomed to judiciously printing UAD's LA2 plug in when tracking vocals and some compressor plugs like 1176 or Fatso on some guitar tracks, but would like some tips on how to best use the hardware. Currently, I use UAD's Apollo as my interface and Warm Audio's ToneBeast mic pre. I'd like to add some outboard, but want it to integrate easily into my DAW productions. I get good results going through a distressor to hit peaks 1-3 db before an 1176 12 or 20:1 attack 3ish/release 7ish hitting hard...up to 20 db reduction on loud sections. Can sound pretty dang "mix ready". |
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Post by levon on Jan 4, 2014 4:00:18 GMT -6
Thomann Germany finally listed it, so I put my order in. Hope one will make it's way over soon.  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 4, 2014 8:16:21 GMT -6
Cool, I know Bryce Young, and he's a stand up guy, whatever he makes will do what he says it will. He's not corporate, just a hardworking, reliable, cool cat, who loves music and gear.
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Post by levon on Jan 5, 2014 4:02:08 GMT -6
Yes, I talked to Bryce on the other site, wish he would also come over here.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 5, 2014 9:27:54 GMT -6
I think he's just very tight for time, and spreading himself out as best he can. He'll probably drop by at some point.
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Post by svart on Jan 6, 2014 12:37:17 GMT -6
Looks cool. Gonna be hard to beat.
However.. It's going to have to be a tweaked design soon. The 2n5457 is obsoleted now..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 13:29:15 GMT -6
a big part of the sound are the transformers. I was talking with ruckus about this unit and he mentioned that the transformers are wrong, compared to a real 1176. Also, there's no ground path to the outside world. Summary: you get what you pay for, and keep in mind how a lot of those lindell units are breaking and they were equally cheap. Wait for someone else to buy it, and then have 'em open it up and look at the guts to see where they cut costs.
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Post by Ward on Jan 7, 2014 15:33:14 GMT -6
When bolted into a rack with metal rails, the lack of a distinct "earth" will not make any difference because all grounds are tied together on the chassis of all units present. As long as one unit in your rack has a three prong IEC power cable, and is attached to the rack rails, all other units can ground that way also. They piggy-back. You don't need to worry about that. In terms of balanced grounded audio lines, a lot of guys "cut" the ground anyhow on at least the output lines from racked gear.
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Post by levon on Jan 12, 2014 4:45:20 GMT -6
a big part of the sound are the transformers. I was talking with ruckus about this unit and he mentioned that the transformers are wrong, compared to a real 1176. Also, there's no ground path to the outside world. Summary: you get what you pay for, and keep in mind how a lot of those lindell units are breaking and they were equally cheap. Wait for someone else to buy it, and then have 'em open it up and look at the guts to see where they cut costs. Mat, just a quick question, what would be the right trannies to get close to the Urei sound? Anybody else knows? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 12, 2014 9:12:36 GMT -6
Matkat, what do you mean by "wrong"? Here's as much info as I could get, but from what I can tell, the transformers are as right as they can be, based upon the original Urei version. I'm really not sure about the Urei, but I think the guy who owns Cinemag owns the patents or rights, I believe it was his father's company that made the originals. I believe Warm Audio had these made to the original specs. I could be completely wrong though, and I will try to get more info if I can. This was at the other site, with some quotes of Bryce's from Warm Audio. The WA76 Limiting Amplifier is a modern reproduction of the Classic 1176 Revision D. Every effort was made to remain faithful to the original designs including the use of Reichenbach Engineering’s (now CineMag) transformer design that was originally used. The classic 1176 was a major breakthrough in limiter technology — the first true peak limiter with all transistor circuitry offering superior performance with a signature sound — and set the standard for all limiters to follow. The ultra-fast attack time and trademark sound have lured legendary artists and studio moguls alike to the 1176 — Peter Frampton, Joe Satriani, Joe Chiccarelli, Vance Powell, and Mike Elizondo are just a few names on a list that’s continued to grow, for nearly 50 years. "I am asked often how Warm Audio is able to produce such high quality gear at affordable prices. Many assume we must be cutting corners on the designs themselves but my answer to this question continues to be “NO”. Warm Audio stays true to original discrete schematics and does this without cheapening components such as our continued use of world class Reichenbach/CineMag transformers." A few reasons we’re able to do this: - There is only one total employee/owner, so overhead costs are very low. - We manufacture in very high quantities, usually at least 500 pieces at a time. We receive extreme quantity breaks from both our assembly house and CineMag transformers for this. - We do not make much profit off of each unit, but sell quite a few units. I started the company more out of passion than for the desire to turn huge profits. I enjoy shaking the price floor of this industry a bit where prices in many cases are just too high in my opinion. - Because our products are so impressive at their respective price points, word of mouth spreads the word. This leaves little work for us to do to promote and sell the products. Specs: True to the Classic 1176 compressor in design and performance Completely discrete signal path Modeled after the D revision Utilizes USA made CINEMAG input and output transformers Supports the famous “all buttons in” ratio setting Ultra fast attack time Class A line level output amplifier Input impedance - 600 ohms, bridges-T control (floating) Frequency Response ± 1 dB 20 Hz to 20kHz XLR and TRS inputs. XLR and TRS outputs 55db of gain Less than 0.4% total harmonic distortion from 50 Hz to 20 kHz with limiting Signal to noise ratio is greater than 74 dB at +25 dBm EIN -104.1 dbm Attack time, 20 microseconds to 800 microseconds Release time, 50 milliseconds to 1 second Meter provides dB gain reduction and dB output Internal power supply, external 24v AC power transformer 19" Rackmount chassis, 2U 1-year warranty -23db pad switch on the backside (t's helpful when running a high-gain mic pre without output control (like the WA12) into the WA76. It gives you more flexibility/rotation out of the input/compression knob since the signal won't hit the compression threshold as quickly.) Price is $599 US, 649 Euro inc VAT in Europe and 549GBP inc VAT in the UK. But for now, here ya go..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 12, 2014 9:39:31 GMT -6
Just got this at the site that can't be named.. Quote is from Warm Audio:
- CineMag transformers in and out. Same Reichenbach engineering output transformer design as original UREI version (CineMag now owns Reichenbach).
- Rev D
- High quality discrete signal path, even going the extra mile with some parts, including tantalum capacitors etc...
- YES, it can do the "all in limiting" --- some of you know what I'm talking about
- Power supply is internal (like all of our products) power transformer external (as usual) it will not be a "wall wart" style but "line lump" so it doesn't block space at the AC outlet like the WA12 power transformer does..
- It is extremely musical, but still very transparent, the transformers hold up nicely when pushed. I've run some intense compression and it doesn't sound "squashed" or "gross" even with drastic 20-25db's of co
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Post by levon on Jan 12, 2014 10:35:06 GMT -6
What MJB says is what's my understanding too. So what's wrong about the trannies?
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Post by Ward on Jan 12, 2014 11:05:29 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with trannies, man,if that's what you're into. Live and let live, I say.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 12, 2014 11:33:13 GMT -6
Matkat mentioned ruckus said the transformers were "wrong", I'm just curious what he meant, a little classification if you will.
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Post by petersongoodwyn on Jan 12, 2014 14:23:03 GMT -6
When bolted into a rack with metal rails, the lack of a distinct "earth" will not make any difference because all grounds are tied together on the chassis of all units present. As long as one unit in your rack has a three prong IEC power cable, and is attached to the rack rails, all other units can ground that way also. They piggy-back. You don't need to worry about that. In terms of balanced grounded audio lines, a lot of guys "cut" the ground anyhow on at least the output lines from racked gear. That would be true if every unit in the rack were not anodized or powder coated. Both are common finishes for front panels as well as essentially perfect insulators. Regardless, the main, safety purpose of the IEC ground prong is to provide a rock-solid, low-impedance path for stray currents to reach the ground. That is, a better path than a human body. The balanced audio ground path performs the same function but for much smaller currents, so that the main risk eliminated is noise, not bodily harm. Anyhow, both using the rack rails to provide chassis ground and cutting the balanced output ground are band-aids for improper grounding. I have no knowledge of the Warm Audio units themselves so I'm speaking about grounding in general, not as it applies to the WA76. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 12, 2014 15:01:50 GMT -6
When bolted into a rack with metal rails, the lack of a distinct "earth" will not make any difference because all grounds are tied together on the chassis of all units present. As long as one unit in your rack has a three prong IEC power cable, and is attached to the rack rails, all other units can ground that way also. They piggy-back. You don't need to worry about that. In terms of balanced grounded audio lines, a lot of guys "cut" the ground anyhow on at least the output lines from racked gear. That would be true if every unit in the rack were not anodized or powder coated. Both are common finishes for front panels as well as essentially perfect insulators. Regardless, the main, safety purpose of the IEC ground prong is to provide a rock-solid, low-impedance path for stray currents to reach the ground. That is, a better path than a human body. The balanced audio ground path performs the same function but for much smaller currents, so that the main risk eliminated is noise, not bodily harm. Anyhow, both using the rack rails to provide chassis ground and cutting the balanced output ground are band-aids for improper grounding. I have no knowledge of the Warm Audio units themselves so I'm speaking about grounding in general, not as it applies to the WA76. thanks for being here! |
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Post by Ward on Jan 12, 2014 15:04:15 GMT -6
When bolted into a rack with metal rails, the lack of a distinct "earth" will not make any difference because all grounds are tied together on the chassis of all units present. As long as one unit in your rack has a three prong IEC power cable, and is attached to the rack rails, all other units can ground that way also. They piggy-back. You don't need to worry about that. In terms of balanced grounded audio lines, a lot of guys "cut" the ground anyhow on at least the output lines from racked gear. That would be true if every unit in the rack were not anodized or powder coated. Both are common finishes for front panels as well as essentially perfect insulators. Regardless, the main, safety purpose of the IEC ground prong is to provide a rock-solid, low-impedance path for stray currents to reach the ground. That is, a better path than a human body. The balanced audio ground path performs the same function but for much smaller currents, so that the main risk eliminated is noise, not bodily harm. Anyhow, both using the rack rails to provide chassis ground and cutting the balanced output ground are band-aids for improper grounding. I have no knowledge of the Warm Audio units themselves so I'm speaking about grounding in general, not as it applies to the WA76. Whilst the front of the panels may be coated, in most cases, the backs on the front panels (which connect to the rack rails) are not. This would provide a common shared grounding path, would it not? |
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Post by horvitz on Jan 12, 2014 15:19:59 GMT -6
Thinking about it, I think a quality product is certainly possible for $600. No reason to cut any corners at all. Margins would definitely be slim but for a 1 man shop, if the design is real smart, you can really minimize your assembly time. Make it all modular with pre-made cables so it's just screw it together and plug it in. You just need to be bold enough to put up the $100k or whatever to dive in. I'm sure these will do well. Would love to see some gut shots.
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Post by petersongoodwyn on Jan 12, 2014 15:29:29 GMT -6
Thanks! Glad to be here. Brian, I agree, it's a totally doable price point if you don't have distributors or dealers and you're making 500 at a time. By the time most gear gets from the manufacturer to the customer, it's been marked up 500%. Even if Warm were only selling at a (slim) markup of 200%, his parts cost could be significantly higher than, say, Universal Audio's. |
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Post by petersongoodwyn on Jan 12, 2014 15:36:34 GMT -6
That would be true if every unit in the rack were not anodized or powder coated. Both are common finishes for front panels as well as essentially perfect insulators. Regardless, the main, safety purpose of the IEC ground prong is to provide a rock-solid, low-impedance path for stray currents to reach the ground. That is, a better path than a human body. The balanced audio ground path performs the same function but for much smaller currents, so that the main risk eliminated is noise, not bodily harm. Anyhow, both using the rack rails to provide chassis ground and cutting the balanced output ground are band-aids for improper grounding. I have no knowledge of the Warm Audio units themselves so I'm speaking about grounding in general, not as it applies to the WA76. Whilst the front of the panels may be coated, in most cases, the backs on the front panels (which connect to the rack rails) are not. This would provide a common shared grounding path, would it not? Anodizing is a dipping process, so while only the front of the panel may be "finished" (brushed, blasted, etc.), both sides will have the insulating oxide layer. Most power coated panels I see are coated front and back. There may be some that are not, but my sense is that that's the exception. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 12, 2014 15:39:59 GMT -6
So, what's the biggest drawback to selling direct? Don't mean to derail the thread, just wondering why more don't do it in order to keep the end-user's price down. Maybe raising the price and getting it to a big box retailer benefits because you sell more...but I appreciate people keeping the price down while still making themselves good profits...
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