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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 12, 2014 21:12:44 GMT -6
I'll try that on the 2 buss...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 12, 2014 22:24:12 GMT -6
I have this thing with Preamps, I don't do alot of tracking, but when I have been brought in to what people call a "Studio" and turns out to be the small bedroom, or even a real studio I Seldom find 8 of the same pre amp for drums.
After I bought my first 2 ch Dan Alexander (Neve 1272 clone with real old Neve Iron) I had to have 8 Channels.
I have added 5 of Jeff's VP26s with red dots for that old API sound so far.
The Heiders Scare the crap out of me, I know 8 won't be enough and I had that money budgeted for other things but I know if I pull the Trigger on one Ill end up with a rack full!
Jeff I hate you
No I mean I love you man, bank acct hates you!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 12, 2014 23:00:06 GMT -6
I have this thing with Preamps, I don't do alot of tracking, but when I have been brought in to what people call a "Studio" and turns out to be the small bedroom, or even a real studio I Seldom find 8 of the same pre amp for drums.
After I bought my first 2 ch Dan Alexander (Neve 1272 clone with real old Neve Iron) I had to have 8 Channels.I have added 5 of Jeff's VP26s with red dots for that old API sound so far. The Heiders Scare the crap out of me, I know 8 won't be enough and I had that money budgeted for other things but I know if I pull the Trigger on one Ill end up with a rack full! Jeff I hate you No I mean I love you man, bank acct hates you! There is something to be said for having enough of the same make pre amps to track all your stuff(a console), it seems to leave it's finger print as a whole, a bit more identifiable than mixing pre's up ime. |
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Post by caborobo on Oct 3, 2014 11:38:10 GMT -6
The new Heider video is up with studio ace Randy Kohrs. Amazing tone he's getting on his dobro with the Heiders.
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Post by caborobo on Oct 3, 2014 11:40:45 GMT -6
Check out our new Heider pre video with studio ace Randy Kohrs. His resonator tone is crazy good using the Heider pre's.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 3, 2014 11:59:50 GMT -6
Most excellent, Randy, u kickass bromee! And Jeff's stuff is second to none imo
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 3, 2014 15:10:17 GMT -6
Punchy is definitely the word for this pre.
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Post by jsteiger on Oct 4, 2014 19:11:42 GMT -6
Randge is a bad, bad man. This was actually filmed about a year ago so his beard is much longer now!
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Post by Randge on Oct 4, 2014 22:43:10 GMT -6
Thanks, fellas! Jeff, you have a magic pre, no doubt. Glad to see the success!
R
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Post by channelcat on Oct 6, 2014 17:17:56 GMT -6
The consoles were built before Frank started using API amplifiers. There was an outboard API 550 or 550A normalled into each console channel. All tube consoles used passive summing with cascaded line stages combining groups of inputs. I think the Heider consoles combined groups of four inputs. The idea is to never let the signal level go below the level it entered the console at. Bob: I was just rereading a lot of posts/articles/interviews about WHR San Francisco yesterday (partly in an effort to find your quote above). Do you recall if the early De Medio custom board in Studio C (SF) (circa '69-'71) was based on the UA 610 or 1108 modules? The early pictures of the Studio C board don't look like the 610 board from the mobile truck, which makes me think they were possibly put together from 1108 cards. In addition, I thought they had UA 550-A Filters, not API 550A EQs. Also, do you have any recollection of the dimensions of Studio C (control room and live room)? Everything I read said that the live room was roughly the same size as the the one in Studio 3 (LA), however no one actually mentions the dimensions of either room. Pretty frustrating! I should've asked Bill Halverson when I seconded for him at Dark Horse, but didn't want to monopolize his time and distract from the session at hand. Any light you can shine on any or all of this would be greatly appreciated. I'm truly thankful for your participation on this and "the other" forum. Thanks, Stu |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 7, 2014 0:27:10 GMT -6
I don't know the number but it was UREI solid state cards, probably 1108. They had little cheesy UREI equalizers in the console but an API 550 was normaled into every input as was a UREI passive eq if I remember correctly. The 550s were added after the UREIs. I went right out and bought a pair because it replaced the Langevin (aka Motown) graphic in my life.
610s had a pretty bad reputation with everybody I knew who had worked for United Western. Watching people so excited about them today is kind of bizarre.
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Post by wiz on Oct 7, 2014 0:48:30 GMT -6
The new Heider video is up with studio ace Randy Kohrs. Amazing tone he's getting on his dobro with the Heiders. Sounds great and that guy is a great player |
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Post by wiz on Oct 7, 2014 0:49:36 GMT -6
I didn't realise randge was the guy in the video....
8)
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Post by channelcat on Oct 7, 2014 5:30:25 GMT -6
I don't know the number but it was UREI solid state cards, probably 1108. They had little cheesy UREI equalizers in the console but an API 550 was normaled into every input as was a UREI passive eq if I remember correctly. The 550s were added after the UREIs. I went right out and bought a pair because it replaced the Langevin (aka Motown) graphic in my life. 610s had a pretty bad reputation with everybody I knew who had worked for United Western. Watching people so excited about them today is kind of bizarre. Big thanks, Bob! Right after I posted, I did a google search to check the spelling of Frank's last name, and came across Stephen Barncard's site. He also mentioned the 24 channels of API 550s, as well as had a cool pic of the rack of UA 550-As. Was UA/UREI in anyway affiliated with API? They share some model numbers, like 550-A/550A and 565, for their EQs/filter sets. I'm glad you brought up the 610 rep thing, because that was the other quote I was looking for; I couldn't remember if it came from you or someone else. Thanks again, Stu PS - jsteiger, sorry for the hijack...just trying to squeeze in a history lesson! |
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Post by jsteiger on Oct 7, 2014 7:22:46 GMT -6
I don't know the number but it was UREI solid state cards, probably 1108. They had little cheesy UREI equalizers in the console but an API 550 was normaled into every input as was a UREI passive eq if I remember correctly. The 550s were added after the UREIs. I went right out and bought a pair because it replaced the Langevin (aka Motown) graphic in my life. 610s had a pretty bad reputation with everybody I knew who had worked for United Western. Watching people so excited about them today is kind of bizarre. Big thanks, Bob! Right after I posted, I did a google search to check the spelling of Frank's last name, and came across Stephen Barncard's site. He also mentioned the 24 channels of API 550s, as well as had a cool pic of the rack of UA 550-As. Was UA/UREI in anyway affiliated with API? They share some model numbers, like 550-A/550A and 565, for their EQs/filter sets. I'm glad you brought up the 610 rep thing, because that was the other quote I was looking for; I couldn't remember if it came from you or someone else. Thanks again, Stu PS - jsteiger, sorry for the hijack...just trying to squeeze in a history lesson! Its all good! Don't stop on my account. I am following along. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 7, 2014 8:44:27 GMT -6
No connection except that API made cards that were interchangeable with the UREIs and considered a big upgrade if you swapped in better transformers because APIs were crap. I'd understood the output transformers were changed in a number of Frank's consoles too. The CBS console I saw in San Francisco also used the UREI cards. Tube consoles were not very practical above 12 channels.
Deane Jensen was chief engineer of Electrodyne which Reichenbach Engineering was also part of. He started his business selling Reichenbach Engineering upgrades for API consoles under his own name. Prior to the mid '70s all recording consoles were custom built and there was a big market for modules.
Frank DeMedio and Bob Bushnell worked in the shop at United Western. Bob told me they both got into the console business at the urging of Bill Putnam because he was afraid of taking on the potential liability issues if a console failed on an important session. Back then most sessions were union and studios were expected to pay the musicians should there be any down time. That's why no studio had just one of anything.
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Post by channelcat on Oct 19, 2014 17:43:15 GMT -6
No connection except that API made cards that were interchangeable with the UREIs and considered a big upgrade if you swapped in better transformers because APIs were crap. I'd understood the output transformers were changed in a number of Frank's consoles too. The CBS console I saw in San Francisco also used the UREI cards. Tube consoles were not very practical above 12 channels. Deane Jensen was chief engineer of Electrodyne which Reichenbach Engineering was also part of. He started his business selling Reichenbach Engineering upgrades for API consoles under his own name. Prior to the mid '70s all recording consoles were custom built and there was a big market for modules. Frank DeMedio and Bob Bushnell worked in the shop at United Western. Bob told me they both got into the console business at the urging of Bill Putnam because he was afraid of taking on the potential liability issues if a console failed on an important session. Back then most sessions were union and studios were expected to pay the musicians should there be any down time. That's why no studio had just one of anything. Two weeks later, and I'm still researching Wally! I worked backwards from Studio C in SF to Studio 3 in LA to Putnam's Western Studio 3 in LA, with detours through Coast Recorders, Sunset Sound, and Cello/EastWest among others. I finally got partial dimensions of the live room in Studio C, which is based on Studio 3 in LA, which was copied from Western Studio 3; it's @ 34' x 14' or 31' x 15' with what appears to be @ an 18' ceiling. I also tracked down some good pics from Hyde Street Studio C's Facebook page. I'm pretty sure the "cheesy" console EQs were 508s. Like Bob said, the UA 550-As and API 550As were the real workhorses. It seems that SM56s, Sony C-37As, U87s (new at the time @ '67/'68), and U47s were the most popular mics. After all this research, I'm really hoping someone starts cloning the C-37A. Bob, were you still working in San Francisco when they transitioned from the De Medio/UA board to the De Medio/API board (that Jeff's FD312 is based on)? Was there a big sonic difference. All of the descriptors that I've seen for the 1108 (and to a lesser extent the 2108 reissue) seem to align with what people are saying here about the FD312. Thanks again, Stu |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 19, 2014 19:26:21 GMT -6
As far as I know WHR in SF never had API mike preamps. The console Frank built for Graham Nash did but his studio was really too different acoustically to compare. I also remember that at least some of the Wally Heider console APIs were 550s and not 550As. Also after Wally was out of the picture studio C got changed acoustically so you can't go by current pictures. I didn't personally think it was an improvement but I didn't work there very much because I was off in electronic music land.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2014 19:46:33 GMT -6
Sony still has the capsules as repair parts I'm told, The folks at Jospheson have a nice take on the vintage Sony Capsule as well so it comes down to the Transformer and getting the headbasket and body right.
Do love the Sonys, and by today's standards while they have gone up in price it's not as of yet, used car money.
The Sony FETS are a weird market, For a while you will find 37/38 selling for $500-700 and 48s Around $800-1000 then suddenly they switch.
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Post by channelcat on Oct 21, 2014 12:33:43 GMT -6
As far as I know WHR in SF never had API mike preamps. The console Frank built for Graham Nash did but his studio was really too different acoustically to compare. I also remember that at least some of the Wally Heider console APIs were 550s and not 550As. Also after Wally was out of the picture studio C got changed acoustically so you can't go by current pictures. I didn't personally think it was an improvement but I didn't work there very much because I was off in electronic music land. Thanks for the clarification. I incorrectly assumed that Wally upgraded from the De Medio/UA boards to the De Medio/API boards in both LA and SF. Now thinking about it logically (ie sans CC&Coke), I think Studio 4 in LA was the last to be completed, which would've been @ '71/'72, so it was probably more a matter of using what was readily available at the time. Enter the API that Frank modded. I also remember reading that he did try to get funding to do some upgrades @ this period, but was turned down, which ultimately lead to him selling the business. By the way, I think it's great that he started with Studio 3 (tribute/direct competion to Western Studio 3), then built Studio 1 and Studio 4, but never built a Studio 2! Regading the renovation you mentioned, the pics I saw still showed the awning over the control room window in the live room and what appear to be original parquet floors. These were the only pics I could find that showed the room relatively empty; they were the first posts on the Studio C Facebook page (@ 2010 if I remember correctly). But I think Wally left around '90, so the renovation must've occurred sometime in that 20-yr period. At least the "wheat chex" acoustical panels were gone in these pics. Do you recall if they had UA 175s or 176s in SF? I thought I saw part of one in a pic, but it very well could've been a 550-A (both 2RU w/ similar knobs)? I haven't seen reference to them anywhere in my research, but I can't believe Wally wouldn't have one or two, since he was such a fan of Putnam's designs. Stu |
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Post by channelcat on Oct 21, 2014 12:46:01 GMT -6
Sony still has the capsules as repair parts I'm told, The folks at Jospheson have a nice take on the vintage Sony Capsule as well so it comes down to the Transformer and getting the headbasket and body right. Do love the Sonys, and by today's standards while they have gone up in price it's not as of yet, used car money. The Sony FETS are a weird market, For a while you will find 37/38 selling for $500-700 and 48s Around $800-1000 then suddenly they switch. I should've specified C-37A (the original tube version); I've corrected it in my post above. Apparently, the C-800 (not the C-800G), released in the early '90s, was sort of Sony's take on a C-37A reissue, with similar sound and components, but in a fancy new body. I've read that the Josephson C715 has a similar capsule, and may be in the same family sonically, but it is a FET mic (and way more than I want to spend). Stu |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 21, 2014 16:51:14 GMT -6
That's the new decor. The old was carpeted and the wall treatment was little square tiles. I never got the idea Wally was a particular fan of Putnam's electronics. He saw himself as in the real estate business so he got whatever the clients wanted. The LA studios probably switched to the APIs when they went 24 track. The San Francisco studios, being newer, probably could just more easily be expanded. I never saw a 175/176 until I came to Nashville!
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Post by unit7 on Nov 21, 2014 11:15:05 GMT -6
On my way to the post office as my Heider has arrived! Really look forward to a major test of preamps sometime before Xmas. Already talked to a drummer and a guitar player that wanted to join.
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Post by odyssey76 on Nov 21, 2014 13:08:59 GMT -6
On my way to the post office as my Heider has arrived! Really look forward to a major test of preamps sometime before Xmas. Already talked to a drummer and a guitar player that wanted to join. Please report back! There's never been a negative review that I've read, and I've only ever seen 1 used! Would love to have a pair, congrats! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Nov 21, 2014 15:41:54 GMT -6
On my way to the post office as my Heider has arrived! Really look forward to a major test of preamps sometime before Xmas. Already talked to a drummer and a guitar player that wanted to join. Please report back! There's never been a negative review that I've read, and I've only ever seen 1 used! Would love to have a pair, congrats! That is what scares me ! |
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