ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,954
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2016 13:20:15 GMT -6
Will be back with a reply to this thread. As a T-Funk fan and owner of many T-Funk microphones, I am very interested in the company's weighing in on this!! I agree, I do hope though they will be honest, their is no problem with using OEM where it is efficient, add in the fact that the original Telefunken was a distributor not a manufacturer of mics. The Holy grail of Tfunk, the 251, was a specialty OEM piece, it would be historically correct to go OEM!π My other question if Tfunk is still racing Porches, will I find one if I stop at my old freinds at Kelley Moss?
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Post by gouge on Dec 14, 2016 20:37:56 GMT -6
my popcorn is getting cold.
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Post by telefunkenlab on Dec 15, 2016 10:29:12 GMT -6
Hello to all! Sorry for the delay, it's been extremely busy around here. We are in the midst of holiday madness and also trying to manage a building expansion at the same time. So a little late to the party, looks like svart already did his investigating. Yes, the M80 + M81 mics are built around nonproprietary mechanical parts, manufactured in China. But, "sadly", as you have discovered, other key components are not identical to the "Swamp PM05" you bought. We have a custom-wound transformer made for us by a US-based magnetics company, and apparently the PM05 uses a different voice coil as well (I wouldn't have known what is in a pre-fab PM05, honestly). Even if you did find a voice coil in there that looked the same, it likely wouldn't be. We order them to our output impedance spec to mate with our output transformer, the relationship of which yields the unique frequency response of our M80/M81. We did originally use an AMI transformer for the first several years of M80 production. However, our business relationship with Oliver Archut and AMI came to an end in 2009, and as a result we sourced new transformers for the M80, AK-47 (which was concurrently re-designed to its current "MkII" form), ELA M 260; and the M16 MkII was retired and replaced by the AR-51. These condenser mics listed were all Oliver designed circuit layouts and were to exclusively use AMI transformers, so when the transformers changed we had to redesign all the boards to follow suit with the severance. Yes, everybody knows of the original 460/M16 fiasco, and believe me nobody here has forgotten about it either. It is our shame to carry, and although I cringe every time it's brought back up, we fully understand why it's not allowed to go away. It was a terrible business decision and we have used that as a lesson in our design and build process ever since. In the 10 years since then many folks have forgiven, some forgotten, but unfortunately (for us) some have done neither. What can we do but continue on? If, in the eyes of the reader, we've earned the benefit of the doubt in the years since, then please read on. A statement such as: "Yeah, Alctron is the supplier for all their 'cheaper' mics " is such a massive oversimplification I'm not sure where to start. First and foremost, NONE of our microphones are "made in China", and NONE of our microphones are stock from any OEM. They are all, at the very least, assembled and soldered by hand in our CT facility and individually tested & listened to by a real human. There are obvious parts, as revealed in this thread for example, that are sourced from major Chinese OEM companies. We source the capsules in the RFT mics (AK-47, AR-51, CU-29, 260) from various reputable overseas suppliers and mate them with our circuit designs. The power supplies and most of the metalwork for these lines are sourced overseas as well. Rigorous QC and component testing takes place before anything is ready to be assembled into a mic. Our mics are highlighted by NOS American & European tubes, premium polystyrene capacitors, and high quality output transformers by the likes of Lundahl, Haufe, and more. As far as revealing specific OEM sources for specific parts, it's something we've never done and really don't plan to do either. This is in no way intended to be a deceptive practice, but rather as a protective measure against our ever-evolving and growing competition. With no disrespect intended towards this forum, here is a link to a post I made on Gearslutz about a year ago addressing most of these same concerns about our parts sources and manufacturing practices, with some more details and also photos of our production facility. www.gearslutz.com/board/11533806-post59.htmlThank you all for reading, and thank you for those who use and appreciate our products in the field. Happy holidays everyone! -Ian
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Post by jakeharris on Dec 15, 2016 13:32:26 GMT -6
If we keep things in context, it was a pretty innocuous statement. Another poster said 'I wonder if T-funken uses Alctron to supply them..', to which was replied 'Yeah, Alctron is the supplier for all their 'cheaper' mics'. It's really not that interesting or revealing either: OEM sourcing is just shrugged off with other brands, but from the reaction on this thread, you are indeed held to a different standard. I'm sure everyone has their own opinion on whether that's justified.
NB: the only part that's obviously not from Alctron, is the AR-51's capsule... That's the same as that overpriced RK12 capsule sold online, sourced from ISK in China.
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Post by Ward on Dec 15, 2016 13:36:19 GMT -6
NB: the only part that's obviously not from Alctron, is the AR-51's capsule... That's the same as that overpriced RK12 capsule sold online, sourced from ISK in China. OUCH!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 15, 2016 16:35:31 GMT -6
I don't mean to start anything but when the copperhead mic sounds better than the ak47mk2 and ar51with isk rk12ck13 capsule ( whatever the new capsule is ) and is priced lower than both says something. The copperhead also costs around the price of the miktek cv4, +/- 200 and the copperhead is cardioid only. The miktek cv3 which is cheaper than the copperhead sounds amazing and has varibale polar patterns to boot. Considering what the price is for these RFT mics, ($2000) I really do appreciate the honesty from T funk Lab. T funk lab response to me was honest π even though it did sound politician like and not wanting to give the whole truth π still enough truth for us here at RGO to make an informative decision regarding purchasing the lower tier TFunk mics You know TFunk would crush if they developed their own capsules for their lower tier RFT models. Still sourcing Oem capsules is not what I want when paying $2000 for an AR-51... ( that's how I read the response, all RFT and lower are non proprietary) Definition: yes I had to look it up.... π Non-proprietary - (especially of computer hardware or software) conforming to standards that are in the public domain or are widely licensed, and so not restricted to one manufacturer. not registered or protected as a trademark or brand name; generic.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 15, 2016 17:14:15 GMT -6
I've heard their midrange mics in an online video shootout, and I have to say I was reasonably impressed. I think Warren Dent did the video.
I deeply lust after the incredibly expensive ELA M 251, which given the price and the fact that people are buying it, I think says something.
I also appreciated the seemingly transparent response, and pictures of people hard at work here in the good ole'd USofA. I'm sure whatever parts they are sourcing are good stuff.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 16, 2016 11:14:23 GMT -6
I've heard their midrange mics in an online video shootout, and I have to say I was reasonably impressed. I think Warren Dent did the video. I deeply lust after the incredibly expensive ELA M 251, which given the price and the fact that people are buying it, I think says something. I also appreciated the seemingly transparent response, and pictures of people hard at work here in the good ole'd USofA. I'm sure whatever parts they are sourcing are good stuff. The price of their 251 replica clone is very high considering the price point of the Upton,Chandler, and Flea mics. Also, the Upton 251 reissue replica clone sounds amazing as well for a lot less $ (1/2). We heard those Upton mics against "Dolly" and according to Sinsay ( not involved in shootout ) the mic god, "Dolly" is one of the most pure representations of the real 250/251 heritage and pedigree and the Upton was neck and neck and a lot of us here on RGO agreedπ Yes, it would have been cool to have a new TFunk version included with that shootout ( or a future one ) but beggars like me can't be choosy when it comes to this info. For my $ and peace of mind, 2 Upton 251's ( yes 2 ) would be absolutely amazing versus one TFunk 251, or an Upton and Chandler or almost 3 Flea..... What could Sinsay whip up with $9500-$10,000? What makes the TFunk mic cost that much more? parts/ components/ labor? $9500-$10,000 is vintage u67, m49 territory dam near....
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Post by Guitar on Dec 16, 2016 11:25:04 GMT -6
I'm not really sure how they set their prices, but in my listenings, the T-Funk reissue has been the one to beat for my ears. I need to find that thread you're talking about, I haven't seen it yet.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 16, 2016 11:37:48 GMT -6
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Post by scumbum on Jan 2, 2017 10:49:11 GMT -6
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